12-26-2013, 12:03 PM | #23 | |
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Comparing a 458 to a M3 or M3/GT3 is laughable. Sure the 'value' may be better if you're only talking hp. But then why not extend the argument to the 'value' and hp of M3/Mustang GT. About the same HP for half the price. At least the Mustang can keep up with the m3 on the track (currently available models). Put it in Boss form (which still saves you around $20k - or about half the cost of another Boss) and then it trumps the M3 in performance. Future iterations will probably have a similar result in both performance and power. Not even sure how the M6 even fits. Great cruiser, but that's one car I wouldn't even own. It doesn't make sense to me. And yes, I've driven one, alot, hard on a track. Give me the M3 for sporty fun with enough room for my needs or the M5 if I really needed extra space. But let's not get on the OP too much, he's just asking a question that got a few of us a bit too excited. Cross shopping is fun, just like talking about cars is. If I could afford the GT3, I'd get that, if I could afford the 458 I'd have one of those before I'd have a M3 as many would, but since money is always a factor, the M3 is a better buy and probably an a better all around car than either if you're driving it to work every day and/or want to carry 2-3 pasengers. But if you really want value, than truly the M3 beings to lose that battle when compared to other similarly performing cars (let's not get into lap comparisons of the Chevy ZL1 or Boss vs any of the cars mentioned in this thread other and debate the performance to $$$ value). OK, rant over. (PS I'd still take a M3 over an american car if I didn't have to rationalize its cost. But I'm keeping an eye on the C63 too) |
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12-26-2013, 01:30 PM | #25 | ||||||||||
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I realize I was a little vague in my initial post when I compared the hp and torque stats of BMW M performance cars to other high end cars. I probably should have explained myself a little better. I assumed everyone agreed with me that BMW M Performance cars are generally well-designed, well-packaged, good handling cars. I know that despite the closeness to certain cars in hp and torque, like ferrari and porsche, M Performance cars still get out-performed on the track by these guys. My only point was and still is that I don't think the better performance and "feel" of these cars, like the 911 gt3 and ferrari 458, justify the high prices. I think that the price you pay for M performance is much more reasonable in comparison (not in comparison to American Muscle). Last edited by Patronus86; 12-26-2013 at 01:56 PM.. Reason: typo |
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12-26-2013, 01:42 PM | #26 |
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Wasn't trying to troll, and though I still have a lot to learn about cars, I am by no means clueless. I put my opinion out and it turns out a lot of people disagree with it. Lesson learned...I'll keep my opinion to myself... until another person starts a thread, at which point I'll join the band wagon and let him/her know how foolish he/she is....
Last edited by Patronus86; 12-26-2013 at 01:43 PM.. Reason: typo |
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12-26-2013, 02:19 PM | #27 |
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12-26-2013, 02:28 PM | #28 | |
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Last edited by Patronus86; 12-26-2013 at 02:33 PM.. Reason: typo |
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12-26-2013, 03:43 PM | #29 |
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The moral of the story being:
Don't ask advice on which cars to buy on these forums as you will be flamed for considering, or mentioning, the following: a) the wrong car b) the wrong cars to compare c) the wrong set of standards to compare cars with d) mentioning a Ferrari and a BMW in the same sentence or post without a disclaimer that you respect the Ferrari much more than the BMW e) that, even though it's mentioned in the OP, didn't just consider an american muscle car based on your preferences f) considering a car that I personally don't care for g) all of the above... I could go on... |
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12-26-2013, 03:54 PM | #30 | |
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Agreed as well.
