Closest upgraded turbos to stock?

[theweebabySeamus]

All fairness, I hear more stories of failure from Pure than any s55 turbo maker out there and they are still considered to have a great reputation.

[chetrickerman]

Originally Posted by Track/S

You are mixing things, turbos break for many reasons..... mosselman and full race have not invented anything new, in fact mosselman use parts from the Adolf Hitler era and full race chinese parts copied from the s58.

Nobody buys those turbos to put them to the limit, that's why you won't see a broken one

Like I said in the post above, I spoke with both the head engineer of the S55 MHI turbos, and im friends with Geoff at Full Race and speak with him often. I can assure you, the turbos are made in Japan, from Japanese parts. The S55 MHI turbos came out before any S58 turbos (stock or otherwise) were even close to the market.

[astris]

Originally Posted by Jiaim

Because they are much more conservative on compressor and turbine sizes, and boost levels.

Originally Posted by Track/S

You are mixing things, turbos break for many reasons..... mosselman and full race have not invented anything new, in fact mosselman use parts from the Adolf Hitler era and full race chinese parts copied from the s58.

Nobody buys those turbos to put them to the limit, that's why you won't see a broken one

Just want to note that I make over 700whp on my Mosslemans, with DI only. I also run a mid 5s in 60-130mph. Not a single hiccup so far.

[heitzke]

I went through two Pure 2+ turbos in 10k miles on a stock motor running very modest amounts of boost. First, I was leaking oil through the backing plate on the rear turbo at around 3k miles. They tossed a new CHRA in it and sent it back.

Then around 10k miles I stopped being able to build boost in an appropriate amount of time, was at least 1200rpm laggier than it was supposed to be running around 30psi. Pulled the pair for replacement and the front had a ton of axial shaft play. I could move the compressor wheel in/out when articulating it with my fingers and could hear an audible clunk.

Pure replaced the front with a completely new unit. Props to Pure for covering all the issues I had without hesitation, but it got old dealing with problems. I swapped for Mosselman as they comfortably fit my power goals. Old turbo technology or not, they make the power I want and supply an awfully nice power curve.

I'm far from the only one that had problems with Pures, as noted by the shop I work with and anecdotally across this forum. Also anecdotal, but the shop I work with suspects that most of the Pure problems are due to the S55 being prone to boost leaks and there really isn't much of a safeguard in place from overworking the turbos. Nothing to back up this claim besides them being prominent in the N54/5 and now the S55 market.

Will I eventually break a Mosselman? Who knows, i'm running around 30psi on them but we'll certainly see. So far so good.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

Like I said in the post above, I spoke with both the head engineer of the S55 MHI turbos, and im friends with Geoff at Full Race and speak with him often. I can assure you, the turbos are made in Japan, from Japanese parts. The S55 MHI turbos came out before any S58 turbos (stock or otherwise) were even close to the market.

The engineers can tell you many things, it doesn't mean it's the absolute truth.
There are 2 things that MHI does not do.

1: the compressor wheels are not marked in this way to balance.











2: They don't use turbines with hexagonal ass










If you talk to them often ask them if they have ever seen this on s55 turbos

Originally Posted by Jiaim

BTW : I love your build thread !

Thnks

[wheela]

Originally Posted by Track/S

MHI does not sell parts of its turbos to ANYONE.
The only way to get MHI parts is to disassemble an MHI turbo and use its parts.





Mosselman use very old parts, nobody uses 12 blade turbine wheels.


OP you need something with tialuminide turbine wheels.
If you are located in Europe I can make some turbos with a similar response of stock.

You mentioned titanium aluminide turbine wheels; are you aware of any other turbos besides Borg Warner EFR running titanium aluminide turbines?

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by wheela

You mentioned titanium aluminide turbine wheels; are you aware of any other turbos besides Borg Warner EFR running titanium aluminide turbines?

Above your comment I uploaded a picture of the s55 turbos with tialuminide turbine wheels.

[wheela]

Originally Posted by Track/S

Above your comment I uploaded a picture of the s55 turbos with tialuminide turbine wheels.

Do you mind sharing what s55 turbos are those? Please forgive my ignorance if the answer should be obvious, I'm n55 so not too familiar with available s55 specific options. But in general I'd be curious to know if anybody is offering TiAl turbines besides EFR's (from your post, this seems to be the case).

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by wheela

Do you mind sharing what s55 turbos are those? Please forgive my ignorance if the answer should be obvious, I'm n55 so not too familiar with available s55 specific options. But in general I'd be curious to know if anybody is offering TiAl turbines besides EFR's (from your post, this seems to be the case).

I made them with tialuminide wheels of ihi turbos.

[Jiaim]

Originally Posted by Track/S

I made them with tialuminide wheels of ihi turbos.

Ferrari 488 turbines ?

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by Jiaim

Ferrari 488 turbines ?

Subaru Legacy

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by Track/S

You are mixing things, turbos break for many reasons..... mosselman and full race have not invented anything new, in fact mosselman use parts from the Adolf Hitler era and full race chinese parts copied from the s58.

Nobody buys those turbos to put them to the limit, that's why you won't see a broken one

It doesn't appear that Full Race actually had anything to do with the design and production of the MHI turbos, they look to be the distributors for the US...near as I can tell.

