Another engine oil thread. Castrol Edge/Pennzoil/ Liqui Moly?

[FrankMstein]

I was cornered by the Liqui Mud guy over the W/E and wow did I get an ear full...

[rsyring]

I recently wanted to figure out what oil to use for my F80 b/c I want to start going to the track 1-2 times per month. Reading through this thread was...rough. There is just so much data. In order to help me sift through it, I copied quotes and replies (mostly from edycol, but sometimes from others) and saved them to a single document. If you'd like to take a look at that, you can find that here:

https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Engine...7BHPzMcG47fAvV

I tried to keep track of page numbers but lost my way sometimes and then realized those numbers are completely dependent on what your "posts per page" is set to, so not the same for everyone. Well, it's a rough draft anyway.

edycol I see that you have mentioned putting together a summary post. I'm a software developer and I'm wondering if I could use that info and put together a simple website that would act as a summary for all this information and be easy for us to keep updated and post references to. Might include an FAQ page too. If interested, let me know (DM or randy@syrings.us), and I can walk you through how I'd set it up so it's easy to update with new info and receive suggestions/questions to keep it relevant. If there is enough interest, I might even be able to create a "oil recommendation" app as part of that site that would ask a few questions about engine type, warranty status, track usage, OCI preference, and then recommend an oil accordingly.

[f80.james]

rsyring
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1889382

There's a whole essay written by Edycol on this thread too. If you dont mind including that into the dropbox for added context.

[hellokitty]

Quaker State Euro 5w-40 is now back in stock.

This is the cheapest LL-01, A40 and MB 229.5 approved oil on the market at $21 for 5 quarts. It is made by SOPUS (Shell/Pennzoil/GTL base stocks).

https://www.walmart.com/ip/737859365

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Quaker State Euro 5w-40 is now back in stock.

This is the cheapest LL-01, A40 and MB 229.5 approved oil on the market at $21 for 5 quarts. It is made by SOPUS (Shell/Pennzoil/GTL base stocks).

https://www.walmart.com/ip/737859365

Comparison of spec sheet between Quaker State and Pennzoil Euro. KV100 is the same.

Nearly identical overall, but Pennzoil edges out (barely) due to -45 vs -39 cold pour point.

I would still run QS over the Pennzoil.

QS is basically half the price of PZ with nearly identical specs.

[edycol]

Sorry guys. My mom is visiting from Europe and cooking too much 😂

Anyway, it seems that current QS is previous PPE 5W40 SN+.
Don't get confused by that as sometimes these European oils meet future API specification and they just switch labeling after they get approval from API.
Lower pour point indicates heavier base stock and probably bit more HC base oil than current PPE. But, pour point only matters if you live in Fairbanks, AK.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by rsyring

I recently wanted to figure out what oil to use for my F80 b/c I want to start going to the track 1-2 times per month. Reading through this thread was...rough. There is just so much data. In order to help me sift through it, I copied quotes and replies (mostly from edycol, but sometimes from others) and saved them to a single document. If you'd like to take a look at that, you can find that here:

https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Engine...7BHPzMcG47fAvV

I tried to keep track of page numbers but lost my way sometimes and then realized those numbers are completely dependent on what your "posts per page" is set to, so not the same for everyone. Well, it's a rough draft anyway.

edycol I see that you have mentioned putting together a summary post. I'm a software developer and I'm wondering if I could use that info and put together a simple website that would act as a summary for all this information and be easy for us to keep updated and post references to. Might include an FAQ page too. If interested, let me know (DM or randy@syrings.us), and I can walk you through how I'd set it up so it's easy to update with new info and receive suggestions/questions to keep it relevant. If there is enough interest, I might even be able to create a "oil recommendation" app as part of that site that would ask a few questions about engine type, warranty status, track usage, OCI preference, and then recommend an oil accordingly.

Hey,
I didn't touch anything for two weeks. Mom visiting from Europe so busy eating.
Let me finish this and we can see.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by edycol

Hey,
I didn't touch anything for two weeks. Mom visiting from Europe so busy eating.
Let me finish this and we can see.

I'm guessing that your mother knows cooking oils like you know motor oil?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

I'm guessing that your mother knows cooking oils like you know motor oil?

Lol. She is actually much better.

[Sephrr]

Anyone have thoughts on this version of oil? It says formulated for most BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes. But on the back it doesn't have the LL-01 or any certification for BMW, just has certification for VW/Porsche

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sephrr

Anyone have thoughts on this version of oil? It says formulated for most BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes. But on the back it doesn't have the LL-01 or any certification for BMW, just has certification for VW/Porsche

It lost BMW LL04. It never had LL01.
BMW in 2018 updated both LL01 and LL04. New updated eliminated 0W30/40 oils.
So PPE 0W30 had LL04 but lost it not bcs. oil changed but BMW changed approval to address timing chain issues in N20 engines, but also increased oxidation requirements which 0WXX oils with HTHS above 3.5cP have harder time to meet due to base stocks. So BMW just eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 approvals.

