Recommended suspension upgrades for track

[4Y_stack_acceleration]

Hi, long-time lurker here. I have a non-ZCP F82 with stock suspension (EDC) and 6 DEs under my belt. At the minimum, I want camber plates with more negative front camber to extend tire wear on the track. This car is exclusively a weekend car so ride comfort can take a back seat.

Possible upgrade routes:

1. M-Performance HAS (works with EDC) + Vorschlag camber plates
2. KW V3 + Vorschlag camber plates
3. KW Clubsport 3-way (camber plates included)

Additional modifcations:

• Monoball thrust arms
• Stiffer sway bars

I've heard the MP HAS kit is something people tend to quickly outgrow on the track. Have also read repeatedly on these forums that the KW V3 is more so set up for the street than track. So should I cry once, buy once and go straight to the clubsports?

If I do upgrade to clubsports, should I also do the sway bars or is that starting to hit some diminishing ROI on cornering grip?

Do the monoball thrust arms really give noticeable improvement in steering feel?

Thanks in advance.

[hellokitty]

What is your budget?

One thing to keep in mind is that KW Clubsports have a 90 day warranty (if I recall correctly last time I looked). The KW V1-V4 dampers have a lifetime warranty. The clubsports also require more frequent rebuilding, so that's cost and downtime added to your track budget. As a result, I would look into the new KW V4 dampers as those look pretty sweet.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...M3-F82-M4.html

I'd also consider putting together bits and pieces (or do everything) from the SPL Parts catalog. This will allow you to dial in your alignment however you like, but will add noise and harshness. Yes, it will add steering feel.

I'd also do differential bushings and sway bars at the same time since the rear subframe needs to be lowered for both, saving labor.

Consider adding transmission mounts from Rogue Engineering.

Also consider the final bits and pieces like the rear camber arm bushings etc. from Fall Line. You can find these at iND.

[Theruleslawyer]

Don't bother with MP-HAS. Waste of time. How racecar do you really want to be? V3 are more street oriented. I'd see if anyone has a set locally that can give you a ride. Its easy to go too far on a dual use car.

FWIW if you have clubsport money there are a lot of options. MCS is really popular.

Monoballs are worthwhile, especially under braking. The rear sway bar requires dropping the subframe so a lot of people wait on them. Non ZCP I doubt you'd want to change just the front.

Other stuff
I also got a rear camber shim kit to prevent camber drift under side load. rear toe arms with lockout are popular. You can really go down the rabbit hole with kinematics though. Before you spend a ton of money there, what else have you done?

FWIW you'll get better responses in the track section. There are a lot more 'stance' people in the normal technical section.

[4Y_stack_acceleration]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

Don't bother with MP-HAS. Waste of time. How racecar do you really want to be? V3 are more street oriented. I'd see if anyone has a set locally that can give you a ride. Its easy to go too far on a dual use car.

FWIW if you have clubsport money there are a lot of options. MCS is really popular.

Monoballs are worthwhile, especially under braking. The rear sway bar requires dropping the subframe so a lot of people wait on them. Non ZCP I doubt you'd want to change just the front.

Other stuff
I also got a rear camber shim kit to prevent camber drift under side load. rear toe arms with lockout are popular. You can really go down the rabbit hole with kinematics though. Before you spend a ton of money there, what else have you done?

FWIW you'll get better responses in the track section. There are a lot more 'stance' people in the normal technical section.

Appreciate the detailed thoughts. Only work done on my car so far is BM3 tune (but I de-tune to stock power on track anyways) and the consumables (tires, pads, fluid). Suspension is totally stock. Will also get a 275 square set of wheels after my current set of tires wear out.

I bought this car with the main intention of tracking it so I think going clubsports makes sense. I ride on sport+ EDC setting 90% of the time anyways, and I've read elsewhere the street comfort on clubsports isn't terrible.

So sounds like clubsports + monoballs + alignment, then wait on sway bars and other work and that should be a good base for some time.

Originally Posted by hellokitty

What is your budget?

One thing to keep in mind is that KW Clubsports have a 90 day warranty (if I recall correctly last time I looked). The KW V1-V4 dampers have a lifetime warranty. The clubsports also require more frequent rebuilding, so that's cost and downtime added to your track budget. As a result, I would look into the new KW V4 dampers as those look pretty sweet.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Suspensi...M3-F82-M4.html

I'd also consider putting together bits and pieces (or do everything) from the SPL Parts catalog. This will allow you to dial in your alignment however you like, but will add noise and harshness. Yes, it will add steering feel.

I'd also do differential bushings and sway bars at the same time since the rear subframe needs to be lowered for both, saving labor.

Consider adding transmission mounts from Rogue Engineering.

Also consider the final bits and pieces like the rear camber arm bushings etc. from Fall Line. You can find these at iND.

Dang, the V4 cost almost as much as the clubsports. Car will mainly be a track car so might just go clubsport.

In terms of budget, ideally under $10k for everything. So clubsports and monoballs will probably get me most of the way there. My understanding is that coilover, camber plates (included in the clubsports, not included in V3s) and monoball are the big low hanging fruit in terms of track ROI - anything else I'm missing that you think is crucial?

Good point on diff bushings and sway bars need to be done at the same time. It just so happens that my rear diff bushings are cracked lol. I should go non-OEM/non-rubber for the bushings to prevent that from stress cracks from happening again...

[uncle ben]

Look into the bimmerworld gtmore suspension packages. I think they may have a comprehensive kit in your budget range.

[b_w.]

Mcs package from bimmerworld. I have the 2wnr and find it comfortable on the street.

[4Y_stack_acceleration]

I ended up just going with Vorschlag camber plates and Turner motorsport front thrust arms. Sticking with stock dampers/springs for now and upgrading to KW clubsports and stiffer sway bars at the start of next year's season. Can report back on differences in steering feel/cornering grip on track.