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by theweebabySeamus

It doesn't appear that Full Race actually had anything to do with the design and production of the MHI turbos, they look to be the distributors for the US...near as I can tell.

I would like to know who makes them, because MHI sure does not.

[Joy15779]

Originally Posted by wheela

Do you mind sharing what s55 turbos are those? Please forgive my ignorance if the answer should be obvious, I'm n55 so not too familiar with available s55 specific options. But in general I'd be curious to know if anybody is offering TiAl turbines besides EFR's (from your post, this seems to be the case).

Mmmmmmmmmmmm.....
Wanna bet that halim will overcome 809 with Ron 100 on kratos?
I m confident

[TR930]

I run Full race turbos with a custom tune from Chet. It spools just as quick as stock but pulls much harder and longer on the top end.

[RAT3DM]

Pure used to make a turbo called Quick Spool, perhaps it may have been mentioned before, but it might be a worth giving pure a call to inquire.

I personally choose the Pure S2 HF turbos because I wanted something faster spooling than the PS2+ but I also didn't want 800whp cause at the time I didn't plan on building the motor. Imo I feel like the 650-700whp is really a sweet spot with this car still having loads of low end TQ and a good bit of top end. Some people mention lag, but honestly its negligible with this upgrade in my opinion.

I think the Mosselman's & Full Race also implement this same formula as the Pure S2 HF turbos with slight differences in internal comp/turbine wheels so I'd expect both to be pretty similar as well.

I don't like Vargas turbo products not because of the actual turbo product, but more so because of the owner Tony whom I've never interacted, but have seen several less than professional public responses to issues with his products. The positive to these turbos would once again be the redesigned exhaust manifold and not giving up your cores.

There is also the Weistec's turbo which only modifies the intake side of the turbo and I would expect these to perform very similar to stock units.

Good luck and let us know what you go with!

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by BAD_M4

Pure used to make a turbo called Quick Spool, perhaps it may have been mentioned before, but it might be a worth giving pure a call to inquire.

I personally choose the Pure S2 HF turbos because I wanted something faster spooling than the PS2+ but I also didn't want 800whp cause at the time I didn't plan on building the motor. Imo I feel like the 650-700whp is really a sweet spot with this car still having loads of low end TQ and a good bit of top end. Some people mention lag, but honestly its negligible with this upgrade in my opinion.

I think the Mosselman's are a bit better than the Pure's as they have a redesigned exhaust manifold allowing better flow and less restriction, I believe the Full Race also implement this same formula so I'd expect both to be pretty similar.

I don't like Vargas turbo products not because of the actual turbo product, but more so because of the owner Tony whom I've never interacted, but have seen several less than professional public responses to issues with his products. The positive to these turbos would once again be the redesigned exhaust manifold and not giving up your cores.

There is also the Weistec's turbo which only modifies the intake side of the turbo and I would expect these to perform very similar to stock units.

Good luck and let us know what you go with!

Thanks, great insights.

I actually called Pure about ask about the Fast Spools a couple months back and they said they only sold a few sets and did not want to make anymore. Lol, I actually have a wtb in the classifieds on the off-chance somebody has a set to get rid of.

At this point, if I go upgrades, I'm likely going Full Race. The bit I've read on their behavior indicates they are close to stock on spool and the more I research on the FR's, the more I believe they are made by MHI with MHI parts. In fact, if you buy them internationally they aren't even listed as Full Race- they're called MHI's.

[delz0r]

My stock turbos have given up and I’m a big fan of the stock quick spool. I couldn’t bring myself to replace with stock spec rebuilt turbos so I went with the closest hybrid turbos to stock I could find info on. Littco L640 (U.K. brand). According to the info I could find they seem to spool 300-500RPM slower than stock.

They’re being fitted next week. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.

[theweebabySeamus]

Originally Posted by delz0r

My stock turbos have given up and I’m a big fan of the stock quick spool. I couldn’t bring myself to replace with stock spec rebuilt turbos so I went with the closest hybrid turbos to stock I could find info on. Littco L640 (U.K. brand). According to the info I could find they seem to spool 300-500RPM slower than stock.

They’re being fitted next week. Looking forward to seeing how they perform.

Sounds good, keep us posted!

[Track/S]

Originally Posted by BAD_M4

I think the Mosselman's are a bit better than the Pure's as they have a redesigned exhaust manifold allowing better flow and less restriction, I believe the Full Race also implement this same formula so I'd expect both to be pretty similar.


There is also the Weistec's turbo which only modifies the intake side of the turbo and I would expect these to perform very similar to stock units.

Good luck and let us know what you go with!

Mosselman, pure, fullrace use OEM exhaust manifold!

Discarded weistec, the s55 turbos have very small exhaust wheels, it is necessary to change them.

[RAT3DM]

Originally Posted by Track/S

Mosselman, pure, fullrace use OEM exhaust manifold!

Discarded weistec, the s55 turbos have very small exhaust wheels, it is necessary to change them.

Good to know Track/S, thanks for those details. Updated my original post to reflect.

[TopJimmy]

Mosselman spool quick. Check out this thread.
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1955103&page=2