M3 / M4 V6 Speculation

[LDSM]

after seeing the concept under car shots V6 rumors should be over.

I was actually hoping for a v6, something completely different and unique to the M3/M4 rather than a modified version of whats in the 335/435

[HeavyMetalRocker]

My problem with the new M is it's just a lighter better handling 335i... Don't get me wrong that's a huge compliment to the 335i. But let's take a look at my theory. The N54 based 335i's are being tuned upwards of 730 whp and the "new" easy whp mark of 430'ish is easily attainable with a tune and some bolt ons. Stock low 13's 106mph with 4.7-4.9 0-60 depending on source. Then they stop the N54 and sandbag it with the N55 which has lower performance and tuning capabilities. Then the 1M makes its debut with what engine? The N54! (some 335i's at this point still use the N54 but it's few) I feel like BMW was testing the water with the 1M and liked the temp. All sources I've read put the M3/4 power plant based strongly off of the twin turbo variant N54 which is the stronger off the two engines. Mate the previous N54 I mentioned with a factory tune similar to the tuners what do you get? Slightly more horsepower than the S65 and a boatload more torque, an LSD (that the 335i should have stock), and a curb weight around 3300'ish pounds... It's a glorified 335i... I'd like to see them compete with Porsche on the n/a I6 scale... Or build a higher power V8 because we all know the S65 is an eargasm machine! I guess we'll have to accept BMW's turbo phase though!

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalRocker

My problem with the new M is it's just a lighter better handling 335i... Don't get me wrong that's a huge compliment to the 335i. But let's take a look at my theory. The N54 based 335i's are being tuned upwards of 730 whp and the "new" easy whp mark of 430'ish is easily attainable with a tune and some bolt ons. Stock low 13's 106mph with 4.7-4.9 0-60 depending on source. Then they stop the N54 and sandbag it with the N55 which has lower performance and tuning capabilities. Then the 1M makes its debut with what engine? The N54! (some 335i's at this point still use the N54 but it's few) I feel like BMW was testing the water with the 1M and liked the temp. All sources I've read put the M3/4 power plant based strongly off of the twin turbo variant N54 which is the stronger off the two engines. Mate the previous N54 I mentioned with a factory tune similar to the tuners what do you get? Slightly more horsepower than the S65 and a boatload more torque, an LSD (that the 335i should have stock), and a curb weight around 3300'ish pounds... It's a glorified 335i... I'd like to see them compete with Porsche on the n/a I6 scale... Or build a higher power V8 because we all know the S65 is an eargasm machine! I guess we'll have to accept BMW's turbo phase though!

The difference between a M3 and a 335i is SO much more than the difference in power... This debate has been discussed many times, and yes, you can drag race a tuned 335i just as quick as a similar powered M3 (apart from DCT shift times being faster). But if you just look at horsepower, you are missing out on the most important parts of a true M3. You can tune a 335i as much as you want, it still doesn't have the DCT, lightweight components, better suspension parts (not talking about springs and dampers), etc. etc...

Based on your theory, every M3 up to the E9x is just a glorified 33xi! E30, E36 and E46 "just" had a higher tuned NA engine based on a production block.

And, we don't all "know" that the S65 is a eargasm machine! To me it sounds similar to a muscle car V8. Having been at the 'Ring and listened to the cars driving by, a S65 M3 never sounds like it revs high, it has a burbly V8 sound, and doesn't stand out from the crowd! Listen to a E46 M3 CSL and you have a "eargasm machine" IMHO

But, how the turbo S55 will sound in real life compared to the S65 and E46 M3 is going to be interesting!

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalRocker

My problem with the new M is it's just a lighter better handling 335i... Don't get me wrong that's a huge compliment to the 335i. But let's take a look at my theory. The N54 based 335i's are being tuned upwards of 730 whp and the "new" easy whp mark of 430'ish is easily attainable with a tune and some bolt ons. Stock low 13's 106mph with 4.7-4.9 0-60 depending on source. Then they stop the N54 and sandbag it with the N55 which has lower performance and tuning capabilities. Then the 1M makes its debut with what engine? The N54! (some 335i's at this point still use the N54 but it's few) I feel like BMW was testing the water with the 1M and liked the temp. All sources I've read put the M3/4 power plant based strongly off of the twin turbo variant N54 which is the stronger off the two engines. Mate the previous N54 I mentioned with a factory tune similar to the tuners what do you get? Slightly more horsepower than the S65 and a boatload more torque, an LSD (that the 335i should have stock), and a curb weight around 3300'ish pounds... It's a glorified 335i... I'd like to see them compete with Porsche on the n/a I6 scale... Or build a higher power V8 because we all know the S65 is an eargasm machine! I guess we'll have to accept BMW's turbo phase though!

