Vtt crank hub slipped, turbos failed

[bracer]

OK, so short post now, I have a long write up as well, but not sure I will post that.

I had VTT V1 crank hub and CBC installed about 3000 miles ago. Unfortunately at Willow Springs this last weekend the car went into limp mode at the end of the first session with a drivetrain malfunction that showed both the intake and exhaust camshafts were out of position. EAS has torn the down to the crankhub and removed it to confirm the crankhub did indeed spin. Unfortunately they have also found a lot of metal in the oil filter, ,so it appears the engine has had further damage that still needs investigation.

Also just for full disclosure the GC2 turbos I had on the car failed the month before on their 1st session at Autoclub Speedway. The rear turbo had a sticky wastegate, the front turbo was leaking oil. VTT did replace these with fully rebuilt units, but after both failing I decided to install ASR Kratos instead.

So far without the engine rebuild I'm into the car for 7K related to failures of VTT products, including labor, towing fees, and rental cars. This is before we even get into diagnosing what happened to the motor.

More to come as we tear into this further.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by blackey

OK, so short post now, I have a long write up as well, but not sure I will post that.

I had VTT V1 crank hub and CBC installed about 3000 miles ago. Unfortunately at Willow Springs this last weekend the car went into limp mode at the end of the first session with a drivetrain malfunction that showed both the intake and exhaust camshafts were out of position. EAS has torn the down to the crankhub and removed it to confirm the crankhub did indeed spin. Unfortunately they have also found a lot of metal in the oil filter, ,so it appears the engine has had further damage that still needs investigation.

Also just for full disclosure the GC2 turbos I had on the car failed the month before on their 1st session at Autoclub Speedway. The rear turbo had a sticky wastegate, the front turbo was leaking oil. VTT did replace these with fully rebuilt units, but after both failing I decided to install ASR Kratos instead.

So far without the engine rebuild I'm into the car for 7K related to failures of VTT products, including labor, towing fees, and rental cars. This is before we even get into diagnosing what happened to the motor.

More to come as we tear into this further.

Let me be the first to say, sorry to hear about all your car troubles! It definitely sounds like a load of hassle and inconvenience for anyone to go through anything like this.

Looking forward to reading the rest of the details. My advice is to maintain a positive mindset as much as possible, you'll get everything sorted eventually.

[bracer]

I hear you. So far VTT has been helpful in diagnosing the issue although I wish they had given some indication V1 had some possible issues. I can afford it, but the downtime sucks.

So Chris has indicated that if the hub has spun and the friction disc is damaged (mine was) that there will be metal in the filter. Anyone else who has spun a disc confirm you had similar indications?

My big issue right now is what to do next. Do I pull the motor for a full rebuild even though it is running fine, (except for the metal in the filter of course), or do I take a chance and clean everything up and just have EAS put it back together.

[4everkidd]

Originally Posted by blackey

I hear you. So far VTT has been helpful in diagnosing the issue although I wish they had given some indication V1 had some possible issues. I can afford it, but the downtime sucks.

So Chris has indicated that if the hub has spun and the friction disc is damaged (mine was) that there will be metal in the filter. Anyone else who has spun a disc confirm you had similar indications?

My big issue right now is what to do next. Do I pull the motor for a full rebuild even though it is running fine, (except for the metal in the filter of course), or do I take a chance and clean everything up and just have EAS put it back together.

How long do you intend on keeping the car? long term as a track monster then pull and rebuild. If the intent is to flip it next year for something newer and better then go minimal on the build. Why build it for the next guy?

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Let me be the first to say, sorry to hear about all your car troubles! It definitely sounds like a load of hassle and inconvenience for anyone to go through anything like this.

Looking forward to reading the rest of the details. My advice is to maintain a positive mindset as much as possible, you'll get everything sorted eventually.

Damn... +1 what NARS said, and please have my prayers everything will work-out

[Mintsopoulos]

Terribly unfortunate hope all goes well bud.

Like mentioned, if you plan on keeping it and putting some good track miles on it...build it into a track weapon. If you plan on dumping it...not worth the effort/money

[ntg44]

Sorry to hear OP.

Judging from the past couple weeks, I wonder how long before this thread gets deleted too.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Sorry to hear OP.