That oil is excellent choice for N55. But since it is so called Low-SAPS oil I would do UOA at 5k and order TBN and TAN analysis. Post it here.
Generally, N55 engines don't need updated LL01 and LL04 and you can go MB229.5 or low -SAPS MB229.51/52 that this PPE is approved for.

As for labeling, Pennzoil is notorious for sloppiness when it comes to labeling and product sheets.

[Sephrr]

Originally Posted by edycol

It lost BMW LL04. It never had LL01.
BMW in 2018 updated both LL01 and LL04. New updated eliminated 0W30/40 oils.
So PPE 0W30 had LL04 but lost it not bcs. oil changed but BMW changed approval to address timing chain issues in N20 engines, but also increased oxidation requirements which 0WXX oils with HTHS above 3.5cP have harder time to meet due to base stocks. So BMW just eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 and LL04 approvals.

That oil is excellent choice for N55. But since it is so called Low-SAPS oil I would do UOA at 5k and order TBN and TAN analysis. Post it here.
Generally, N55 engines don't need updated LL01 and LL04 and you can go MB229.5 or low -SAPS MB229.51/52 that this PPE is approved for.

As for labeling, Pennzoil is notorious for sloppiness when it comes to labeling and product sheets.

I have access to this oil through work, would you recommend a different weight? I just daily drive and shorter distance and occasional short pulls after warmed up

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sephrr

I have access to this oil through work, would you recommend a different weight? I just daily drive and shorter distance and occasional short pulls after warmed up

Nope! It is excellent for you. What really matters is HTHS (High Temperature/High Shear) and not grade. In N55 IMO minimum HTHS should be 3.5cP. That oil meets that and it is probably around 3.6 as it is GTL base stock.
Use it with confidence. Run 5k interval.

[Sephrr]

Originally Posted by edycol

Nope! It is excellent for you. What really matters is HTHS (High Temperature/High Shear) and not grade. In N55 IMO minimum HTHS should be 3.5cP. That oil meets that and it is probably around 3.6 as it is GTL base stock.
Use it with confidence. Run 5k interval.

And good for the S55?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Sephrr

And good for the S55?

Yep. ACEA A3 and C3 (this oil) have minimum HTHS 3.5. S55 is derivative of N55. It can run on lower HTHS (LL01 FE-min. 3cP) for better mpg, but stick to oil like this PPE LX. Engines can run on thicker oil any time. On thinner oil? It is always but iffy.

[whitedc5]

Originally Posted by edycol

Sorry guys. My mom is visiting from Europe and cooking too much 😂

Anyway, it seems that current QS is previous PPE 5W40 SN+.
Don't get confused by that as sometimes these European oils meet future API specification and they just switch labeling after they get approval from API.
Lower pour point indicates heavier base stock and probably bit more HC base oil than current PPE. But, pour point only matters if you live in Fairbanks, AK.

Would you recommend this Quaker State 5W40 over Castrol Edge 0w40?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by whitedc5

Would you recommend this Quaker State 5W40 over Castrol Edge 0w40?

No. Castrol Edge 0W40 is exceptional stuff. If you don't track vehicle go Castrol Edge 0W30. That one is even better. Both are premier Castrol products.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by edycol

No. Castrol Edge 0W40 is exceptional stuff. If you don't track vehicle go Castrol Edge 0W30. That one is even better. Both are premier Castrol products.

Castrol 0W-40 got its LL-01 approval back . July 2022 SDS below.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/BFBA84752EA07DAE80258883003B0FFD/$File/wepp-cgfk83.pdf

[agentrnge]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Castrol 0W-40 got its LL-01 approval back . July 2022 SDS below.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/BFBA84752EA07DAE80258883003B0FFD/$File/wepp-cgfk83.pdf

Nice! Not that it mattered, was/am still using it during and now post warranty. But its still cool to see it.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by hellokitty

Castrol 0W-40 got its LL-01 approval back . July 2022 SDS below.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/BFBA84752EA07DAE80258883003B0FFD/$File/wepp-cgfk83.pdf

There is some confusion around that. Some web sites are not showing it. We have to wait to see actual bottles.

[rsyring]

Originally Posted by edycol

Hey,
I didn't touch anything for two weeks. Mom visiting from Europe so busy eating.
Let me finish this and we can see.

NP. It would be 2-3 months before I could start working on it anyway. It also seems like it would be really helpful, especially if we had some kind of "recommendation" and/or comparison tool. It would save a lot of the "What about x" and "What about x vs y" posts.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by rsyring

NP. It would be 2-3 months before I could start working on it anyway. It also seems like it would be really helpful, especially if we had some kind of "recommendation" and/or comparison tool. It would save a lot of the "What about x" and "What about x vs y" posts.

You really can't compare that without actual engine tests. One can make assumptions based on base stock composition (as much as it is available publicly) and some performance numbers. That is all point of approvals. The meet minimum requirements and owner doesn't have to think too much. But, since those are minimum requirements, there will be better oils among, in this case, really good oils.