E92 to F80 ZCP (Longish read)

[AO08BAS]

Hi BimmerBros
This thread has been a while coming but just a brief intro on myself well more my ///M history firstly. Before I give you a run down of my experience of going from 2012 M3 to a 2017 ZCP M3.

I've been an owner of various M3's since the early 2000's. My first M3 being the 3.2L M3 Evo when I was a wee pup of 20 in 2003! It was a write off repair for very little at the time seeing as I lived with parents and had no real expenses. Fast forward 2yrs and that car met an untimely death due to being rear ended.

Since 2014 I've been back in the M game and have picked up 3 M3's in about as many years. Starting with a high mileage E92 6MT 2008 and more recently a 2012 DCT E92.

I must say I LOVED the E92 it was a beast of a car, I loved the power you felt anytime you were above 4k RPM's and don't forget the engine sounding like a plane or the sickening downshift sound

But all good things must come to an end and after 3.5yrs of owning the two E92's it was time to change cars and like most others I did toy with the idea of maybe a C63 or even the Audi's but after looking around I had my mindset that my next car would be the F80 M3 and it had to be the ZCP as it seemed like the F80 M3 had by this time become not even worth the time with everyone telling me either you get the ZCP or don't even bother with an M3 anymore!
When I went in to trade my car the dealer made a comment to the effect of "I bet you cant wait to hand over your keys and get your new car" to which I replied "Actually I feel rather sad as I really really love my car and will be sad to see it go"... Boy was I wrong! But more on that later

I wont bore you with the buying process but as an E92 lover I wasn't sure how the F80 could do anything better than the NA V8 I think I had been blinded by the fanboys who just refused to move on with the times. And I must saying having now owned the ZCP for just under a month this car is better in almost every single way. I mean driving daily its night and day just feels better in every single aspect. Sharper, quicker, more planted and just overall more special. Driving this car around town you are always reminded that its "something a bit special" I would say its mostly the mental pops and burbles when you have it in Sport+ LOL!

Exterior/Sound
Right off the bat though the E92 coupes which I've owned were lovely looking but I must say they have now finally started to look slightly dated IMO. Somehow it seems as though the E46 M3 has actually held up better in terms of looks than its younger brother the E92! I am in no way saying it already looks old but there are signs of ageing on the E92 for sure and when parked up next to the F80 it really shows.

I don't think the F80 in many aspects looks as aggressive as the E92 and certainly the E92 bonnet is much meaner looking but that aside the M3 F80 overall to me has the better stance with the front and rear arches being a particular stand out with them being so wide and angry looking.

On to what most E92 fan boys warned me about... yes the engine sounded better in the E92 without a doubt but overall sound for the occasion? I feel the ZCP actually just sounds better it just sounds much more angry and loud etc I feel like I am driving a dragon on a leash...You just hear more super sport sedan sounds and yes that is what I want an M3 to sound like! I want the uncivilised none compromising 30 something year old as opposed to the much more classy yet angry gentleman sound you got with the older car.

I would often drive in 5th doing 30-40mph in the normal roads when approaching a roundabout just so I could hear the awesome downshift from that lovely V8! I really would love to have that sound in the F80 as I think it would almost complete the sound of the car but where it lacks in downshift sounds it makes up for it in its ASBO style pops and crackles with the ZCP set up! Do I miss the sound of the V8? Sure who wouldn't? But if you want the drama and the sounds of driving what an M3 should be all about then the ZCP to me sounds more like what an M3 should sound like.

Once you are warmed up and in Sports+ for the throttle its just a huge event driving even at low speeds and 2k RPM you'll often times get the pops and bangs which is sure to bring a cheeky grin to anyone who loves a bit of ASBO action. Now keep in mind this isn't like the total hooligan shotgun firing sounds you'll get with some tuned GTR's at all. If it can be said it is much more civilised and classy at the same time being totally ridiculous if such a thing was even possible.

Interior
Interior wise is the biggest difference I've noticed and that's despite saying the F80 is a much much quicker car than the E92! I mean it's like stepping into a car of the future when it comes to the updated iDrive system and just what you can actually do. Your view is fully customised to your key in terms of what menu items you want to or not want to see which I love. The HUD is a life changer I would never now want a car of any brand that doesn't have the HUD as it makes you question how you even drove a car in the past that didn't have this feature. It has become such focal point that you don't even look at the instrument clusters when driving anymore seeing as you can literally see everything you would need whilst driving on the HUD.

