Is Stock M4 a good track car?

[krnnerdboy]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Lots if you are serious about going to the track a lot.From what I have seen with ceramics on Porsches.They do not last long enough for the extra expense of replacing rotors & pads over the steel brakes.They do have a finite life like any wear item.

The porsche ceramics are usually good for leisurely track guys. About 10 track days a year in advanced group is fine.


I had an e46 m3, Miata, and mr2s for dedicated tracks cars, but I only get out 10x a year so it was more like 10hours working on cars to 1 hr of driving. Not to mention my s54 blowing up from rod bearing issues. So I bought the f80 to take on track and daily drive with a full warranty.

I Cleaned up my driveway and I have a lot more time to spend with my family now! I run advanced and am in the 2:02 range on my f80 at button willow on stock pads and tires. I'll be buying some pads and wheels/tires for future events, but it has performed flawlessly.

Pads fade the first lap if you have mdm on but they were solid when I went back to back on 2 sessions after I had a forum member have a hot lap session in it first, and then followed by my session. Hope that helps

[MasterP]

Melted stock pads and warped front rotors @ the track on stock F80 with upgraded fluid.

Not enough camber in the front, MPSS is a predictable tire, but lacks grip.

Power Delivery is excellent, solid Chassis.

Absolutely need upgraded pads and Fluids. There is no brake ducting or air diverting on this car. I think it's this car's biggest flaw for this use.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Lots if you are serious about going to the track a lot.From what I have seen with ceramics on Porsches.They do not last long enough for the extra expense of replacing rotors & pads over the steel brakes.They do have a finite life like any wear item.

Which versions of the ceramics on Porsche's have you observed? Also, do you know how the drivers were treating those ceramics in terms of pads, measuring rotor heat and managing cooling?

I haven't been able to gather enough data to come to any conclusion as of yet, and I think there are significant differences between so called 'ceramics' where I am not able to make definitive statements. For example, my iron rotors on my Porsches would last about 1K to 1.1K track miles, replacements cost for rotors were about $2K for fronts (OEM), I do not know that CCB rotors will not last 2 or 3K track miles if rotor heat is kept below 1100F; and not to mention caliper life in this of course, which ceramic rotors are supposed to help also prolong.

Any way, I am not looking to derail this thread, sorry.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by TrakBch

Melted stock pads and warped front rotors @ the track on stock F80 with upgraded fluid.

Not enough camber in the front, MPSS is a predictable tire, but lacks grip.

Power Delivery is excellent, solid Chassis.

Absolutely need upgraded pads and Fluids. There is no brake ducting or air diverting on this car. I think it's this car's biggest flaw for this use.

You more than likely did not warp your rotors. Rotors the size and robustness as the ones found on the F8X are quite resistant to warping. You probably experienced bad pad deposit resulting in the use of a pad that could not sustain the heat generated. The stock pads are just not designed for track use, it is even stated in the owner's manual. If the pad deposit is not too severe, it will go away after a few weeks of street driving.

My experience with the PSS is not so much that it lacks grip, but rather that it overheats on its outer (softer compound) thread blocks and just melts and chunks away.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by FTS

Which versions of the ceramics on Porsche's have you observed? Also, do you know how the drivers were treating those ceramics in terms of pads, measuring rotor heat and managing cooling?

I haven't been able to gather enough data to come to any conclusion as of yet, and I think there are significant differences between so called 'ceramics' where I am not able to make definitive statements. For example, my iron rotors on my Porsches would last about 1K to 1.1K track miles, replacements cost for rotors were about $2K for fronts (OEM), I do not know that CCB rotors will not last 2 or 3K track miles if rotor heat is kept below 1100F; and not to mention caliper life in this of course, which ceramic rotors are supposed to help also prolong.

Any way, I am not looking to derail this thread, sorry.

I do not know what version of the Porsche ceramics were the issue but it was on a 997 Turbo S that I had instructed on before.He was quite aggressive on R compound tires and was complaining about vibration when they got warm.He had done about 10 track days at this point and discovered the front rotors were out of spec and needed to be changed.Once he found out the pricing of the new rotors he converted the car over to steel rotors & pads for less than one replacement ceramic rotor.
I am a very aggressive braker and I would get about 30 hours out of front rotors on my E92 M3 that had a Stoptech 380mm/355 setup with a Pagid RS 14/29 pad combo.This setup worked very well with very good confidence inspiring brake action under all circumstances except for a bit of pad knockback after curb hopping.I intend to run a Pagid setup on the M4 with needing only a fluid change to work as well as the BBK on my previous M3.

