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      02-24-2020, 09:22 PM   #1
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M4 with GC camber plates and MP HAS suspension - crazy road noise

Hi everyone, so here's the deal. I installed GC camber plates and M performance HAS suspension and the front suspension sounds terrible. On bumpy roads there is very noticeable knocking/clunking noises coming from both passenger and driver sides. Sounds like a 20 year old car with bad ball joints/end links. We checked everything and it all looks ok, bolts are all torqued and springs properly seated. The only thing that we noticed is the strut top bolt isn't easy to tighten since it's hard to get the socket on it properly. About half the nut is able to be grabbed by the socket. I'm wondering if this noise is caused by these two nuts not being tightened enough and judging by the marred nut the shop must have had a tough time keeping a socket on it while tightening.

Does the top nut look like it is on there with enough threads grabbed? I can only assume it's either the top bolt/nut or the actual camber plates themselves causing this noise however they were fine when they came off my last M3 and made none of the clunking noise I'm hearing now.

Any help appreciated, this is driving me nuts. Here's a pic of the top of the strut so you can see what I mean about the nut.
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      02-25-2020, 07:44 AM   #2
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For what it's worth, I've gone through stock springs, Macht Schnell springs, Bilstein B16 Damptronic coil overs, and now MP HAS. MP HAS is the only kit for me out of those 4 that exhibits any sort of clunk sounds. It's my only disappointment with it. It's rare, but it's there. I'd imagine camber plates only make this worse, but they're noisy no matter what you put them on. Maybe the combo with MP HAS is just a perfect storm.
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      02-25-2020, 12:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantix View Post
Hi everyone, so here's the deal. I installed GC camber plates and M performance HAS suspension and the front suspension sounds terrible. On bumpy roads there is very noticeable knocking/clunking noises coming from both passenger and driver sides. Sounds like a 20 year old car with bad ball joints/end links. We checked everything and it all looks ok, bolts are all torqued and springs properly seated.
You sure the monoball housing isn't worn allowing some play like in the video below? Those plates certainly don't look new (did you get them used?).
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      02-25-2020, 04:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
You sure the monoball housing isn't worn allowing some play like in the video below? Those plates certainly don't look new (did you get them used?).
To be honest I didn't check before mounting them. They are not new they were on my last M3 for 2 years but they were new when I bought them. They look older than they are because of the harsh winters here. I'm guessing the only way to check the housing is to drop the suspension again huh?
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      02-25-2020, 07:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantix View Post
To be honest I didn't check before mounting them. They are not new they were on my last M3 for 2 years but they were new when I bought them. They look older than they are because of the harsh winters here. I'm guessing the only way to check the housing is to drop the suspension again huh?
You can check without removing the suspension, like I did in the video, by jacking up and letting down the wheel with the front of the car in the air and seeing if the ball moves up/down in the housing.
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      02-29-2020, 03:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
You can check without removing the suspension, like I did in the video, by jacking up and letting down the wheel with the front of the car in the air and seeing if the ball moves up/down in the housing.
Got it checked out and surely enough bearing are loose and need to be replaced. Wish I'd checked that before reinstalling them
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      03-05-2020, 06:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
For what it's worth, I've gone through stock springs, Macht Schnell springs, Bilstein B16 Damptronic coil overs, and now MP HAS. MP HAS is the only kit for me out of those 4 that exhibits any sort of clunk sounds. It's my only disappointment with it. It's rare, but it's there. I'd imagine camber plates only make this worse, but they're noisy no matter what you put them on. Maybe the combo with MP HAS is just a perfect storm.
Did/do you have GC camber plates installed as well? Or just the MP HAS? Reason I ask is that I had HAS and front mono-balls installed at the same time. Super noisy. Clunks like crazy. Sounds worse inside the car than it does outside. I always assumed that the mono-balls was the cause. Mainly because HAS had been out for a while but I hadn’t read anything in the way of noise.