The infotainment is years above my 2012 car in every single aspect. iDrive works better and has 200% more information from just the super awesome technology in action screens which show your Torque and HP figures to having it read you the latest news or show you where the nearest rainfall is. This coupled with the BMW connected app just makes the step up in interior quality worth the upgrade alone.

Power
This now brings me onto the power! I still am in my infancy with this car and due to being in the UK and it being winter of course the weather is far from M driving weather at this moment in time but WOW the way this thing hits you with its power is mind blowing! I would say its MUCH faster than the E92's I owned.

I certainly feel the "turbo lag" but in terms of sheer numbers and the way it delivers that power its a whole new level to the previous generation of M3! You can very easily be doing very stupid numbers on a normal street if you plant your foot for more than a few seconds. Though with this I might add now this could be due to me just not being a capable enough driver yet for this car, I do find it loses traction a lot easier than my older cars and hooking it up off the line isn't as easy as it was but again this could just be something I learn as time goes by.

Summary

Summing up I actually am a little annoyed with myself that I waited over a year to finally make the choice of moving from the E92 to the F80. And this was for the most part due to listening to my favourite E92 guys all over the internet who were on the E92 journey with me telling me how the new car sucks and how the F80 has no soul without the V8 etc. Now I've come to realise those guys are to be laughed at like the E92 guys laugh at the E46 guys when they tell them BMW sold it's soul to the devil by putting the V8 into an M3 over the Inline 6 that they will swear is the greatest engine of all time blah blah!

The truth of the matter is like it or not the new car is a huge step up and a whole new level of fast! If as an E92 guy you are on the fence or for whatever reason hate the new F80 ZCP then my advice is swallow your pride leave your ego at home and give the new M3 a chance and I am certain you'll kick yourself like I did for giving it so much slack.

Cliffs
F80>E92 in almost every way

Side note if like me you were curious but weren't sure if you could get the numbers financially to get the new car, just give you dealer a call and let them know what you want and the numbers you're looking for and let them make the sale! If you still aren't getting anywhere drop me a PM as I have a family friend working as a sales manager at BMW and could possibly get you in on a very good deal!

[cionide]

Do you miss the little butler that hands you the seatbelt? I sure miss him

[Tommy L Garage]

Congrats. Wishing you best of luck.

The exhaust note is the only thing the E92 does better than the F80

[AO08BAS]

Originally Posted by cionide

Do you miss the little butler that hands you the seatbelt? I sure miss him

Haha! How could I forget to mention Jeeves?! TBH he was very hit and miss, it was a cool party trick but only worked 75% of the time and more of a gimmick than a must have such as the HUD for example.

Having said the above, the seat belt position is such is sits on the side bolster of the ZCP seat and therefore very easy to reach making you not miss the VIP experience of the E92.

Originally Posted by Tommy L Garage

Congrats. Wishing you best of luck.

The exhaust note is the only thing the E92 does better than the F80

Thanks for the wishes Tommy, and if you are the same Tommy from YT then extra thanks as I watched your collection video the night before going to get my car and your excitement got me even more in ///M mode with even less regrets about my decision. Thank you for your awesome content and I look forward to seeing more in the future.

[EricSMG]

Made the switch myself recently (still own an E46 M3) and the F80Z literally blows the E9XM out of the water. It's a massive step up in all categories to be sure. I don't think there's ever been such a drastic step up between generations before this. The E9X is instantly obsolete.

[AO08BAS]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Made the switch myself recently (still own an E46 M3) and the F80Z literally blows the E9XM out of the water. It's a massive step up in all categories to be sure. I don't think there's ever been such a drastic step up between generations before this. The E9X is instantly obsolete.

I feel the E92 has its own place and in its own right is a great car but if anyone argues it's better than the F80 they are deluded or just a hater of the biggest degree.

I do feel that ZCP made the normal F80 M3 almost obsolete in the sense for 3k more it's not even worth considering the none comp car. Here in the UK the F80 M3 now goes for only a thousand more than a decent E92 that is how irrelevant it's become since people only want the ZCP now.

[elinstylez]

Nice review! I like the new technology and the f80 is what I need in terms of practicality. The e92 m3 has the raw driver engagement complemented with the v8 noise I love but everything else is better with the f80.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

Nice review! I like the new technology and the f80 is what I need in terms of practicality. The e92 m3 has the raw driver engagement complemented with the v8 noise I love but everything else is better with the f80.

