Wax over Ceramic a waste of time and money?

[SCS55]

Yesterday I picked up my car after having Xpel Ultimate Plus installed followed by a 2 layer Ceramic Coating. Afterwards, the installer simply said don't use any cleaner wax or abrasive products for obvious reasons.

I wanted to hear from the source directly as to what if any wax or topper members use as or should I just leave it as is? The Ceramic coating feels pretty slick to the touch, but after the first wash I feel like I'll be able to improve on the slickness with wax and help prevent contaminants wearing into the Ceramic Coating.

All this because September 1st I'll be subjecting the car to a 163 mile commute down to South Florida 2 to 3 times per week and needed descent protection from the ensuing carnage such as, well water sprinkler mist driving out of the neighborhood, saltwater spray from A1A, highway cruising avoiding tire chunks, debris etc, torrential downpours and the blazing hot sun.

Xpel front, full fenders, hood, CF roof, sideviews and A pillars. 2 layer Ceramic Coating supposed to last 5 years which included wheels, barrrels and calipers.

[Iceman1183]

Anything you layer over the coating will mask the slickness/beading properties of the coating. So how your car looks will be dependent on whatever is on the top layer.

Would you buy a really expensive & effective weatherproof winter coat and then cover it up with a thin plastic poncho?

If you want to put on a layer of wax/sealant that's intended to be a sacrificial layer on your 163 mile commute, that might be reasonable. But the point of a ceramic coat is to make your life easier.

Correctly maintained ceramic coats have a solid lifespan - my advice would be to skip the extra wax layer and just be diligent with your wash routine/frequency.

[gatorfast]

OP hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think you should prepare yourself for some imperfections coming your way. With that type of you commute you are going to get some rock chips/scuffs and a dirty car considering how much it rains here. I have ppf on my front bumper and while it does a fantastic job overall there are still several spots where large items have ripped the film. Its bound to happen with all that highway driving and road debris/rocks/construction.

That said, just learn to accept these minor imperfections and enjoy your car!

[Clark_Kent]

Which ceramic coating is it?

Most, if not all ceramic coatings have a quick detailer product which serves as maintenance for the ceramic coating. I would use this product at some frequency after washes. I would not recommend waxing it.

Also, be advised the coating on the wheels and calipers will not last 5 years. More like 2-3 years max.

[Eric S]

All coatings have a shorter lifespan when subjected to harsher environments.

No coating should be topped with a sealant or a wax

Use a coating topper, like m2blast, Supreme Detail Supply Ceramic Boost, Gtechniq liquid crystal, etc instead of a spray wax.

If it was me, I would use the coating topper the night before the longer commutes, then wash the car when I returned home.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

OP hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think you should prepare yourself for some imperfections coming your way. With that type of you commute you are going to get some rock chips/scuffs and a dirty car considering how much it rains here. I have ppf on my front bumper and while it does a fantastic job overall there are still several spots where large items have ripped the film. Its bound to happen with all that highway driving and road debris/rocks/construction.

That said, just learn to accept these minor imperfections and enjoy your car!

Gator...Thx. I'm on the mindset that it's just a base model run of the mill M3 and not a spec'd out Comp model. And it's only going to continue to depreciate as the years go on. That, and the fact that my previous E46 took 3 years and a lot of coin to have it in mint condition and looking back I wish I had driven it more to at least enjoy all the parts I sank into it.

I've thought about a beater car but I spent 270,000 miles in a Honda Odyssey and looking back it was drudgery on long trips. I do have my wife's 335 to mix it up with. If the drive becomes a disaster and trashing the M3 stresses me out, I'll look into a relief car.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by SCS55

Gator...Thx. I'm on the mindset that it's just a base model run of the mill M3 and not a spec'd out Comp model. And it's only going to continue to depreciate as the years go on. That, and the fact that my previous E46 took 3 years and a lot of coin to have it in mint condition and looking back I wish I had driven it more to at least enjoy all the parts I sank into it.

I've thought about a beater car but I spent 270,000 miles in a Honda Odyssey and looking back it was drudgery on long trips. I do have my wife's 335 to mix it up with. If the drive becomes a disaster and trashing the M3 stresses me out, I'll look into a relief car.

I think you have the right attitude. The fun of driving the M3 is worth the occasional rock chip. I'm at 68k miles on mine and do about 16k miles annually, wouldn't have it any other way.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Which ceramic coating is it?

Most, if not all ceramic coatings have a quick detailer product which serves as maintenance for the ceramic coating. I would use this product at some frequency after washes. I would not recommend waxing it.

Also, be advised the coating on the wheels and calipers will not last 5 years. More like 2-3 years max.

Feynlab Plus. I'll get on their website to see if they have their own Ceramic friendly detail spray to use for bug removal.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by SCS55

Feynlab Plus. I'll get on their website to see if they have their own Ceramic friendly detail spray to use for bug removal.

https://www.feynlab.com/product/detailer_17/

[N55Msport]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

https://www.feynlab.com/product/detailer_17/

Thanks

[moonluv810]

I know this may not be the popular vote and norm.

I applied 3 layers of CQuartz UK ver 3 and added a layer of Reload after 5 days of curing.

I wash my car weekly and apply a layer of P21 carnauba wax every month or so.
I look at it as a mind therapy for me and plus as another sacrificial layer.

