Detailed M4 Track Review - Back from Spa and Nurburgring

[karussell]

Originally Posted by ersin

Now, after having some 2 weeks or so with the car, you have to wait for it to come over on the boat. I'll bet it's gonna be a long hard wait. That's about the only bad thing about doing ED.

Thanks for review.


Cheers.

I'm not new to euro delivery and honestly the wait for this car is probably the hardest yet.

[dhoggm3]

Thanks for taking the time to write an excellent review. It's great for us track guys to know this.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

Great review with substance. I share your love for the RS and pretty much was buying this car for the street, but now I am getting excited about tracking it as well. I ordered the passive suspension and believe I can still change. Have you compared? I was not fond of the adaptive suspension on the e92 and test drove a car with passive suspension and it was planted. But not a lot of money so if it is really better I would not hesitate to change my order. Thanks again for the excellent write up.

The adaptive suspension adjusts damping independently on each corner every 2.5ms using a variety of sensors. its also lighter than the standard steel shocks. where this comes into play the most is when you have something unexpected such as a slick area on a track, or you cross onto some smooth painted concrete. they say no lap is the same on the nordschleife. in a sense that case is true everywhere. this suspension had a lot of work put into it and feedback from DTM and F1 drivers. I wholeheartedly endorse them and i would wager its hard for any aftermarket company to come up with a suspension system that would show a tangible performance improvement over them without costing serious money and giving up the comfort for a street car.

[mdss6]

Originally Posted by karussell

my pleasure. just my opinion. can't wait to get it stateside and back on the tracks on east coast.

i'll post some photos later or one of the guys from the trip can do that for me. we got plenty. lots of videos too.

Karussell,
thanks for the detailed and thoughtful evaluation of the track capabilities of the F8X.

Also thank you for letting me borrow your helmet at Spa! And Soccerdad for the best "Taxi" ride ever. The first-hand experience of Soccerdad chasing you around the circuit was something I'll always remember.

I've completed several open track weekends at Spa-Francorchamps, and three things stood out dramatically from my laps in the passenger seat.
1. The performance from the stock brakes was spectacular. I didn't know how they would stand up to a day of tracking until I read this review, but I can attest that they were being worked very hard. If my end of day laps were at all typical then they are truly first class.
2. The limit handling is quite forgiving. Soccerdad quickly convinced me he is a better driver than I, but he made many adjustments that would have had my track 928 in the wall. And it is reasonably well balanced. His M3 tolerated inputs, and completed moves, that were...well my quick impress was that it was the most track capable regular M3 ever, caveated that it was a quick impression. I find Karussell's infinitely more well researched and supported opinion to be completely credible.
3. It is brutally fast and powerful. "Duh" right? Still the impression was strong and immediate.

With the invite to post photos I offer these. Thanks again for being a gracious and generous host.

[Np2014]

Awesome review and thanks for the honest feedback! My question is what two things would you change on this vehicle if you were in charge of the M division aside from your complaints on the tires. Thanks

[karussell]

Originally Posted by Np2014

Awesome review and thanks for the honest feedback! My question is what two things would you change on this vehicle if you were in charge of the M division aside from your complaints on the tires. Thanks

on the contrary i have no complaints on the tires. MPSS are excellent in their use as a track tire and street tire in both dry and wet conditions. even narrower wheel width up front doesn't affect the cars ability to be neutral in all but the most difficult of decreasing radius corners on the 3 tracks we have driven. I have a set of 10.5" wide x 19" forgelines that i am anxious to try on the car however. I think this will be an optimal setup for autocross or tight technical tracks.

The very nature of an M3 is it must be able to be equally at home on the race track and driving on public roads. To that effect I think the M engineers did an excellent job on this car and I don't think I could improve on it.

Given i'm certainly more biased to a track oriented car i would have liked the option for a lighter weight and even more supportive seat to be available as an option like the GT2 seats offered in all Porsche GT cars.

Naturally a lighter weight version of the car with some more power would be awesome and i'm hopeful we will see such a car on US soil this time around. having it called a CSL would be icing on the cake.

