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      01-19-2021, 07:38 AM   #1
Simnova6
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Carbn ceramic brake upgrade

Hey guys i have a 2015 M3. was thinking of doing the carbon ceramic brakes upgrade. online I've seen something about getting an upgraded brake booster ?? the bmw tech told me I don't need that. that the brakes will just mount right up. anybody has experience with the swap ? thanks
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      01-19-2021, 08:38 AM   #2
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Have you checked the price of what it is going to cost for you to do this upgrade?
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      01-19-2021, 09:40 AM   #3
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I am going through the upgrade and you do need the CCB specific brake booster. I just purchased one for ~450 from getbmwparts. There are also couple bolts and gaskets you will need as well. I'll pay the part numbers for you later.
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      01-19-2021, 09:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simnova6 View Post
Hey guys i have a 2015 M3. was thinking of doing the carbon ceramic brakes upgrade. online I've seen something about getting an upgraded brake booster ?? the bmw tech told me I don't need that. that the brakes will just mount right up. anybody has experience with the swap ? thanks
A close buddy of mine did the swap and he did not get the ccb booster. Works fine but his pedal feel is a bit soft. My car came with ccb's from the factory and it feels much firmer. So will it work fine without the booster? Yes. But it won't provide the best feel.
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      01-19-2021, 01:42 PM   #5
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If your spending this type of money do it right. Brake booster and associated part numbers are below.

34-33-7-850-999 Booster
34-33-6-857-618 Booster Gasket
07-12-9-906-196 Brake Master Cylinder Nut
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      01-19-2021, 02:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
If your spending this type of money do it right. Brake booster and associated part numbers are below.

34-33-7-850-999 Booster
34-33-6-857-618 Booster Gasket
07-12-9-906-196 Brake Master Cylinder Nut
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      01-19-2021, 02:52 PM   #7
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There are also dust shields that are specific to the CCBs, due to the tight clearance between the caliper and the wheel. Rocks can get stuck and permanently damage the wheel, so these can help to mitigate that issue. Knowing that bit of information I picked them up. The info is below:

Part Number Part Name Price
34-11-2-284-767 Splash Shield $48.99
34-11-2-284-768 Splash Shield $48.99
34-10-6-864-424 Carrier Bolt $5.61

I decided to get new caliper carrier bolts as well as they are cheap and I'm not skimping on brakes. They are kind of important.
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      01-19-2021, 02:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eff80m3 View Post
A close buddy of mine did the swap and he did not get the ccb booster. Works fine but his pedal feel is a bit soft. My car came with ccb's from the factory and it feels much firmer. So will it work fine without the booster? Yes. But it won't provide the best feel.
That soft pedal is due to the CCBs needing more pressure to produce the same level of braking as the standards brakes. This may seem fine for normal driving, but in an emergency braking situation full brake pressure may not be available. The effort will also be amplified if they are wet, as CCBs will require even more pressure until they are dry. Although it works, I wouldn't say its safe.

Please don't go cheap on brake parts. BMW used a different booster for a reason.
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      01-19-2021, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
That soft pedal is due to the CCBs needing more pressure to produce the same level of braking as the standards brakes. This may seem fine for normal driving, but in an emergency braking situation full brake pressure may not be available. The effort will also be amplified if they are wet, as CCBs will require even more pressure until they are dry. Although it works, I wouldn't say its safe.

Please don't go cheap on brake parts. BMW used a different booster for a reason.
Interesting.

Assuming frictionless incompressible fluid (typical synthetic oil) and constant net pressure, higher velocity at a control surface would equate to less local pressure which would translate to a softer pedal. Thus, if the oil used is the same but the pressure at the pedal is different, it is either the brake pistons/mating surface/both that are creating more resistance or the flow rate by the brake booster, or both.

I just looked up the parts and dimensions for rotor diameters and brake pads are identical. This leads me to believe that the fluid velocity by CCBs brake booster could be slower than that of normal steel brakes, unless the resistance from the CCBs are far greater than that of steel brakes in which case would need a brake booster that results in faster velocity. (and still may result in firmer brake pedal)
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Last edited by kyrix1st; 01-19-2021 at 03:47 PM..
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      01-19-2021, 04:15 PM   #10
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This is an expensive mod for what you get. Is brake dust really that much of a problem?
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      01-19-2021, 04:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
This is an expensive mod for what you get. Is brake dust really that much of a problem?
OEM brake pads do dust a lot - i swapped from OEM to Hawk Street 5.0 and the dust is much reduced.

to the OP - not sure if I missed this, but why do you want to upgrade? Looks? Performance? low dust?
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      01-19-2021, 04:57 PM   #12
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Do CCBs not provide significantly better braking power, or is it mostly about brake dust?

I picked up my F80 with 3k miles on the clock. It had been preowned for 3 years, so was clearly a garage queen. Everything on the car was essentially new and the stock non-CCB brakes have been one of the most underwhelming features of the car. I would have expected MUCH better stopping power.
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      01-19-2021, 06:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RElias21 View Post
Do CCBs not provide significantly better braking power, or is it mostly about brake dust?

