M4 vs TRACTION

[Karmic Man]

Yes, people find the DSC cuts in too early but that's because their tyres are in good condition.

When the tyres get half worn then the way it's been programed is actually a life saver.

When the PS2 on my 1M was fairly new, I was cursing the DSC...when the tyres starts wearing out and traction goes downhill, I was grateful for it. DSC don't come on often then and instead car has snappy oversteer left and then right within 0.5 seconds on uneven roads even on the straight.

Now the car has new PSS tyres and I am back to seeing regular DSC lights flashing.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by DaFish

You have done the same path I was going to take. Modded 335, M3, and now RS5.

Do you find the RS5 fast enough? I have been doing a lot of research on the RS5 too. The reports are pretty good and comparable to the E92 M3, except for steering feel. I may have to trade that off for traction and winter/bad weather benefits - your thoughts on this?

You feel you are losing anything going to a RS5?

I find the RS5 crazy fast, you really need to keep at it, it really scares you with all the grip at slow speeds...you push the throttle and goes like a sling shot, whereas the M3 was spinning its wheels and going nowhere.

At high speeds it's same as the M3 though, one guy with an E92 M3 was trying to race me, on straight line he couldn't pass nor I couldn't shake him off, but at the first 90 degrees slow corner, I left him in the dust, by the time he got traction I was like 10 car lenghts ahead.

On the steering feel, if the E92 M3 is at 10 on a scale of 1-10, the RS5 is at 9. So yeah, the E92 M3 is that good, but with the RS5 you're not giving out much.

All in all I am in love with the RS5, and I see it as an improvement on my former M3. To me it looks nicer, the interior is more special and luxurious, overall looks like a more expensive car than the M3.

[Maddict3]

I love the traction on my m4. btw its faster than my FBO 335is

[IEDEI]

if you want to get power down without any slippage....it sounds like you need an Audi.

[Florida135]

R888s and call it a day.

[ManAndMachine]

Nothing will put the power down like a 911,and if you feel like sliding the rear,it will do that too.It has AWD type traction out of corners without the added weight of AWD and reduced steering feel.C2S would be my pick,it's just as quick as previous gen gt3 with a better ride and everyday usability.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

Nothing will put the power down like a 911,and if you feel like sliding the rear,it will do that too.It has AWD type traction out of corners without the added weight of AWD and reduced steering feel.C2S would be my pick,it's just as quick as previous gen gt3 with a better ride and everyday usability.

That was what was soo awesome about the R8. AWD traction but also super easy to slide the rear with that 85% rear torque bias.

[accce]

3.9 to 60 and 12.1 1/4 mile would make me think you can get the power down. I have not had any track time yet but I think that if your on the edge the backend is going to get loose, but thats what the LSD is for. The track reviews all say that the back end is very controllable. Day to day driving I have not had an issue with the power. It will light the rear up in 1st if you nail it but thats only 1st gear.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by brava09

I find the RS5 crazy fast, you really need to keep at it, it really scares you with all the grip at slow speeds...you push the throttle and goes like a sling shot, whereas the M3 was spinning its wheels and going nowhere.

And that is probably just in the dry... In the wet, it would be pointless for the M3/4

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by accce

3.9 to 60 and 12.1 1/4 mile would make me think you can get the power down. I have not had any track time yet but I think that if your on the edge the backend is going to get loose, but thats what the LSD is for. The track reviews all say that the back end is very controllable. Day to day driving I have not had an issue with the power. It will light the rear up in 1st if you nail it but thats only 1st gear.

Fast times for sure. It has fast track times too. All the car mag articles, and there are more than 3 or 4, are complaining about traction. You find powering out of corners requires some patience or judicious throttle control?

Is first gear usable?

What about wet?

[DaFish]

I was out golfing today and my buddy had a 2011 911 C4S. He took me for a rip.

We turned right from a stop, No fuss, no slipping, mat it and go. Wheel is dead straight. No wiggling or torque steer. Just beautiful.

Granted the torque is nowhere near 400 ft/lbs plus.

I think I made my decision as to what comes after the 335. This is the driving dynamic I want.

We got 2 large golf bags in the back seat too.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by serieD

If you can't get 425 hp on the ground, in a 3500, and that's being nice, pound car, it's not the car, it's you.

I disagree.... My 335 has that and first gear spins, you can't modulate it fast enough when full power kicks in. second hooks up most of the time.

On turns, no way you can use it all.

I suspect the M4 will be similar.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by trinim3

That was what was soo awesome about the R8. AWD traction but also super easy to slide the rear with that 85% rear torque bias.

The R8 is the only AWD car I would consider,it's a slick weapon.But the driving dynamics of a 911 are so different to anything else out there,it's hard to pass up.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

The R8 is the only AWD car I would consider,it's a slick weapon.But the driving dynamics of a 911 are so different to anything else out there,it's hard to pass up.

Don't forget about Lamborghinis and the porsche 918. I probably wouldn't go for a 911turbo , ferrari FF or even a veyron though.

[DaFish]

Evo article comparing the M4, 911 (not S), and GTR

Again, my next car needs to be planted.


