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08-24-2013, 08:23 PM | #199 |
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This is a failed argument ad absurdum. Although google appears to have made good progress on a fully automatic drive car, it absolutely hasn't made one that can even keep up a novice pace on the twisty back canyon roads or at the track. Of course we can easily imagine a thought experiment where they did have one. No, everything fully automated would surely not be fun. That does not imply in any way that DCTs aren't quite a bit of fun. Of course, cars that can do either, drive conservative or quickly on a track would be a useful feature for some people some of the time.
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08-24-2013, 09:36 PM | #200 |
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Thanks for the dose of sanity Scott ~
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08-25-2013, 04:50 PM | #201 | |
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Sometime around 2006 or 2007, Top Gear featured a BMW 330i that was programmed to go driverless around a track and did so with Clarkson sitting in the drivers seat but not touching the wheel...looked pretty fast from what I recall (and Clarkson was scared s&itless!). Couldn't find the video due to BBC copyright but was actually used as a BMW track trainer.
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08-25-2013, 05:19 PM | #202 | |
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08-25-2013, 07:06 PM | #203 | ||
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It's like in IT, a PC refers to Wintel based computers and so we have PC vs. Mac debates even though a Mac is a "Personal Computer" too, regardless of the technology behind it, as you put it. |
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08-26-2013, 02:39 AM | #204 | |
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08-26-2013, 09:08 AM | #205 | |
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Yeah I recall was more "reciting" vs driving (was programmed to follow line of the Stig or another race driver IIRC)...will try to find the episode, was both interesting and funny!
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08-26-2013, 12:35 PM | #206 | |
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Do let us know if you can find the video or more information.
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08-26-2013, 03:05 PM | #207 | |
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=536519
http://www.snotr.com/video/729/BMW_330i_driving_itself Quote:
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08-27-2013, 02:20 PM | #208 |
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A short excerpt from a write up I did on the f10 M5 manual...
Perhaps the manual supercar is gone, which has led many driving purists into the realm of lower powered cars such as the Porsche Cayman and Subaru BRZ. Trying to argue logically is pointless, DCT drive trains are better is every respect of performance. But with technologies aside, weather its a 200hp 4 cyl or a 560hp twin turbo v8, slamming the clutch pedal, ripping the gears and feeling the raw power of these wonderful engines is and always will be the peak of the driving experience. |
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08-27-2013, 06:11 PM | #209 | |
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08-27-2013, 06:13 PM | #210 |
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For some, of course. It's all opinion even on what is "the peak".
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08-27-2013, 06:43 PM | #211 |
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Hmmm . . .
Having read thru 10 pp of this thread, I find it interesting nobody has mentioned a key reason why, for me, MT is better than DCT:
With DCT, the opportunity for company attorneys to insert themselves into the driving equation and help dictate how a car behaves rears its ugly head. I truly think that's why many paddle-shift cars have a "doggy" throttle tip-in from a dead stop in first gear -- companies are afraid somebody is going to accidentally run over their grandma in her driveway because the car "lunged" forward -- despite the fact that their right foot told the car to do so. Because of this, manufacturers have to play it safe on how the software is written in terms of feeding in the clutch from a dead stop. Ever notice how many modern cars hold revs unnaturally after you stomp on then chop the throttle in neutral or with the clutch disengaged? Drive-by-wire throttle software is intervening to help minimize emissions from the exhaust. "Clutch by wire" also requires software which can be tuned for certain behavior. One of the critical bits of joy for me in driving an expensive car is that I feel like it's listening very carefully to what I'm asking it to do, then just doing it. When the tip-in from a dead stop gets laggy or mushy, it ruins the experience for me. Introduces frustration and anger. With my 6MT, I have infinitely variable control (up to the limits of traction at least) over how much lunge the car has from a stop. That alone will keep me from switching for some time. |
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08-27-2013, 07:20 PM | #212 |
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Yes, definitely more recital however in one of the videos states, 1) there is a video camera used in conjunction w/ military grade gps accurate within 5 cm used as inputs for data; 2) unlike n-ring hockenheim looks live very aggressive Robo driving (also autoweek article, engineers also said car could be programmed to match the mid-150s time if they 'pushed it' on the prog front which matches the racing driver's time). Pretty impressive considering when this was all done.
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08-28-2013, 12:26 AM | #213 | |
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