But that's the thing - the F80 is far more direct and focused while the E90 is more refined and comfortable.

The E90 is by far the most refined M3 to date, the only thing raw about it is engine sound. Fantastic car, but not raw.

[BMWM4MW]

Nice review but I like to watch videos too

[AO08BAS]

Originally Posted by elinstylez

Nice review! I like the new technology and the f80 is what I need in terms of practicality. The e92 m3 has the raw driver engagement complemented with the v8 noise I love but everything else is better with the f80.

So far I haven't felt the raw driver element everyone seems to bang on about. Personally this could just be something which is subjective and totally down to the individual who is experiencing the cars. The only thing I can comment on is road feel and steering feel. I don't like the steering in Sport+ as it feels like a brick when driving less than 5mph other than that it's OK.

On the E92 I felt the whole steering settings were a total gimmick and I felt hardly and difference between the modes the E92 had. Overall it was just right not too heavy and not to light where as with the F80 there is a noticeable difference at least at lower speeds between the three modes

Originally Posted by EricSMG

But that's the thing - the F80 is far more direct and focused while the E90 is more refined and comfortable.

The E90 is by far the most refined M3 to date, the only thing raw about it is engine sound. Fantastic car, but not raw.

Totally agree on your points Eric, I have no idea where people get this idea about the E92 being raw?! I felt it was much more civilised especially at lower RPM's than people make it out to be. It was much more a classier drive than the F80 IMO.

Originally Posted by BMWM4MW

Nice review but I like to watch videos too

As do I! I didn't intend my post to be a review as such. Just how I think the cars compare as I often wondered about those things when I was still considering the switch and I didn't really find much online to answer is the F80 better than an E92 and if so what's better and how?

[DanMpower]

OP, nice little write-up.

I myself have owned 2 E92 M3's and I still have one along with my F80.

If you post this over on the E9x M forums you will be lynched for sure. I noticed while browsing the E9x M3 forums, the members always seem to view the F80 as a threat and the arch enemy for some reason. Most of them believe the F80 is the inferior car which is completely laughable. Sure the E9x is a bit more comfortable, rides a bit softer and seems better insulated, all good things for long distance travel but there is NO WAY it's a better all-around package than the F8x.

The F8x really feels like a precision track weapon that's an amazing daily driver if need be. Getting out of my E92 and into my F80, the seating position, seats and overall feeling immediately reminds you that you're in sometime special. It just has this frantic attitude that gets your heart pumping everytime you drive it, it feels alive and vicious with so much mechanical grip and so much power, it always feels light on its feet and playful. The E9x M has a softer, smoother paced, gentle giant feeling to it which CAN feel dull sometimes but it's a great highway cruiser. Around town, it feels a bit heavy which is exasperated by the lack of low-end torque. I prefer taking the E92 on long road trips and my F80 for everything else, even running to the grocery store to get milk I grab the keys to my F80.

When I first picked up my first E92 M3, during the honeymoon stage, I found it pretty fun to rev out that S65, instantly reminded of my B and K series Honda days, I didn't find the engine to sound that impressive like people make it seem. A little exhaust growl then mostly all induction noises which drowns everything else out. I tried to fix that by trying a few exhaust setups, It sounded pretty good from the outside but inside for some reason you can only enjoy it when you're next to a wall, or in a tunnel. The E9x exhaust sound doesn't transmit well inside the cabin for the driver's aural pleasure. Honestly, the S65 sounds decent but it's nowhere near amazing sounding. You want amazing sounding? The M5 S85 V10 sounds amazing. GT3, LFA, Huracan, and F12, those are amazing sounding engines. The S65 is a smaller displacement cross plane V8 that revs to 8300, it sounds better on paper than in real life. Hell, I even think the 5 cylinder in the RS3 sounds better than the S65.

The S55 may not match those cars in an all-out rev contest but it has a unique sound, and contrary to what E9x loyals would like you to believe, it has quite a bit of character. With the right exhaust setup, even in stock ZCP or CS form, I think it sounds very good especially inside the cabin. With a good catless setup, it has a spine-tingling wail in the upper revs that's quite exotic sounding. I was messing with a Huracan and 458 owner down PCH one day when I had my AA mid+MPE setup, they both complimented the exhaust and gave me big thumbs up. It's funny but every car enthusiast I spoke with seem to think the F8x sounds really good, most of the haters I noticed are E9x owners sadly.