The M4 was really good fun, too. What I found incredible was the relationship between pedal movement and the reaction at the rear wheels. It’s just so reactive to throttle inputs.
‘I could carry lots of speed into corners; in fact, it was quite incredible how responsive the front end was, but what limited me then was the rear end. The front axle was carrying massive amounts of speed, but as it transferred to the rear the tyres were giving up quite early for me.
‘I also found it tricky to accelerate smoothly out of slower corners without breaking traction on the one hand, or not using all the traction available on the other. All that torque puts it on a knife-edge. The ceramic brakes were great and the upshift was very good, but the gearbox lacks a little bit of synchronisation as it re-engages.

[dgszweda]

Originally Posted by brava09

I find the RS5 crazy fast, you really need to keep at it, it really scares you with all the grip at slow speeds...you push the throttle and goes like a sling shot, whereas the M3 was spinning its wheels and going nowhere.

At high speeds it's same as the M3 though, one guy with an E92 M3 was trying to race me, on straight line he couldn't pass nor I couldn't shake him off, but at the first 90 degrees slow corner, I left him in the dust, by the time he got traction I was like 10 car lenghts ahead.

On the steering feel, if the E92 M3 is at 10 on a scale of 1-10, the RS5 is at 9. So yeah, the E92 M3 is that good, but with the RS5 you're not giving out much.

All in all I am in love with the RS5, and I see it as an improvement on my former M3. To me it looks nicer, the interior is more special and luxurious, overall looks like a more expensive car than the M3.

I have been driving around in an M4 for the last few days. I have a 2014 Audi RS5 as my daily driver. I would agree with this post. A lot of people rip on the RS5, because of what they have read in magazines. I really want to like the M4. There are many things I like about it, but I agree the power is very hard to put down in the M4. A lot of car magazines have ruined cars, because they focus on track performance, which for most every buyer is not a real consideration. Taking off in the M4 just results in tire slippage, back end wagging out in corners. The RS5 feels every bit as fast if not faster in the driving that 99.99% of all drivers are doing. 0-100 is cool, but honestly, when is anyone doing this. You punch the RS5 in dry or in ran and the car just flat out sticks and slingshots you forward. Launch control is just crazy. Launch times are dead on consistent every single time. The car just sticks all the time and in reality for almost all of us, that is quite rewarding on the street. The engine note is way better than in the M4, and I still think the S-Tronic is better. Steering feel is probably 90% of the M4, which to me is close enough especially considering the significantly better traction of the RS5. I am still debating about getting an M4, just to try something, but the RS5 is very hard to let go.

[JoeyBananas]

I agree with a lot of your post above with the exception of the S-Tronic. The M DCT is in another league IMO

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by dgszweda

I have been driving around in an M4 for the last few days. I have a 2014 Audi RS5 as my daily driver. I would agree with this post. A lot of people rip on the RS5, because of what they have read in magazines. I really want to like the M4. There are many things I like about it, but I agree the power is very hard to put down in the M4. A lot of car magazines have ruined cars, because they focus on track performance, which for most every buyer is not a real consideration. Taking off in the M4 just results in tire slippage, back end wagging out in corners. The RS5 feels every bit as fast if not faster in the driving that 99.99% of all drivers are doing. 0-100 is cool, but honestly, when is anyone doing this. You punch the RS5 in dry or in ran and the car just flat out sticks and slingshots you forward. Launch control is just crazy. Launch times are dead on consistent every single time. The car just sticks all the time and in reality for almost all of us, that is quite rewarding on the street. The engine note is way better than in the M4, and I still think the S-Tronic is better. Steering feel is probably 90% of the M4, which to me is close enough especially considering the significantly better traction of the RS5. I am still debating about getting an M4, just to try something, but the RS5 is very hard to let go.

I had a S4 but way back in 05. Loved it in the rain, but man the thing understeers. That car was no fun at all to drive at the limits. The more you push, the more the car understeers and fights back at you! It was also poorly weighted with the engine too far in front of the wheels.

Never drove an RS5 but if you look at the specs it is the same Audi formula- it is heavy 4027 lbs, with 58%/42% weight distribution!

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

If you look at most reviewers with the RS5, RS6, S6, S4, AWD in the Audi still understeers grossly. I would not consider Audi cars in any serious sports car application, until they fix those issues.

You are right the RS5 is a great and easy car to drive but at anything above 7/10's you will find it very lacking.

Now the AWD in the GT-R apparently eliminates most of the understeer.

[8600RPM]

At first I had trouble but having the right tire pressure is key. Dealer had mine at 35 all around. I dropped to 32 all around and learned to modulate throttle better and now it's no issue. It's hard at first

[Jacky Treehorn]

You guys make it sound like the M4 is an uncontrollable beast...

I wonder how those guys at the Nurburgring, Spa, and the few hillclimb videos manage to run good lap times

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Jacky Treehorn

You guys make it sound like the M4 is an uncontrollable beast...

I wonder how those guys at the Nurburgring, Spa, and the few hillclimb videos manage to run good lap times

I agree... there is absolutely a traction deficit with the OEM tires but it is still an easily manageable car. I would like more traction but have no issues controlling the beast

We've had 50 feet of snow this past week (well, that might be a slight exaggeration) and it is incredibly fun and easy to manage car with DSC off. To me, that is just an exaggerated version of dry road summer driving.

[alms21]

For those that think the M4 is difficult to put power down in first gear or out of a turn, do yourself a favor and don't ever step foot in a Z06, Viper, C63 AMG. Its called throttle modulation people.