[karussell]

[ss134]

Couple of questions if I may:

How did the car feel at speed on the Autobahn in comparison to the E90 both stability wise and top end pulling power? ( above 100mph did the car pull harder than the E90 as the S65 was really in it's element at high speeds)

Where did you get the 1200 mile service done and what was the cost?

Thanks.

[Np2014]

A lot of members on this forum are worried about heat soak from track usage do you see this as a valid concern?

[modkrazy]

Glad to hear a positive review, and I'm super-happy to hear the car doesn't have overheating issues, which was my biggest concern. I have to wonder, though, how much of this is hype from post-coital bliss after getting a brief exposure to a new toy? A lot of the points seem a tad forced just to dig at the old car in favor of the new, especially after a post history of glowing approbation for M cars. Now it is suddenly lethargic and gutless at the track? Is it really that "heavier" of a platform? Clearly the weight issue hasn't been addressed to your satisfaction if you are hoping for a CSL version (aren't we all). Just throwing it out there.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by Np2014

A lot of members on this forum are worried about heat soak from track usage do you see this as a valid concern?

It was a concern going in and one of the cases I wanted to check for. There was no identifiable power loss I could identify throughout the day. The car pulled hard lap after lap. I was running race keeper data acquisition on the car and i will examine everything closely throughout the day.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

Glad to hear a positive review, and I'm super-happy to hear the car doesn't have overheating issues, which was my biggest concern. I have to wonder, though, how much of this is hype from post-coital bliss after getting a brief exposure to a new toy? A lot of the points seem a tad forced just to dig at the old car in favor of the new, especially after a post history of glowing approbation for M cars. Now it is suddenly lethargic and gutless at the track? Is it really that "heavier" of a platform? Clearly the weight issue hasn't been addressed to your satisfaction if you are hoping for a CSL version (aren't we all). Just throwing it out there.

If anything I was most keen on seeing where the car would fall short and i did my best to test the typical weaknesses found in modern M cars. Naturally I can't be completely unbiased. I'm only human. but i can say i don't have any reason to hide a shortfall either. The car clearly has been improved over its predecessor in every category. I'm not digging at the old car its just the most recent car i have a lot of experience with on the same tracks. I always thought the E9X was a good car but it was heavy and the move to a V8 was to compensate for the weight gain at the expense of terrible fuel economy. this car feels lighter. i will put it on scales when i get back but mine is on 18" wheels. no options other than adaptive suspension. and in comparing the two cars directly on the track the E92 is noticeably slower in every single portion of the track. thats not bashing it. thats my observation.

i'm happy with this car quite a bit. i always want an improved version. the best way to improve it is to make it lighter still. nothing wrong with that.

[karussell]

posted on front page. money shot from Spa Francorchamps. what a car!

Originally Posted by karussell

Finally uncompressed a little after a very busy 2 week trip across the pond. I wanted to write my impressions on the car while everything is still fresh in my mind.

Background. I'm not biased towards any brand of auto. I evaluate all types of cars and the badge on them is the least of my concerns. its not even on the radar. I have however owned and driven and/or raced M3's from every generation up to the F82.

The F8X M3/M4 is the best BMW sports car I have ever driven. In fact I will say its my second favorite car I have ever driven. I am utterly shocked at how good this car is. The M3 has always been a jack of all trades but master of none. This new generation of M3/M4 however raises the bar so high it eliminates any reason for keeping a dedicated track car.

Not since the E30 M3 could you take a bone stock M car right off the production floor and onto a race track and expect it to perform lap after lap. Well the F82 M4 is classic M for motorsport and this is exactly what we were able to do with this car. I managed up to 12 back to back laps between Sabine and myself driving the car hard and there was never a problem with brake fade or overheating. in fact the car never reached the middle mark on the oil temp gauge throughout the day. A stock E92 M3 would be done on the 4th lap at this pace with a spongy brake pedal. Not only did the car endure the 12 laps of hell we put it through it repeatedly performed lap after lap of taxi rides throughout an 8 hour period. no cool down laps. drove in hot. maybe sat for a few minutes and then back out. absolutely the toughest conditions imaginable.