I picked up my F80 with 3k miles on the clock. It had been preowned for 3 years, so was clearly a garage queen. Everything on the car was essentially new and the stock non-CCB brakes have been one of the most underwhelming features of the car. I would have expected MUCH better stopping power.
I started a thread similar to your post on this a bit ago mainly because of the stopping power but also the juddering/shudder I'd get on hard decel. the issue is mainly the brake pads, swap those out to your aftermarket brand of choice and you're good for most street driving.

you'll notice many of the F8X reviews were done on CCB.
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      01-19-2021, 07:29 PM   #14
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On my past car, a F-Type SVR the CCBs were amazing. Better pedal feel and initial bite then the same model car with steel brakes. Although Jag steel brakes leave something to be desired. They even felt better then the 6 piston Alcon brakes I had on the car before. I'm hoping that BMW CCBs are close, I loved those brakes.

One thing I forgot as well is the ISTA coding needed after the retrofit. Not sure exactly what's in the coding but I'll see if I can find more information.
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      01-19-2021, 08:35 PM   #15
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f80s kind of lack in braking power. probably because the engine is so powerful. and partly due to the small front tire patch compared to other FR performance cars.

You won't really feel much of a difference with ccb for street use. But on track they'll shine more because of the reduced weight and fade resistance.

if you're just worried about dust... swap in ceramic pads.
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      01-20-2021, 12:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
...
You won't really feel much of a difference with ccb for street use. But on track they'll shine more because of the reduced weight and fade resistance.

...

Except that all I hear is the brakes may not last a weekend or two before they burn up and have to be replaced. That's probably worst case, as I feel I've heard some people talk about using them for numerous track sessions. Either way, they're still a REALLY expensive mod that only provides a little better brake fade, but on the flip side there seem to be too many reports of track use not ideal because of reduced life expectancy.
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      01-20-2021, 03:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irunalot View Post
On my past car, a F-Type SVR the CCBs were amazing. Better pedal feel and initial bite then the same model car with steel brakes. Although Jag steel brakes leave something to be desired. They even felt better then the 6 piston Alcon brakes I had on the car before. I'm hoping that BMW CCBs are close, I loved those brakes.

One thing I forgot as well is the ISTA coding needed after the retrofit. Not sure exactly what's in the coding but I'll see if I can find more information.
My past car was a RS5 with CCB and those brakes were awesome, bite at any use and easy to use. M4 with steel brakes are no really match for me.
BMW CCB's are lacking at wet streets, are very sensitive to small stones and I see meanwhile lots of disc with small crates from outbroken chips. Before I had bought my car, I'd driven few M4 with CCB in different conditions, no one came even close to my RS5 brakes. So for me an upgrade into a 12000,- Euro range is much too much for too less effort and for sure not for the prevention of the dust.
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      01-20-2021, 03:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RElias21 View Post
Do CCBs not provide significantly better braking power, or is it mostly about brake dust?

I picked up my F80 with 3k miles on the clock. It had been preowned for 3 years, so was clearly a garage queen. Everything on the car was essentially new and the stock non-CCB brakes have been one of the most underwhelming features of the car. I would have expected MUCH better stopping power.
I don't find the stock braking system to be an issue on a stock street-driven car. Three years in, the brake fluid should have been changed at least once, AND properly.

Track brake pads go a long way on these, though. Just get you some Ferodo DS pads, they're even cheaper than OE street pads and not that noisy. BMW also sells M Performance pads which, I think, are re-branded Pagids.

I'm all about detailing, but I don't find brake dust to be an issue. I normally wash the car every two weeks anyway.
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      01-20-2021, 05:49 AM   #19
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An often missed point about CCBs is weight reduction. Other than the benefits to braking itself (which are debatable at best in a street car), the real benefit of CCBs is reduction of a SIGNIFICANT amount of rotating unsprung weight.

See pics when I took off my CCBs and replaced with steel rotors. Incidentally, with CCBs, my F80CS weighed in at 3600 lbs - same weight as an M2 competition. That's wet weight including three quarter tank of gas.




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      01-20-2021, 06:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Interesting.

Assuming frictionless incompressible fluid (typical synthetic oil) and constant net pressure, higher velocity at a control surface would equate to less local pressure which would translate to a softer pedal. Thus, if the oil used is the same but the pressure at the pedal is different, it is either the brake pistons/mating surface/both that are creating more resistance or the flow rate by the brake booster, or both.

I just looked up the parts and dimensions for rotor diameters and brake pads are identical. This leads me to believe that the fluid velocity by CCBs brake booster could be slower than that of normal steel brakes, unless the resistance from the CCBs are far greater than that of steel brakes in which case would need a brake booster that results in faster velocity. (and still may result in firmer brake pedal)
I'll find the article I read on this and post it. I may be somewhere on this forum as there are a few really good treads on CCBs.
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      01-20-2021, 06:27 AM   #21
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Seems as though I had it backwards, although I did read that this another thread. I will take what BMW says and admit my mistake.

Here is what the CCB guide(attached) for the M5/M6 says about the booster:

"5.3. Brake Booster
The brake booster is specifically designed for the increased coefficient of friction of the M Carbon ceramic brake. This is why it has its own part number. Without this adaptation, the behavior of the M Carbon ceramic brakes would be rated as disproportionately aggressive."

So this leaves the question about the soft pedal. There is another thread from a week ago that discuss the need to run the ISTA DSC bleed procedure https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1785786
Attached Images
File Type: pdf M Carbon Ceramic Brake System.pdf (1.24 MB, 497 views)
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      01-20-2021, 08:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
An often missed point about CCBs is weight reduction.
With 450HP you would complain about 20kgs more?
Well, Im out
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