I was going to have the mono-balls install looked at next week. Perhaps this is the wrong starting point
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      03-05-2020, 06:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_ducky View Post
Did/do you have GC camber plates installed as well? Or just the MP HAS? Reason I ask is that I had HAS and front mono-balls installed at the same time. Super noisy. Clunks like crazy. Sounds worse inside the car than it does outside. I always assumed that the mono-balls was the cause. Mainly because HAS had been out for a while but I hadn’t read anything in the way of noise.

I was going to have the mono-balls install looked at next week. Perhaps this is the wrong starting point
No camber plates. But like I said, mine clunks rarely, which it never did before on my previous 3 suspensions. It's not often enough to bother me, but I'll notice it 1-2 times on a 20 minute drive when hitting a bump with the wheel turned or when the car isn't completely level and one side is compressed more than the other.
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      03-05-2020, 08:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
No camber plates. But like I said, mine clunks rarely, which it never did before on my previous 3 suspensions. It's not often enough to bother me, but I'll notice it 1-2 times on a 20 minute drive when hitting a bump with the wheel turned or when the car isn't completely level and one side is compressed more than the other.
I just installed the MP HAS kit with GC Camber Plates and I don't have any clunking noises at all - in fact my car essentially sounds like the previous stock setup (I have been listening hard for anything out of the ordinary). And I put my car through a decent "torture test" by driving to work on Washington, DC crappy streets. Your strut bearings may be going bad, which would be a source of any clunking noises...
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      03-06-2020, 06:48 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmciver View Post
I just installed the MP HAS kit with GC Camber Plates and I don't have any clunking noises at all - in fact my car essentially sounds like the previous stock setup (I have been listening hard for anything out of the ordinary). And I put my car through a decent "torture test" by driving to work on Washington, DC crappy streets. Your strut bearings may be going bad, which would be a source of any clunking noises...
No extra noise at all?

I’ve been annoyed by light clunking sounds right from the get-go since I installed my MP-HAS with GC camber plates 18 months ago. My plates were brand new, so it cannot be from bearing wear. I tried tightening the steering rack adjustment but to no avail. I assumed it was an inherent consequence of the MP-HAS and GC plates pairing. With you reporting zero noise, I now have doubts. Maybe my camber plate bearing were either faulty when new or were damaged during install. I’ll check for play on the bearings in the spring.
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      03-06-2020, 07:14 AM   #11
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jmg, how's the NVH on your setup?
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      03-06-2020, 07:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
No extra noise at all?

I’ve been annoyed by light clunking sounds right from the get-go since I installed my MP-HAS with GC camber plates 18 months ago. My plates were brand new, so it cannot be from bearing wear. I tried tightening the steering rack adjustment but to no avail. I assumed it was an inherent consequence of the MP-HAS and GC plates pairing. With you reporting zero noise, I now have doubts. Maybe my camber plate bearing were either faulty when new or were damaged during install. I’ll check for play on the bearings in the spring.
Nope, none that I can honestly ascertain with any type of significance or confidence. And I have been uber, hyper sensitive to ANY noises from the car post DIY work (usually my mind will always play tricks on me after I do DIY work ). As a caveat, my basic reference point is my (now sold) E46 M3 track car which had GC camber plates and JRZ 2-way suspension. That car "clunked" with any bump/turn combination - the loudest occurence when entering/exiting my driveway, speed bump, or something similar. So maybe my initial "clunk/noise" expectations were higher than most. But, as a result of this thread and other info on the net about additional noises post GC (and MP HAS install) I have been searching hard for it, to no avail.

After I installed the GC plates with the MP HAS, I specifically targeted known "bumps" that would cause any clunking noises, if there were any - this includes a few extra daily commutes driving in/out of Washington, DC for work in the past few days (being uber, hyper sensitive to ANY noises). After 400+ miles or so post install, I can honestly say I have no "clunks" or otherwise abnormal noise coming from the suspension.

