M4 CS vs 911 GTS - MotorTrend Head 2 Head

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

BMW markets the GTS and CS as 'track day' specials. Here's the thing. The GT3 was 3 years old by the time the M4 GTS came out, yet it was still the better car in any scenario, and facet of performance and handling. Now since they did a light refresh on the 991.2 GT3, the M4 GTS is left in the dust even more than the .13RS did. The 911 GTS slaughters the M4 GTS, and 911 S (on summer tires too) still beats it. Add cup tires to the S and it more easily beats the M4 GTS. I'd bet a 991.2 base on cups would be an equivalent performer to the m4 GTS or damn close for about 30-40K less.

yawn

You'd think fanbois would end up driving the cars they desire instead of being in the wrong brand's forum

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

Track days? You mean HPDE events? Very big difference there. If you're not competing for money, fame and trophies it's not the real thing or anything close and not even remotely indicative of true racing.

You're simply referring to a better driver in a less capable car.

none of these cars are designed for racing for money or trophies, so it's a moot point isn't it?

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

According to their graphic, base price is only $11k difference? Seems reasonable that people would cross shop these 2 imo

I think MT are overestimating the US price for the CS. I believe it will be more in the $92~101k USD bracket for base price. That makes the base 911GTS ~$29k more expensive. Add the CCB to the CS, and the as tested price would be ~105k compared to the $143k as tested price for the 911GTS, a whopping $38k more expensive.

Using the same methodology I used to establish Canadian pricing in post #39:

Using the base model as a reference, the premium for the CS is between 47.5%, 48.2% and 49.3%, putting the CS in the 99k to 101k USD range with a 100.4k median.

Since the "base" models come with different standard equipment depending of the local markets, I think it is better to compare to an equivalently spec'ed M4 DCT CP (all equipped with the same options). So the CS commands between 15.8%, 20.5% and 25.0% premium over that spec'ed Competition Pack, putting the CS between 92.5k and 99.8k USD with a 96.2k median.

• In Germany: base=Eur 78,299, spec'ed CP=Eur 97,010, CS=Eur 116,900
• In Switzerland: base=CHF 94,400, spec'ed CP=CHF 120,760, CS=CHF 139,900
• In the UK: base=GBP 59,080 Lbs, spec'ed CP=GBP 69700, CS=GBP 87,150
• In the USA: base=USD 67,700, spec'ed CP=USD 79,890, CS=USD 92k ~ 101k

As a tidbit, it is interesting to observe that folks in the US are getting a bloody good deal on the CP and Exec pack

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

BMW markets the CS as 'track day' specials.

No they don't.

While the GTS is indeed marketed as a "track day special", it is not the case for the CS. Excerpts from the press release:

The M4 GTS is an uncompromising sports car also designed for use on the track.

Unlike the BMW M4 GTS, BMW has deliberately steered the M4 CS away from a focus on the track.

[CanAutM3]

In their conclusion they say the 2 cars are closer than they expected. With the M4CS being the best M4 by far and, to their surprise, feeling more "special" than the 911GTS. The 911GTS however remains the better overall sports car, hence why it wins this Head2Head.

I found the review entertaining but a bit disappointing because it is lacking the standard MT objective tests such as acceleration, figure-8 and lap times.

[4everkidd]

Originally Posted by HELLOimJ

I'm sorry u feel that way? Might be conceivable that others have differing taste than you? I actually like how my comp sounds

I tend to agree... the F8X is a terrible sounding platform from the factory or with any M-Performance bolt on they push.

The M keep's on getting better but so does everything from the P-Car camp; these car's most likely won't ever line up

[996ttelise]

Originally Posted by 4everkidd

I tend to agree... the F8X is a terrible sounding platform from the factory or with any M-Performance bolt on they push.

The M keep's on getting better but so does everything from the P-Car camp; these car's most likely won't ever line up

BMWs won't have and will likely never have the feel of a Porsche which makes 911s so special. I still prefer to drive the 997 platform over the F8Xs even with ZCP. Other than the F8X being spasticly quick, I don't find much else redeeming about it and even then it lacks traction to really enjoy. At least the M3 has 4 doors, but the 2 door M4 is not tempting to me.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

yawn

You'd think fanbois would end up driving the cars they desire instead of being in the wrong brand's forum

I own a 991S and just sold my M4 (my daily). I also owned the previous generation M3s and really enjoyed the cars a lot.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

No they don't.