Have you driven an M3? If you have, and your impression is still that "it's just a lighter better handling 335i", then you should just stick with the 335i.

[SCOTT26]

Horse.....Beat......Dead!!!!!!!!

[phrozen06]

Whatever the engine is, it will be faster than the E92 M.

[hwelvaar]

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalRocker

All sources I've read put the M3/4 power plant based strongly off of the twin turbo variant N54 which is the stronger off the two engines.

Which sources ? All I read is modified/upgraded N55 with extra turbo(s) added + strengthening.

[NHman]

In the current issue of EVO magazine, there's a review of the 435i. In the review, there are numerous references to the upcoming M3/M4. As stated by EVO "The new M3 and M4 will be launched at the same time, with twin-turbocharged straight-six engines more powerful than the E92 M3's NA V8. But it's clear that the M4 will take center stageand assume the mantle of 'core' M-car and icon-in-waiting, leaving the M3 as the marginally less dynamic default choice for those who can't do without four doors."

Further

"Hardcore 'car guy' and Nordschleife frequent flyer Frohlich can hardly contain his enthusiasm for the forthcoming M division coupe. The M4 will be the essence of M, the core model, taking over from the M3,' he says. Compared to the E92 it's lighter, stiffer, faster. It will be sensational. I drove the prototype car in comparision with the M3 Competition Package on the Nurburgring two months ago and it's a big leap forward. The power is up slightly but the weight is down quite a bit."

Draw from it what you will. There is more content but focused on the 435i. This can be found in issue # 187.

[RMB]

Originally Posted by NHman

In the current issue of EVO magazine, there's a review of the 435i. In the review, there are numerous references to the upcoming M3/M4. As stated by EVO "The new M3 and M4 will be launched at the same time, with twin-turbocharged straight-six engines more powerful than the E92 M3's NA V8. But it's clear that the M4 will take center stageand assume the mantle of 'core' M-car and icon-in-waiting, leaving the M3 as the marginally less dynamic default choice for those who can't do without four doors."

Further

"Hardcore 'car guy' and Nordschleife frequent flyer Frohlich can hardly contain his enthusiasm for the forthcoming M division coupe. The M4 will be the essence of M, the core model, taking over from the M3,' he says. Compared to the E92 it's lighter, stiffer, faster. It will be sensational. I drove the prototype car in comparision with the M3 Competition Package on the Nurburgring two months ago and it's a big leap forward. The power is up slightly but the weight is down quite a bit."

Draw from it what you will. There is more content but focused on the 435i. This can be found in issue # 187.

Well that sounds pretty reassuring. I like what he said about the M4 being more hardcore.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by RMB

Well that sounds pretty reassuring. I like what he said about the M4 being more hardcore.

I hate what he said about the M4 being more hardcore. The E90 M3 is the only sports car with 4 doors and gives up nothing to the E92. It would suck if they stray from that with the F8Xs and softens or fattens the M3 vs the M4.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Horse.....Beat......Dead!!!!!!!!

Scott... I think the horse is not only dead but fully decomposed.

[sparkyg]

Close thread?

[NHman]

Originally Posted by solstice

I hate what he said about the M4 being more hardcore. The E90 M3 is the only sports car with 4 doors and gives up nothing to the E92. It would suck if they stray from that with the F8Xs and softens or fattens the M3 vs the M4.

I don't know for certain if there will be a performance separation between the M3 and M4. However, I thought there was some reference to the existing M5 vs. M6 where the latter had an edge in performance. If so, there would be basis for it to carry forward (M3 vs. M4).

[mkoesel]

Speculation has once again died down so we can end the discussion. Some specs are coming next month, engine configuration and other details among them.