Now any time you go over any bump there will always be some noise, per se, which is that "thud" sound that any car makes when going over a pot hole, man hole cover, etc on any average street. Even in the most luxurious ride cars you will hear something. So I suspect that technically, when going over common street bumps the "standard" noise I hear post GC/MP HAS install is technically louder than the stock configuration (this would be the additional NVH I guess). But that is a completely unscientific assessment (since I didn't measure any sound levels pre GC/MP HAS install). Other than the more firm ride, which is expected, I honestly don't feel the car sounds any different (and I am still being very sensitive to any noises coming from the car...).

My car will be professionally aligned next week by a competent race shop that actually specializes in suspension work. I plan to have them do a modest "shakedown" of my DIY install while they have it. But I suspect they will come back with nothing based on my experience thus far.
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      03-06-2020, 08:17 AM   #13
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MPHAS here on stock top hats and have had noises, some were solved, others remain a mystery.

1. Creaking noise when car is stationary but turning wheel - This was NOT due to the MPHAS but rather the strut knuckle bolt (which is a 1 time torque bolt). Following the torque specs, i would get a creaking/light popping noise when turning the steering wheel and car wasnt moving. Replaced the bolt with a new one, and gave it a little more persuasion than the recommended spec. Noise gone :-)

2. VERY slight clunking when going over uneven payment at slow speeds (cobble stones, potholes, crappy NYC craters). This usually only happens if wheels are turned slightly and car is moving. There is a clunking noise and the following hasn't helped. Note the noise is so faint that my wife doesn't hear it.
- Swaybar link - sound is consistent with loose swaybar link bolt, tightened both sides to no avail (car was jacked up, maybe it should be tightened under load instead)
- Top strut nut - its on pretty damn tight, and was tightened under load as well using the special strut nut socket. Dont want to go any tighter and potentially snap something.

Other than #2 (since #1 was solved, and not due to MPHAS), no other noises when driving on smooth roads, highways, dips, etc. Learning to live with it.
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      03-06-2020, 08:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmciver View Post
Nope, none that I can honestly ascertain with any type of significance or confidence. And I have been uber, hyper sensitive to ANY noises from the car post DIY work (usually my mind will always play tricks on me after I do DIY work ). As a caveat, my basic reference point is my (now sold) E46 M3 track car which had GC camber plates and JRZ 2-way suspension. That car "clunked" with any bump/turn combination - the loudest occurence when entering/exiting my driveway, speed bump, or something similar. So maybe my initial "clunk/noise" expectations were higher than most. But, as a result of this thread and other info on the net about additional noises post GC (and MP HAS install) I have been searching hard for it, to no avail.

After I installed the GC plates with the MP HAS, I specifically targeted known "bumps" that would cause any clunking noises, if there were any - this includes a few extra daily commutes driving in/out of Washington, DC for work in the past few days (being uber, hyper sensitive to ANY noises). After 400+ miles or so post install, I can honestly say I have no "clunks" or otherwise abnormal noise coming from the suspension.

Now any time you go over any bump there will always be some noise, per se, which is that "thud" sound that any car makes when going over a pot hole, man hole cover, etc on any average street. Even in the most luxurious ride cars you will hear something. So I suspect that technically, when going over common street bumps the "standard" noise I hear post GC/MP HAS install is technically louder than the stock configuration (this would be the additional NVH I guess). But that is a completely unscientific assessment (since I didn't measure any sound levels pre GC/MP HAS install). Other than the more firm ride, which is expected, I honestly don't feel the car sounds any different (and I am still being very sensitive to any noises coming from the car...).

My car will be professionally aligned next week by a competent race shop that actually specializes in suspension work. I plan to have them do a modest "shakedown" of my DIY install while they have it. But I suspect they will come back with nothing based on my experience thus far.
Thanks for sharing, it will definitely prompt me to do some more investigation on my car.

The noise I hear is not the normal thud when hitting bumps, it sounds normal and solid here. It is a subtle clunking/rattling when driving over small road ripples at lower speeds.
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      03-06-2020, 08:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntg44 View Post
No camber plates. But like I said, mine clunks rarely, which it never did before on my previous 3 suspensions. It's not often enough to bother me, but I'll notice it 1-2 times on a 20 minute drive when hitting a bump with the wheel turned or when the car isn't completely level and one side is compressed more than the other.
Exactly the same noises i'm getting (and described in #2 above). Hmm.. we're onto something...
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      03-06-2020, 09:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9M4N71U View Post
MPHAS here on stock top hats and have had noises, some were solved, others remain a mystery.