Judging from the past couple weeks, I wonder how long before this thread gets deleted too.

This is a legitimate case, and it's in the appropriate forum for the affected engine platform, so highly unlikely for this thread to go anywhere.

There was a previously reported issue with the spline design on the V1 CH kit, where no marks were imprinted on the N55/S55 crank snout. VTT corrected this with V2, which supposedly bites so hard, you'll need their CH removal tool to remove the CH assembly. Time will tell the success rate with the V2, but my gut tells me it will hold just fine.

The S55 GC turbo is a whole different issue, and I'm waiting to hear whether the leaky turbo oil seal caused the wastegate to fail, or if the wastegate was on the verge of failing, thereby causing the turbo units to reach a defective state. The bright side of all this is that VTT is engaged, and it seems they are actively working with OP.

Highly doubt money is the issue here, but more so with OPs time and energy. To OP, my recommendation would be to move forward with pulling the engine. It'll be much easier for you to determine the best course of action once you get a better understanding of where things stand overall.

[bracer]

Leaky turbo was front, wastegate was rear btw, so don't think they caused each other. I also think the V2 will probably hold, and VTT has offered to replace the V1 with the V2 and honor the warranty, but obviously the time, money, effort is in the labor and down time, not the part.

I couldn't make it to EAS today, so we'll be going over options tomorrow. Anyone else who has had the hub slip also wee metal in the filter?

[ntg44]

I get your point nars, thanks for the explanation. It was just an observation, nothing more

Regardless, it sucks. Nobody wants faulty parts in their car, especially when they’re sold as fixes. And there’s zero legal accountability, which doesn’t help the customer’s wallet. It’s why I’m so skeptical of these kits. Cut through the marketing BS, and what you’re left with is neither the vendor nor the installer with any financial obligation, and the customer is the only one who loses. Even the guarantee with the newer ones is so half baked. Nobody gives a sh*t about replacing the crank hub if it’s faulty. They care about their engine in the worst case scenario, which isn’t covered at all. Don’t need a new wagon if the horse is dead.

I get it though, pay to play. Doesn’t make it right in situations like this. Nice to hear VTT is helping to whatever extent they are.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by blackey

I couldn't make it to EAS today, so we'll be going over options tomorrow. Anyone else who has had the hub slip also wee metal in the filter?

Not SCH related, but on my other S55, there was a small amount of metal shavings in the oil filter housing when one of the rods decided to end itself.

Leaving this link here just in case: https://www.ghassanautomotive.com/pr...bmw-s55-engine

[bracer]

Thanks for the link, if I have to go that way, which I would say is 50/50 at this point I will start a thread looking for a good engine builder. Only other one I know of is Carbahn.

[M-Pilot]

Sorry to hear this OP. Hope you get everything sorted out with as little trouble as possible.

If you don't mind, how much power/torque were you pushing to the wheels?

[bracer]

On the 91 tune somewhere around 550rwhp

[Chris@VargasTurboTech]

Hey guys,

It's true, Bill had some issues with his GC's at the track and is also the first person with a V1 spline lock and CBC that I'm aware of to report slipped crank hub -bummer on both counts.

Bill reached out to me a few days back when the slipped hub occurred, and caught me up to speed with the previous S55 GC issue he had. It's my understanding that Bill had a wastegate malfunction while on the track with his 100 octane track tune, which persisted after the fact (i.e. something went wonky) and upon inspection also saw some leakage from the front turbo (unrelated to wastegate issue). Of course we had him send the turbos to us, we inspected, gave him new housings, did a fresh rebuild and sent them back. In the meantime, Bill had decided to go a different turbo vendor direction -which saddens us, but being realists, of course we know Bill is entirely entitled to put whatever he chooses on his car.

The V1 spline lock failure is unrelated to the turbo issues experienced earlier, and is unfortunate. V2 is far more aggressive and to date zero reported failures of the V2, and as some of you probably read, the V2 is so much more aggressive that we have our no-slip guarantee where if it's installed at an authorized dealer (EAS is where Bill goes, and they're authorized) we'll back it up with a parts and labor replacement guarantee for the spline lock.