Another area where E9x fanboys like to point out is steering feel. If you hang around the forums too long you'll soon believe the E9x has steering lifted straight out of a Lotus Exige with a sprinkle of unicorn dust for good measure and the F8x steering was connected to a boat rudder. From my experience, the E9x M3 has good steering feedback but far from the best, my old BRZ actually had better steering. While the F8x steering does lack a little bit of feedback from the road, I find it to be much more precise with loads of front-end grip, as the OP said, the different settings Comfort/Sport/Sport+ really makes a difference in dialing in what you like.

Conclusion, I think the E92 is a great stablemate to the F80 and I feel blessed to own both, but to think the E92 is superior to the F8x is just plain silly.

[AO08BAS]

Originally Posted by RAETD M

OP, nice little write-up.

I myself have owned 2 E92 M3's and I still have one along with my F80.

If you post this over on the E9x M forums you will be lynched for sure. I noticed while browsing the E9x M3 forums, the members always seem to view the F80 as a threat and the arch enemy for some reason. Most of them believe the F80 is the inferior car which is completely laughable. Sure the E9x is a bit more comfortable, rides a bit softer and seems better insulated, all good things for long distance travel but there is NO WAY it's a better all-around package than the F8x.

The F8x really feels like a precision track weapon that's an amazing daily driver if need be. Getting out of my E92 and into my F80, the seating position, seats and overall feeling immediately reminds you that you're in sometime special. It just has this frantic attitude that gets your heart pumping everytime you drive it, it feels alive and vicious with so much mechanical grip and so much power, it always feels light on its feet and playful. The E9x M has a softer, smoother paced, gentle giant feeling to it which CAN feel dull sometimes but it's a great highway cruiser. Around town, it feels a bit heavy which is exasperated by the lack of low-end torque. I prefer taking the E92 on long road trips and my F80 for everything else, even running to the grocery store to get milk I grab the keys to my F80...............

Excellent post! This thread is no way a E9X bash as the same with the above poster I feel very lucky to have owned not one but two E92's but I do think people who are considering the switch shouldn't just write off the F80 and especially the ZCP purely based on some ramblings of guys who seem way too attached to the past(in this case their E9X M3)

If someone reading this thread is in the position I was in about 1 year ago and is seriously considering the options then I would say if you want actual advice then get it from or take it from people who have owned BOTH and not just driven both for a few days.

As we all know with any car, you'll never get to know your real opinions on a car from a 45mins test drive at your local dealer.

One last point which no one here has mentioned but I find myself pleasantly surprised with is the MPG. Now hear me out no I did not buy the cars for the MPG but the size of the tank on the E92 along with getting 8-10MPG meant I was literally paying close to £1 a minute driving the car around and having to fill up every 1-2 hrs of in town driving which got very annoying. I was more annoyed with having to go and fill up every second day or sometimes twice a day if I really wanted to drive like an M car owner as opposed to the actual low MPG I was getting.

I am happy to report I am averaging in the early 20's at the moment which is a lot better than cheering every time I got above 10MPG in the last car lol.

[JRV-F82-M4]

I DD drove my E92 M3 for about 45K trouble-free miles and I now have DD my M4 for about 4K miles. IMHO, the M4 is better in every single way. This is not to knock my E92 M3, it was a stunning car with an electric blue BBK and BBS LM-Rs, but I'll take my M4 any day. The M4 really is a much better DD, with all the upgraded tech, the better MPG, the instantly available low-end torque, and all of the other virtues listed above. I never did get all the rave about the low-torque, gas guzzlin' NA S65 V8... Give me the turbos anyday.

[THEROK]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts between the two.

In my eyes, the E9X has zero road presence and that makes it a non-starter for me. It's narrow, slab-sided, flat-arsed, and holds the distinction as the heaviest M3 model ever released. It makes that wonderful NA V8 a moot point. If I'm not looking back at it with deep auto enthusiast lust, there's zero reason to buy.

On the flip side, and I'm no BMW fan boy, the F8X has one of the best exterior designs of all-time. It's crazy what Florian Nissl was able to put to pen to paper to production. Who would've thunk a tarted up 3/4-series could look so damn good?

I'm looking forward to what BMW will do with the upcoming G-gen. I have a hard time believing they'll f it up as the base 3 is a great start.