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12-26-2013, 04:25 PM | #31 | |
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First video from AMuS: BMW M3 wins the test, GT3 the hearts Second, third and fourth video: In English so everyone get's how that turns out... Last edited by Boss330; 12-26-2013 at 05:03 PM.. |
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12-26-2013, 04:34 PM | #32 | |
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Ha I agree most people do "pounce" maybe I did...I get people are passionate about M3/M4's but "my opinion" is there are very few cars that can honestly match a car on any level, that is twice the cost. In my business my customers are the corporate HQ's for Ferrari, Maserati, Aston, Bentley, MBUSA, BMW, etc and I can to see and touch EVERYTHING. I have test driven lots of cars (many pre-production M cars over the years) and I own a Mini Cooper (my fiances ride), F-150 (I have Raptor envy but couldn't justify the $15k difference), S2000 and a 911 C4S. Honestly, I have eagerly been waiting for the new M4 to come out. As the M4 has continued to go up in price so have my expectations. I view my E46 as a sports car, the E92 as "just about" to cross the line to GT car, and the new M4 unfortunately "appears" to have crossed into the "GT" car territory. I am getting old and that might be what I am ready for but I can't decide until I drive it which is 100% correct. I do actually think for this reason the M3 will actually be the better car over the M4 since, I for one, will find GT car handling great in a 4-door. Drive a 911S as your daily driver for a few months and then go into an E92 and you will realize the handling of the 911 is so much more agile in terms of feel. Then drive an S2000 for a week and get in the 911 and you will think "this feels like a school bus". Even with the crappy acceleration in the S2000, once you are moving on a back road you will forget everything. If 0-60 is the driving factor the Corvette is the best value for your money- maybe the Shelby Mustang. The new 991S in sport mode with the sport exhaust is as close to driving nirvana as I have found for $100k. Its the sum of all parts- fit, finish, performance, handling, etc. Let's be honest, if someone was looking for "value", we would all be driving the WRX STI because lets face it, out of the box it is great but with a little tune that is a monster. My view on "value" alternatives would be WRX STI vs M3, Corvette/Mustang/used 911S vs M4, and 911 GT3 vs a Ferrari458.
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12-26-2013, 04:43 PM | #33 |
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Dude that's the M3GTS! He proves the point though on the M3/GTR/GT3 at 6:15...
Maybe its me but the GT-R is the one car that I want to love but I can;t get there...
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12-26-2013, 04:47 PM | #34 | |
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To me, the F8x (both M3 and M4) seems to go back to the E46 roots with lower weight, upgraded brakes, better handling, better rear diff etc. Many parts of the evolution from E9x to F8x pointing more towards sports than GT, to me. What happens with the M3 brakes after two laps here is worrying... |
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12-26-2013, 04:52 PM | #35 | |
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And really, it's more fair to compare the M3 GTS with the GT3 and the regular M3 with the Carrera S. But the point really was that at least a few reputable Magazines thought it was fair to compare the M3 and GT3... |
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12-26-2013, 04:57 PM | #36 | |
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12-26-2013, 05:29 PM | #38 | |
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Zoom out for a minute. M3 has always been based on a mass-market entry-level luxury vehicle. Many hard parts are shared. Significant differences are engine, suspension, and, more recently, exterior. M3 is a great car both on paper and on real-world streets. Everyone agrees to this. Every generation has been really good at what it's purported to do. I personally think E36 is the low point because of US v. ROW engine, but that's obviously an opinion rather than a fact. But when you compare M3 to cars built on purpose-built sports chassis, like 911 or 458 or Elise, the M3 loses luster. Here's an example: on my first E46 M3, the front wheel bearings were shot after 20k miles, probably 7k of which were on the track. This wasn't a defect; it was just that the bearings were designed for more pedestrian use. Another: brakes are perennial weak point. Even after ducting, brass bushings, race pads, stainless lines, and SRF, my stock brakes significantly faded after 15 laps around Sebring in the summer. I thought all cars were like this until I started to look at 911s. All cars aren't like this. Porsches can actually handle this kind of usage without resorting to paragraph-long mod lists. So can modern Lotus as well as Ferrari. Candidly, I think that's the end of the list. This is why Porsches cost more than BMWs. You're getting a car full of superior hard parts that the eyes don't see and drivers forget about because they're too busy driving rather than troubleshooting. Some guys love tinkering with their cars, and that's great for them. I'm not at all knocking M3s. They're great - maybe the best - for what they portend to be: sporty street cars suitable for everyday use at a relatively reasonable price. But M3 is inherently a compromise car because it's built off passenger-car chassis rather than a sports car one. Add that to inferior hard parts, and you'll see why guys go nuts over Porsches and Ferraris over BMWs. |
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12-26-2013, 05:35 PM | #39 | |
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12-26-2013, 05:51 PM | #40 | |
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12-26-2013, 06:05 PM | #41 | |||||
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My comment was sarcastic...not meant to be taken seriously...
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Porsche has the option of getting high-end carbon ceramic brakes...they cost around $8-9k. They look awesome, I've heard they perform really well and are durable, but like everything else in the world of cars they eventually break down and need to be fixed or totally replaced....$8-9k for brakes + labor fees just seems like a lot to me, regardless of how well they perform. Last edited by Patronus86; 12-26-2013 at 06:12 PM.. Reason: typo |
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12-26-2013, 07:11 PM | #42 | |
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12-26-2013, 07:20 PM | #43 |
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12-26-2013, 07:47 PM | #44 | |
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