While the GTS is indeed marketed as a "track day special", it is not the case for the CS. Excerpts from the press release:

Well, it certainly didn’t put up an impressive time for Sport Auto at 7:42. Very slow for a car with that power and cup tires.
The 911 GTS to me is a special car in the fact that it is so supremely capable and isn’t a “special edition” yet puts up supercar numbers from non supercar paper specs.

[mtr3s]

For those of you that haven't driven a Porsche, drive a base model Cayman, and right away you will notice those cars are the truth. It's not about the speed, but handling and enjoyment of driving a very well engineered car.

I got bored of my F80 M3 surprisingly quick and do not miss the speed at all.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by mtr3s

For those of you that haven't driven a Porsche, drive a base model Cayman, and right away you will notice those cars are the truth. It's not about the speed, but handling and enjoyment of driving a very well engineered car.

I agree. Porsches are the benchmark of Sports cars and are delightful to drive.

I would not trade my M4 for a base Cayman though

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by mtr3s

For those of you that haven't driven a Porsche, drive a base model Cayman, and right away you will notice those cars are the truth. It's not about the speed, but handling and enjoyment of driving a very well engineered car.

I got bored of my F80 M3 surprisingly quick and do not miss the speed at all.

My first drive in a Porsche was when I had a 335i. I test drove a base Boxster with MT and was sold. Ended up with a Cayman S with PDK, kept that for 5 years and traded for a CPO 911.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by mtr3s

For those of you that haven't driven a Porsche, drive a base model Cayman, and right away you will notice those cars are the truth. It's not about the speed, but handling and enjoyment of driving a very well engineered car.

I got bored of my F80 M3 surprisingly quick and do not miss the speed at all.

Well different strokes for different folks. I drove a base cayman and I was like, wtf where is the power?

f80 is "boring" on public roads commuting because it's meant to get out of our way and fade into the background. You are DSC off and big throttle application away from all the exciting you want.

I like Porsche but am selective about which ones I'd replace an f80 for, and it's certainly not base cayman/boxster

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by mtr3s

For those of you that haven't driven a Porsche, drive a base model Cayman, and right away you will notice those cars are the truth. It's not about the speed, but handling and enjoyment of driving a very well engineered car.

I got bored of my F80 M3 surprisingly quick and do not miss the speed at all.

For driving in a mountain road, perhaps you're right.

For tracking a car I'll definitely go with the BMW

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I own a 991S and just sold my M4 (my daily). I also owned the previous generation M3s and really enjoyed the cars a lot.

Excellent! Glad to hear that! Well I'm glad to see you're still hanging around to enlighten us heathens!

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

For driving in a mountain road, perhaps you're right.

For tracking a car I'll definitely go with the BMW

Umm, no, a Porsche will be better on the track

[sunnyboy]

Let's get back on thread. Anyone has a link to the actual video, besides the "On Demand"? Want to watch it without registering to "On Demand"...

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

Umm, no, a Porsche will be better on the track

This is what many people think until an M car blows their doors off.

[No Boost]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I agree. Porsches are the benchmark of Sports cars and are delightful to drive.

I would not trade my M4 for a base Cayman though

Nice save with the edited post.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Stage IV

Nice save with the edited post.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

This is what many people think until an M car blows their doors off.

Again, conflating driver abilities with car abilities. The dichotomy of those two things could not be greater and as such should be bifurcated accordingly. Fact is, BMW is not even in the same stratosphere as Porsche on a track with equal driver’s especially if you’re talking stock for stock where the M will struggle to consistently put down the same lap times and the Porsche will be consistent. Similar to how the new 2RS was consistently in the 6:4x-6:5x and blew the doors and wing off the ACR on just a practice run before setting a new Ring record with ease. On top of that, they are not as good of driver’s car as Porsche by any stretch.

[Ben Overlake]

At six figures, the M4 loses steam quickly. We're talking Cayman GT4 money. 991.1 GTS money. Both superior vehicles with the right badge and stronger resale. Much stronger in the case of the GT4. But I'd take a fully loaded '18 ZCP M4 over the GT4 all day. I just love the way it looks. I don't love the way the Cayman looks. At all.