In classic M3 and in general BMW style the F8X begs to be pushed to the limit and excellently communicates that limit with the driver. As with all previous M3's you can push past the limit slightly and back dancing on a sine wave of slip angles and tire squealing. The difference now is that limit has been pushed far higher than any M car before it. At ludicrous speeds this car still begs to go faster. In a Porsche usually at these speeds you breath a sigh of relief that you survived. With the M4 you think well I think I can try that a little faster still. Every driving dynamic of the new M3/M4 is confidence inspiring. And I can't think of a better compliment for a sports car.

Electric Power Asssisted Steering - One of my previous concerns based on driving F30's. The steering on the new M3 is the most accurate and has the best feedback of any steering unit no matter how its assisted I have ever driven. If we call electric power steering digital then the F8X steering is High Definition. Porsche needs to rethink how they implemented the 991's steering feel which I previously thought was okay for electric. I haven't driven the new 991 GT3 yet but the standard 991 and S models cant hold a candle to the unit in this car.

F8X 9/10
E9X M 8/10

Manual Vs. DCT - DCT cars I have driven is better than ever. It still feels slower than the Manual to me however that may be just the gearing. Good system. Still I prefer 3 pedal. The manual on the new cars is greatly improved also over the E92 and E46. the clutch pedal feels like its weighted now. gear shifts are direct and not spongy. the lever could use a slightly shorter throw and some weight in the handle but my preference. seating position is optimal for shifting.

F8X
DCT - 8/10
Manual - 9/10

E9X M
DCT - 8/10
Manual - 7/10

Adaptive Suspension - I got to have a chat with a test engineer at the ring nearly a year ago. He told me the adaptive suspension would be very special on the new M3/M4. Its had so much development time and tuning on the ring with great help from the DTM drivers. It was the only real option I ordered on the car. I can say this suspension is a masterpiece of M engineering. no matter the surface or corner type or condition this suspension works. The car is always neutral even with the narrower front tires. I don't see the need or justification for any type of aftermarket suspension on this car other than for aesthetic purposes.

F8X - 10/10
E9X M - 8/10

Engine - well the heart and the soul of a car is the engine and by far its the biggest contested item here and i heard the debate over and over in many languages over the past 2 weeks. my personal opinion is the new S55 is the best M motor ever. I do not miss the S65 at all. The new motor rips and snorts and is angry. there are pops when you lift off the throttle and hissing noises when you stand on it. the throttle response shouldn't even be called response. its throttle telepathy. acceleration is manic. someone told this engine its not worthy of being an M engine so its working overtime all the time to prove its worthy of the S designation. The noises inside and outside the cabin higher rpm is music to my ears. i guess quite literally since its also piped through the speakers...but i sure can't tell. it sounds pretty damn good on the outside too. turbo lag is non existent. the motor still loves to rev and if you aren't careful even in second gear in motion when you squeeze the throttle too quickly it will happily fishtail. 3rd gear chirps also possible. the car out accelerates a 997.1 Turbo in 3rd gear up ex-muhle which is a particularly important corner in the nordschleife. also in my brief impromptu tests with other drivers it pulls on a C63 quite easily and even manages to keep up to my friends F10 M5....however its by no means accurate. simply put the car is fast. E92 on the track at any corner at any speed should watch their mirrors for much faster traffic. The S65 has great throttle response in itself but with such a heavy platform and its lower torque I always found the E9X M a bit lethargic when compared to its predecessors.

F8X - 10/10
E9X M - 9/10


Brakes - stock lap after lap no fade. confidence inspiring. the ceramics are not needed. track work will need a slightly more aggressive pad than stock only because the stock pads will wear quickly with aggressive driving. modulation is superb. brake bias is slightly higher in rear than I prefer. rear end will wiggle when threshold braking. but i am just shocked to be talking about such minute things on oem Brake system for any BMW. the fact they work on multiple tracks back-to-back over several days is truly amazing. Porsche is no longer the sole king in the brake department.