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by JRV-F82-M4

I DD drove my E92 M3 for about 45K trouble-free miles and I now have DD my M4 for about 4K miles. IMHO, the M4 is better in every single way. This is not to knock my E92 M3, it was a stunning car with an electric blue BBK and BBS LM-Rs, but I'll take my M4 any day. The M4 really is a much better DD, with all the upgraded tech, the better MPG, the instantly available low-end torque, and all of the other virtues listed above. I never did get all the rave about the low-torque, gas guzzlin' NA S65 V8... Give me the turbos anyday.

Attachment 1964858

Attachment 1964859

damn. first time seeing Avus Blue on an M4. looks fantastic!

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by RAETD M

OP, nice little write-up.

I myself have owned 2 E92 M3's and I still have one along with my F80.

If you post this over on the E9x M forums you will be lynched for sure. I noticed while browsing the E9x M3 forums, the members always seem to view the F80 as a threat and the arch enemy for some reason. Most of them believe the F80 is the inferior car which is completely laughable. Sure the E9x is a bit more comfortable, rides a bit softer and seems better insulated, all good things for long distance travel but there is NO WAY it's a better all-around package than the F8x.

The F8x really feels like a precision track weapon that's an amazing daily driver if need be. Getting out of my E92 and into my F80, the seating position, seats and overall feeling immediately reminds you that you're in sometime special. It just has this frantic attitude that gets your heart pumping everytime you drive it, it feels alive and vicious with so much mechanical grip and so much power, it always feels light on its feet and playful. The E9x M has a softer, smoother paced, gentle giant feeling to it which CAN feel dull sometimes but it's a great highway cruiser. Around town, it feels a bit heavy which is exasperated by the lack of low-end torque. I prefer taking the E92 on long road trips and my F80 for everything else, even running to the grocery store to get milk I grab the keys to my F80.

When I first picked up my first E92 M3, during the honeymoon stage, I found it pretty fun to rev out that S65, instantly reminded of my B and K series Honda days, I didn't find the engine to sound that impressive like people make it seem. A little exhaust growl then mostly all induction noises which drowns everything else out. I tried to fix that by trying a few exhaust setups, It sounded pretty good from the outside but inside for some reason you can only enjoy it when you're next to a wall, or in a tunnel. The E9x exhaust sound doesn't transmit well inside the cabin for the driver's aural pleasure. Honestly, the S65 sounds decent but it's nowhere near amazing sounding. You want amazing sounding? The M5 S85 V10 sounds amazing. GT3, LFA, Huracan, and F12, those are amazing sounding engines. The S65 is a smaller displacement cross plane V8 that revs to 8300, it sounds better on paper than in real life. Hell, I even think the 5 cylinder in the RS3 sounds better than the S65.

The S55 may not match those cars in an all-out rev contest but it has a unique sound, and contrary to what E9x loyals would like you to believe, it has quite a bit of character. With the right exhaust setup, even in stock ZCP or CS form, I think it sounds very good especially inside the cabin. With a good catless setup, it has a spine-tingling wail in the upper revs that's quite exotic sounding. I was messing with a Huracan and 458 owner down PCH one day when I had my AA mid+MPE setup, they both complimented the exhaust and gave me big thumbs up. It's funny but every car enthusiast I spoke with seem to think the F8x sounds really good, most of the haters I noticed are E9x owners sadly.

Another area where E9x fanboys like to point out is steering feel. If you hang around the forums too long you'll soon believe the E9x has steering lifted straight out of a Lotus Exige with a sprinkle of unicorn dust for good measure and the F8x steering was connected to a boat rudder. From my experience, the E9x M3 has good steering feedback but far from the best, my old BRZ actually had better steering. While the F8x steering does lack a little bit of feedback from the road, I find it to be much more precise with loads of front-end grip, as the OP said, the different settings Comfort/Sport/Sport+ really makes a difference in dialing in what you like.

Conclusion, I think the E92 is a great stablemate to the F80 and I feel blessed to own both, but to think the E92 is superior to the F8x is just plain silly.

This post is unbelievably accurate and on-point. I literally relate to, and agree with, every single point you made.

The E9XM fanboys that say it's the better car... or even more laughable, drive it because it sounds better... are on serious crack. Great car, but it's been FAR, FAR surpassed by the current model to the point that I honestly can't take anyone seriously who, after sufficient seat time in both, doesn't agree.

The step up from the E90 to the F80 reminds me of the step up from the E36 to the E46. The latter cars in both cases represent dramatic improvements aggressiveness, looks, rigidity, speed, grip, chassis tuning, focus, power and, most importantly.... excitement.