[MasterP]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

You more than likely did not warp your rotors. Rotors the size and robustness as the ones found on the F8X are quite resistant to warping. You probably experienced bad pad deposit resulting in the use of a pad that could not sustain the heat generated. The stock pads are just not designed for track use, it is even stated in the owner's manual. If the pad deposit is not too severe, it will go away after a few weeks of street driving.

My experience with the PSS is not so much that it lacks grip, but rather that it overheats on its outer (softer compound) thread blocks and just melts and chunks away.

Yes. I'm familiar with pad deposits. I own three rotor hones in various grits for that purpose. We used them on my rotors to clean the surface up afterwards. Brakes were still not right. Took them to the dealer, the tech confirmed they were out of spec and I got new OEM pads and rotors.

This is not my usual track vehicle but I wanted to try it just to get an idea of the potential of the platform.

[Strangec]

Has anyone found tires that work better for track use with the stock suspension and camber setup? The MPSS definitely melt on the outer edge.

[phyek]

Great track car out of the box. You don't need to swap your pads. I'm not sure why the majority of people here recommend swapping the pads. I just took my car out this weekend on stock pads and they worked great, even had an instructor confirm this. I'd recommend flushing your brake fluid though. Don't worry about track mods until you are more experienced. You won't be pushing this car to its limits anyways until you've got a lot of seat time under your belt.

[Strangec]

Originally Posted by phyek

Great track car out of the box. You don't need to swap your pads. I'm not sure why the majority of people here recommend swapping the pads. I just took my car out this weekend on stock pads and they worked great, even had an instructor confirm this. I'd recommend flushing your brake fluid though. Don't worry about track mods until you are more experienced. You won't be pushing this car to its limits anyways until you've got a lot of seat time under your belt.

Great track car, but its shows its limits when pushed hard. The OEM pads worked fine for some, but as speeds and braking aggressiveness increase, the stock pads overheat and leave pad deposits. Additionally, the MPSS turned to grease and chunked. On the track I run, on the large circuit the M4 hits 154MPH on the straight then on to some fast then some tight turns. IME you'll overhead pads before fluid.

I appreciate the advice to stick with the OEM setup, but its just not handling it for me.

[tchiers]

Originally Posted by Strangec

Has anyone found tires that work better for track use with the stock suspension and camber setup? The MPSS definitely melt on the outer edge.

I'm on NT01, there are others here on RE71R and R888R.

Stock suspension is going to wear the front outside shoulders excessively no matter the tire. You need camber plates to fix this issue or just tolerate the tire wear.

[Racer20]

You can be an advanced driver and still stay within the limits of a bone stock car. Being a good driver means taking the car you're driving right up to the limit as consistently as possible, regardless of where those limits are. Even F1 drivers have to manage their brakes, tires, and fuel loads throughout a race. Putting better parts on your car only means exactly that . . . your car has better parts. I'll run faster lap times with my bone stock F80 than many of the people on here with their track pads and sticky tires.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Racer20

You can be an advanced driver and still stay within the limits of a bone stock car. Being a good driver means taking the car you're driving right up to the limit as consistently as possible, regardless of where those limits are. Even F1 drivers have to manage their brakes, tires, and fuel loads throughout a race. Putting better parts on your car only means exactly that . . . your car has better parts. I'll run faster lap times with my bone stock F80 than many of the people on here with their track pads and sticky tires.

Still, aren't you killing your expensive PSS in the process?

I mean, I like the extra grip the Nittos provide, or I should say the extra confidence boost, but the real reason I got them is so I keep the PSS happy on the street.

[phyek]

Originally Posted by Racer20

You can be an advanced driver and still stay within the limits of a bone stock car. Being a good driver means taking the car you're driving right up to the limit as consistently as possible, regardless of where those limits are. Even F1 drivers have to manage their brakes, tires, and fuel loads throughout a race. Putting better parts on your car only means exactly that . . . your car has better parts. I'll run faster lap times with my bone stock F80 than many of the people on here with their track pads and sticky tires.

Well said. Couldn't be more true. Get the technique down before you start upgrading your parts. The stock M4 is more than enough for a novice driver.

[FLOSS M]

Car holds up great..... camber plates makes a huge difference