1. Creaking noise when car is stationary but turning wheel - This was NOT due to the MPHAS but rather the strut knuckle bolt (which is a 1 time torque bolt). Following the torque specs, i would get a creaking/light popping noise when turning the steering wheel and car wasnt moving. Replaced the bolt with a new one, and gave it a little more persuasion than the recommended spec. Noise gone :-)

2. VERY slight clunking when going over uneven payment at slow speeds (cobble stones, potholes, crappy NYC craters). This usually only happens if wheels are turned slightly and car is moving. There is a clunking noise and the following hasn't helped. Note the noise is so faint that my wife doesn't hear it.
- Swaybar link - sound is consistent with loose swaybar link bolt, tightened both sides to no avail (car was jacked up, maybe it should be tightened under load instead)
- Top strut nut - its on pretty damn tight, and was tightened under load as well using the special strut nut socket. Dont want to go any tighter and potentially snap something.

Other than #2 (since #1 was solved, and not due to MPHAS), no other noises when driving on smooth roads, highways, dips, etc. Learning to live with it.
I would describe the noises that I’m hearing as being consistent with a loose sway bar link as well. I hear something with almost any road imperfection.

Turner service (previously Turner Motorsports) are having a look at my car next week. Will report back with their findings
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      03-06-2020, 09:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_ducky View Post
I would describe the noises that I’m hearing as being consistent with a loose sway bar link as well. I hear something with almost any road imperfection.

Turner service (previously Turner Motorsports) are having a look at my car next week. Will report back with their findings
Very nice, do keep us posted
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      03-06-2020, 12:11 PM   #18
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I'll also chime in and say i do not have any noises with factory strut mounts. I had the creaking/popping noise from the strut pinch bolt and just had to retorque the pinch bolts.
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      03-06-2020, 02:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubber_ducky View Post
I would describe the noises that I’m hearing as being consistent with a loose sway bar link as well. I hear something with almost any road imperfection.

Turner service (previously Turner Motorsports) are having a look at my car next week. Will report back with their findings

This is exactly what I am hearing on every single road imperfection. I brought it to the shop and they compressed the suspension with a jack and then let it go all while carefully watching the top of the strut and camber plate and turns out there is some play in the bearings. I purchased a set of new bearings from Ground Control and they are on the way. I will report back when they are changed, I'm really hoping this takes care of it and is not inherent to MPHAS although now that someone reported that their car does not exhibit this behavior with MPHAS I am hopeful it will be resolved. Car is new as is the MPHAS so my money's on the plates.
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      03-06-2020, 02:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantix View Post
This is exactly what I am hearing on every single road imperfection. I brought it to the shop and they compressed the suspension with a jack and then let it go all while carefully watching the top of the strut and camber plate and turns out there is some play in the bearings. I purchased a set of new bearings from Ground Control and they are on the way. I will report back when they are changed, I'm really hoping this takes care of it and is not inherent to MPHAS although now that someone reported that their car does not exhibit this behavior with MPHAS I am hopeful it will be resolved. Car is new as is the MPHAS so my money's on the plates.
You might want to also get replacement strut nuts as well. Your current ones look pretty beat up from both corrosion and from being tightened down with an improper socket.
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      03-06-2020, 09:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
jmg, how's the NVH on your setup?
No clunking, no noise whatsoever at cruising and above 100 mph. Car is corner balanced and corners like never before. Harshness is expected, but not as bad as when I was on Springs alone. Road imperfections are transmitted more as well.
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      03-07-2020, 06:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmciver View Post
You might want to also get replacement strut nuts as well. Your current ones look pretty beat up from both corrosion and from being tightened down with an improper socket.
I thought about that as well. Is the nut specific to the camber plates or just a regular nut that comes with the car? If it's the latter it makes no sense that it would look like that on a 1 month old car.
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