[FLOSS M]

Usually with a coating you do not wax. That being said, you need to apply a product like Reload from Carpro after every few washes. I apply after every wash. I have Nanaolex Si3HD

[Eric S]

our new favorite is the supreme detail supply ceramic boost. Its not watered down like a lot of other products on the market. It really is legit gloss and protection

https://www.supremedetailsupply.com/shop/ceramic-boost

[N55Msport]

Update: I did my first post Ceramic wash today and while rinsing the car off using a hose with no nozzle (flow rinse method) the water shedding was quite unbelievable. The water literally fell off the car in sheets at an amazing speed. Splashing water on the hood it looked like the water was bouncing off the PPF/coating. I've had proper coatings of wax on my cars before but this was amazing.

That being said, I basically answered my question by realizing after washing the car any wax on top of the ceramic would be an exercise in squandering my time. If anything, later on down the road I'll look into a ceramic reloader probably from the manufacturer. Until then, I will use a detail spray on the front impact areas to remove bugs that stick.

Thank's for everyone's replies, very impressed with the results.

[N55Msport]

Originally Posted by moonluv810

I know this may not be the popular vote and norm.

I applied 3 layers of CQuartz UK ver 3 and added a layer of Reload after 5 days of curing.

I wash my car weekly and apply a layer of P21 carnauba wax every month or so.
I look at it as a mind therapy for me and plus as another sacrificial layer.

I can relate to the mind therapy. Fortunately I'll still be waxing my wife's car.

[PhatLyfe]

too much work & $$$, PPF is not good enough for any kind of armor against rock chips.. I too was looking into PPF, and for $2400 for partial an $5k for full was not justifiable in my opinion. For what it worth, I don't race or track my vert, it's a weekend car. a clean car is good enough with some wax.. all these ceramic coating on top of PPF, why? more layers that offer not much.. I'd rather get the whole car painted in the worse case scenario.. by the way your insurance company will not pay for PPF in case of damage unless you let them know upfront for optional items installed = plus in insurance premium hike. Just enjoy the car.. there will be a scratch sooner or later.. get a DR chip touch up paint kit. $5k is alot of money to invest with no return. get some touchless wash/wax and your good to go.. I don't plan on selling the car, probably will get passed down to my son afterwards..

[MrSmartyPants]

Originally Posted by PhatLyfe

too much work & $$$, PPF is not good enough for any kind of armor against rock chips.. I too was looking into PPF, and for $2400 for partial an $5k for full was not justifiable in my opinion. For what it worth, I don't race or track my vert, it's a weekend car. a clean car is good enough with some wax.. all these ceramic coating on top of PPF, why? more layers that offer not much.. I'd rather get the whole car painted in the worse case scenario.. by the way your insurance company will not pay for PPF in case of damage unless you let them know upfront for optional items installed = plus in insurance premium hike. Just enjoy the car.. there will be a scratch sooner or later.. get a DR chip touch up paint kit. $5k is alot of money to invest with no return. get some touchless wash/wax and your good to go.. I don't plan on selling the car, probably will get passed down to my son afterwards..

PPF absolutely works and has value. No, it won't stop larger rocks, but it will minimize the damage and smaller stuff doesn't get to the paint. My windshield looks like shit, but my paint looks great.

I got hit last year and the insurance company paid for the PPF replacement too.

[SCS55]

Originally Posted by MrSmartyPants

PPF absolutely works and has value. No, it won't stop larger rocks, but it will minimize the damage and smaller stuff doesn't get to the paint. My windshield looks like shit, but my paint looks great.

I got hit last year and the insurance company paid for the PPF replacement too.

Did your insurance company know of the PPF prior to the accident?
I for one don't need a rate hike

[MrSmartyPants]

Originally Posted by SCS55

Did your insurance company know of the PPF prior to the accident?
I for one don't need a rate hike

No. Didn't feel the need to tell them.

[PhatLyfe]

Originally Posted by MrSmartyPants

No. Didn't feel the need to tell them.

It's an aftermarket option put on the car, you need to let them know as per your contract with the insurance company.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by PhatLyfe

too much work & $$$, PPF is not good enough for any kind of armor against rock chips.. I too was looking into PPF, and for $2400 for partial an $5k for full was not justifiable in my opinion. For what it worth, I don't race or track my vert, it's a weekend car. a clean car is good enough with some wax.. all these ceramic coating on top of PPF, why? more layers that offer not much.. I'd rather get the whole car painted in the worse case scenario.. by the way your insurance company will not pay for PPF in case of damage unless you let them know upfront for optional items installed = plus in insurance premium hike. Just enjoy the car.. there will be a scratch sooner or later.. get a DR chip touch up paint kit. $5k is alot of money to invest with no return. get some touchless wash/wax and your good to go.. I don't plan on selling the car, probably will get passed down to my son afterwards..

For a weekend car I would agree, PPF is probably not worth it as you arent putting many miles on it nor are you driving in daily traffic where stone chips are most likely to occur. But on a daily driver the ppf will prevent a ton of rock chips, especially if you do a lot of highway driving.

Also, the full car is absolutely not necessary and is considerably more expensive than doing just the high impact areas on the front end.

[Eric S]

We do a lot of full front and 1 or 2 step corrections along with paint and wheel coating packages. Full cars are great for the track toys, canyon drivers, etc.
Rear bumper is one area that is a good idea to have done as well - for protection against other drivers in parking lots or rear impact taps (obviously a 40mph rear impact you are toast)

Our outlook on it...$2500-3000 for polish, full front, and coating is much more palatable than 8k for full correction, full body custom install, top of the line coatings, etc. BUT, to each his own...its your money and the more you spend, the more you get, the better the outcome!