We do understand Bill's frustration and we are engaged. Bill has been communicative, and did tell us that he wanted a total refund, else he would go to the forums with his experience -which, again, is well within his rights to share his experiences. We feel that with the turbos we've stood behind our product with prompt engagement and problem resolution, and that it's a bummer that Bill wanted to go with another vendor, but that part is outside of our control.

As to the V1 spline lock failure, when we introduced the V2 we did extend an offer for those who had new V1's to exchange for V2's. I understand Bill missed this (he installed V1) by about a week or two, and didn't want to pay labor to swap out for the V2.

As a show of goodwill, we're willing to send Bill a new V2, and while we think he should have stuck with our turbos, we will as a one-time offer extend the opportunity for Bill to send those back to us for inspection (make sure they're still fresh rebuilt/not installed/not damaged) and extend a new-turbo warranty to whoever purchases Bill's S55 GC's second hand.

While all of this is non-optimal and we hate to see any issues, we also think it's an opportunity to show some people what happens with us when things go wrong. We do our best to work with you -no secret deals to keep things quiet, real world taking responsibility and working with fellow enthusiasts. Bill, we'll get the V2 spline lock out to EAS right away, assuming that you're still interested in that.

Best,
Chris

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by blackey

Thanks for the link, if I have to go that way, which I would say is 50/50 at this point I will start a thread looking for a good engine builder. Only other one I know of is Carbahn.

Ghassan recently helped build an S63 engine for a stranded F90 M5 owner. Total cost was $17k versus $59k from the dealer. They also encountered an issue with the V1 CH kit on their N54 135i. Albeit, they went against VTT's recommendation of having the CBC installed, as well as, removing an aftermarket harmonic balancer that's been known to cause heavy vibrations. Both VTT and Ghassan have a little history, but if all you need is a built S55 long block, then there shouldn't be any conflict.

If your engine block is 100% in tact, then just about any decent BMW tuning shop, including EAS, should be able to do a bottom end rebuild for you. Otherwise, you're fortunate to live close enough to Lang Racing, as an alternative option:

https://store.langracing.com/bmw-s55/
https://www.langracing.com/services/...built-engines/

AFAIK, Lang Racing is the only shop offering sleeving service for the LDS coated S55 cylinder walls, which pretty much qualifies them as a specialist.

[bracer]

Yea I know Lang well, our day jobs cross paths to some extent as well. They are the ones who actually installed the VTT crank lock for me.

Any while I do wish VTT would just take back the turbos as a show of god faith for the pain and suffer they have caused (Who wants to sell a set of turbos used you do not believe in) I understand their position and respect they are at least offering the inspection and V2 spline lock.

[blockdoc]

Annndd...
This really sucks for those of us with the V1 spline lock. With upgraded turbos, methanol, and an E50 tune, I had this installed for peace of mind.

POOF
That's peace if mind is now gone. I am pretty handy, but certainly not up to replacing the V1 spine lock version. Now I'm looking at another 2 grand and down time.

Crap.

[ASRman]

Does the VTT 'no slip guarantee' cover any engine damage caused by their faulty product? Obviously if your hub slips running a VTT that last thing I would want would be to replace the hub with another VTT which is prone to slip.

Again, don't see how offering the OP a V2 hub as a 'gesture of goodwill' is any consolation here. Surely that's a given, and not goodwill seeing they don't advertise V1 as a hub prone to slip. Maybe they should start building these disclaimers into their marketing campaigns.

If I was OP, I would not stop short of requesting VTT cover ALL damage caused as as result of their product failing.

[MR RIZK]

If you have the VTT v1 and it slips a little, in theory this has enlarged the crank snout somewhat or at least damaged the mating area.

Wouldn't the effectiveness of a v2 be reduced by virtue? Would be better going with a pinned solution instead second time round imo.

Not saying the v2 doesn't work, just saying I wouldn't put a v2 after fitment of a v1.

[JamesGames]

Sorry to hear OP, hope things work out for you. Having owned the chassis for 4+ years and seeing various different "fixes" that still spun is extremely discouraging for this platform.

[avex8]

You should go with solid company from the start, it will save you the headache later on. Saving few thousand and testing new products on your car is not worth it! I am running e85 / pure turbo / gintani crank and pushing 750whp 680tq with 0 issue