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      04-19-2017, 01:54 PM   #1
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Question Effect of more camber in front vs back

Hi All,

I just started to track my M4 ZCP and have little idea about which way to tweak my camber set up. I'm running staggered F 265/35-19 R 285/35-19. Toe F 0 R 0.4in

I gathered from various threads that typically we set up with more camber in front and about 0.5 to 1.0 less at the back, say F -2.5 R -1.5

However my local shop suggested I should start with more camber at the back instead. F-2.0 R-2.5

What is the effect of having more camber in front vs back? If I want more oversteer should I have camber F > R?

Some said the front of F8X actually tend to gain positive camber under compression, that's why the front needs a lot more negative camber than the rear. The rear, being a multilink design, gains negative camber rather easily, and should have less than the front.

Thanks for your help!
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      04-19-2017, 03:16 PM   #2
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First recommendation: change shops.

You should not use camber to tune handling balance. There are many more adjustments that are far more appropriate for that. Camber adjustment should be used to maximize the tire's contact patch, particularly when cornering when at the track. Optimizing the tire's contact patch will maximize the grip it can provide and maximize its life. The best way to evaluate if the contact patch is optimized, is by measuring the tire's tread temperature: you want a uniform temperature across the tread when coming in hot into the pits.

I am presently running -2.5 front and -1.6 rear and getting pretty decent temperature distribution. I still need to work the front a little and may dial in a bit more camber after having played with pressures. Rear is just perfect.
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      04-19-2017, 10:53 PM   #3
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If your shop achieved -2.5 camber in the rear on your stock M4 I'd be extremely surprised.
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      04-20-2017, 04:04 AM   #4
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Bear in mind that too much rear camber may actually impair traction.

As stated above, just buy a pyrometer (IR thermometer), there are some really cheap ones out there, and measure temps as stated in previous posts. Then try to play with pressures in order to try to equalize temp across the tread. Only then would I consider adjusting camber. FWIW for me the stock camber/toe settings seem to work almost perfectly (only the front left could use more camber, which is to be expected on a clockwise track), however I am running square 285 tires.
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      04-20-2017, 12:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
First recommendation: change shops.

You should not use camber to tune handling balance. There are many more adjustments that are far more appropriate for that. Camber adjustment should be used to maximize the tire's contact patch, particularly when cornering when at the track. Optimizing the tire's contact patch will maximize the grip it can provide and maximize its life. The best way to evaluate if the contact patch is optimized, is by measuring the tire's tread temperature: you want a uniform temperature across the tread when coming in hot into the pits.

I am presently running -2.5 front and -1.6 rear and getting pretty decent temperature distribution. I still need to work the front a little and may dial in a bit more camber after having played with pressures. Rear is just perfect.
Thanks and understand now. I'll work on thread temperature
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      04-20-2017, 12:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
If your shop achieved -2.5 camber in the rear on your stock M4 I'd be extremely surprised.
Oh forgot to say I've got a set of SPL camber link and toe link installed
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      04-28-2017, 03:22 AM   #7
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Get 3 readings on your tire. Inner middle, outer. You're looking for even temps for all 3 readings. If centre reading is higher than inner and outer, decrease air pressure in 1 PSI increments or more as deemed fit.

If outer temp is higher, you need more negative camber and vice versa.

You will need a pyrometer. I prefer tire probe as compared to IR because it gets the core temp. No harm using IR if you like.
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      05-01-2017, 08:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
First recommendation: change shops.

You should not use camber to tune handling balance. There are many more adjustments that are far more appropriate for that. Camber adjustment should be used to maximize the tire's contact patch, particularly when cornering when at the track. Optimizing the tire's contact patch will maximize the grip it can provide and maximize its life. The best way to evaluate if the contact patch is optimized, is by measuring the tire's tread temperature: you want a uniform temperature across the tread when coming in hot into the pits.

I am presently running -2.5 front and -1.6 rear and getting pretty decent temperature distribution. I still need to work the front a little and may dial in a bit more camber after having played with pressures. Rear is just perfect.
This. Camber should be more in the front too. I am currently running 3.5 degress of camber upfront and OEM alignment spec in the rear. Car feels great, a little over steer but my front tires have even wear after track events
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      05-04-2017, 01:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Pilot View Post
Get 3 readings on your tire. Inner middle, outer. You're looking for even temps for all 3 readings. If centre reading is higher than inner and outer, decrease air pressure in 1 PSI increments or more as deemed fit.

If outer temp is higher, you need more negative camber and vice versa.

You will need a pyrometer. I prefer tire probe as compared to IR because it gets the core temp. No harm using IR if you like.
Thank you very much!
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      05-04-2017, 02:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
First recommendation: change shops.

You should not use camber to tune handling balance. There are many more adjustments that are far more appropriate for that. Camber adjustment should be used to maximize the tire's contact patch, particularly when cornering when at the track. Optimizing the tire's contact patch will maximize the grip it can provide and maximize its life. The best way to evaluate if the contact patch is optimized, is by measuring the tire's tread temperature: you want a uniform temperature across the tread when coming in hot into the pits.

I am presently running -2.5 front and -1.6 rear and getting pretty decent temperature distribution. I still need to work the front a little and may dial in a bit more camber after having played with pressures. Rear is just perfect.
spot on

That shop... even the village idiots know M3s since the stone age have used more camber up front than in the rear, usually quite a bit more.

OP, you did the right thing by coming here to ask!
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