F8X- 9.5/10
E9X M - 7/10

Overall - The maniacs at BMW M have created a masterpiece with the F8X M3/M4. It truly is an every day usable super car. They took every concern and complaint over the past model and the new technologies on this car, perfected them and then turned the dial to 11. I threw everything I could at this car and it asked for more every time. The only limitations I see the car has are the tires as it is begging for more width and stickier rubber and the speed limiter. throw in a set of endurance pads and the car is ready for 24 hours at your favorite race track.

F8X - 9.5/10 - would be higher but i need room for the CSL version!
E9X M - 8/10

My only request for BMW ///M now is to build an F82 CSL and sell them in the US please!

[m3heaven]

Did you get the 1200 break in service done over there?

[ersin]

This was 12 laps of the Nordschleife, no? So the natural question is: did you break 7:52 on any of those laps?


Cheers.

[gthal]

Awesome review... can't wait to get mine to the track!

[GBPackerfan1963]

Write ups like these make my wait for my September ED even more excruciating. I got to go and hop in my E39 M5 and rip up some asphalt. Sedan_Clan turn your head, I don't need a ticket.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by karussell

If anything I was most keen on seeing where the car would fall short and i did my best to test the typical weaknesses found in modern M cars. Naturally I can't be completely unbiased. I'm only human. but i can say i don't have any reason to hide a shortfall either. The car clearly has been improved over its predecessor in every category. I'm not digging at the old car its just the most recent car i have a lot of experience with on the same tracks. I always thought the E9X was a good car but it was heavy and the move to a V8 was to compensate for the weight gain at the expense of terrible fuel economy. this car feels lighter. i will put it on scales when i get back but mine is on 18" wheels. no options other than adaptive suspension. and in comparing the two cars directly on the track the E92 is noticeably slower in every single portion of the track. thats not bashing it. thats my observation.

i'm happy with this car quite a bit. i always want an improved version. the best way to improve it is to make it lighter still. nothing wrong with that.

That you for the mature and measured response. I was just thinking about editing my post seeing how sensitive some folks are on this forum, but I see you took it in the spirit it was meant. Looking forward to more impressions (and videos!) from someone who sees the track way more than I do.

[Racer20]

I haven't had mine on the track yet, but I agree with your review, including the details. This car is phenomenal.

[curehead]

Great review, especially since it comes from an experienced race driver. I have so far only test driven the new M3 for about 50mins but i agree with (and therefore believe) everything karrussel has said. Its an honest review, and i think everyone wishes for a slightly more stripped down version of the M3.

Anyway, hope this is not a stupid question and maybe it was said somewhere and i overlooked it but did you complete break in before tracking the car or did you track the car before break-in was completed, and therefore did not push it to the very extreme?

P.s. Am glad about the positive review of the steel brakes!

[Tornrider]

Karussell, I just got back from testdriving the new M3 (the dealer did not allow me to rev past 4k rpm).

Based on my observations, you are right-the car is FAST (especially with that torque) down low, the DCT is great!. The steering feels fantastic so no complains there. My driving was on the street + a quick blast on the highway so my opinion on the steering feel may not matter.

HOWEVER, the experience was one that left me feeling cold. It did not feel special. A lot of that may be due to the turbos. Clinical is one way I would describe it. It felt like a 335+ to me (albeit with more power)

Note: I did not drive the car on the track so my opinion may be categorized as useless but I am at point where the E46 is getting to be a pain. Definitely need to sell and move on. However, I'm still not sold on the F8x.

I wasn't crazy about the E9x either BUT it did feel mighty special. Could not live with that miserable MPG though.

[Oakleyguy]

Originally Posted by Tornrider

Karussell, I just got back from testdriving the new M3 (the dealer did not allow me to rev past 4k rpm).

HOWEVER, the experience was one that left me feeling cold. It did not feel special. A lot of that may be due to the turbos. Clinical is one way I would describe it. It felt like a 335+ to me (albeit with more power)

Note: I did not drive the car on the track so my opinion may be categorized as useless but I am at point where the E46 is getting to be a pain. Definitely need to sell and move on. However, I'm still not sold on the F8x.

I wasn't crazy about the E9x either BUT it did feel mighty special. Could not live with that miserable MPG though.

Counter point, how many cars are going to feel special under 4k rpm? There's no way to get a feel from any car just puttering around on the street under 4k.