[Fourleaf tayback]

I was in much the same boat as you with a non-ZCP 2016 M4 - I wanted a track-ish car that I could enjoy in the canyons as much as on the track (I don’t daily mine). I wanted the car to overall be a more engaging experience.

I looked at damn near everything - KW Clubsports, KW DDC, MCS 2-way/3-way remote, Tractive Touring or Road/Track, and Bilstein B16 Damptronic, Ohlins Road/Track. I ended up getting the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kit (couldn’t get the Tractives in a timely manner and the MCS 2-way/3-way remote was twice the price of the Bilsteins). At the same time the Bilsteins went on the car, I put on the full SPL parts kit front/rear, Turner differential mount, Girodisc rotors front/rear with Ferodo DS1.11 pads, Speigler SS brake lines with Motul RBF660. I say that to caveat that I didn’t experience just the difference that the Bilsteins made, but rather that whole package. Total cost for the above with install (parts sourced through Racewerkz and install done by EAS - both are FANTASTIC shops by the way) was somewhere around $18k.

This setup dramatically transformed the car. Suspension is much stiffer but much better dampened (I’m running the CS coding, done by Mike Benvo at BPM Sport - he also did the GTS engine/trans/diff/steering + a few other goodies) and the car absolutely feels like it’s on rails. Steering feel is dramatically improved, as is braking. Yes, there is quite a bit more NVH, but who cares!

[4Y_stack_acceleration]

Originally Posted by Fourleaf tayback

I was in much the same boat as you with a non-ZCP 2016 M4 - I wanted a track-ish car that I could enjoy in the canyons as much as on the track (I don’t daily mine). I wanted the car to overall be a more engaging experience.

I looked at damn near everything - KW Clubsports, KW DDC, MCS 2-way/3-way remote, Tractive Touring or Road/Track, and Bilstein B16 Damptronic, Ohlins Road/Track. I ended up getting the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kit (couldn’t get the Tractives in a timely manner and the MCS 2-way/3-way remote was twice the price of the Bilsteins). At the same time the Bilsteins went on the car, I put on the full SPL parts kit front/rear, Turner differential mount, Girodisc rotors front/rear with Ferodo DS1.11 pads, Speigler SS brake lines with Motul RBF660. I say that to caveat that I didn’t experience just the difference that the Bilsteins made, but rather that whole package. Total cost for the above with install (parts sourced through Racewerkz and install done by EAS - both are FANTASTIC shops by the way) was somewhere around $18k.

This setup dramatically transformed the car. Suspension is much stiffer but much better dampened (I’m running the CS coding, done by Mike Benvo at BPM Sport - he also did the GTS engine/trans/diff/steering + a few other goodies) and the car absolutely feels like it’s on rails. Steering feel is dramatically improved, as is braking. Yes, there is quite a bit more NVH, but who cares!

This is helpful. Your upgrade package is over my budget (~$10k for suspension) but I may pick and choose from some of these.

Definitely getting Turner monoballs installed first and I'll see how much that improve steering feel and hard braking stability.

How important do you think is the full SPL parts kit? What does that get you? Is this just to make the bushings more durable with track wear or track alignment or is there a performance improvement?

[RugbyBro]

Having been through a couple suspensions and experienced many, my overall advice is just do it right. I would stay away from springs (even MPHAS) as damping is the primary thing I think you'd want to improve on this platform.

The following are musts:

- Camber Plates

The following are recommended:

- Proper adjustable coilovers w/ matched springs (springs will depend on what usage and chassis dynamics you desire)
- Adjustable end links
- Front monoballs (not for steering but to eliminate front-end squirm under hard braking)
- Camber lock out + adjustable arm in the rear

The following are dependent on your coilover setup + spring selection:

- Adjustable sway bars

If you're looking for a good value suspension that punches above its weight, then I would highly recommend looking at TC Kline. They are an old company and do not have a very sexy name or major brand appeal, however, they make a very good product for the money. It does have some quirks, however, IMO it's easily the best suspension package in the $3.5k price bracket. It's an all inclusive package too - comes with everything you need including camber plates.

[hellokitty]

Originally Posted by 4Y_stack_acceleration

This is helpful. Your upgrade package is over my budget (~$10k for suspension) but I may pick and choose from some of these.

Definitely getting Turner monoballs installed first and I'll see how much that improve steering feel and hard braking stability.

How important do you think is the full SPL parts kit? What does that get you? Is this just to make the bushings more durable with track wear or track alignment or is there a performance improvement?

It depends what your goals are.

If you want to fit a weird tire size like 305 square or something crazy like the Bimmerworld cars, then SPL is a must.

For me, I was able to fit a 265/40/19 and 305/35/19 with SPL arms.

If you buy SPL arms just to get more feel, I don't think it is worth it. However you will NEED SPL arms if you want to run a non-common tire setup.

[FrankEbONEZ]

I've been following this tuning guide from suspension secrets and feel their descriptions have been very accurate with the changes I've felt in the car as I've progressed through the "Handling Packs". Currently on pack 3 + front caster arm monoball bushings. It hasn't steered me wrong yet and will continue to follow it progressing as I feel my driving exceeds each level.

https://suspensionsecrets.co.uk/bmw-...-tuning-guide/

I don't buy my parts through them though. This is simply because of price shopping.

[FrankEbONEZ]

:: Removed, I do indeed have Gen1 Vorshlag Camber plates. Comment is no longer an issue due to Gen2 updates ::

[uncle ben]

Originally Posted by FrankEbONEZ

Also I have vorshlag camber plates and wouldn't recommend them if you think you'll need more than 3.2 deg of camber up front, that's there limit. My tires are telling me I should be closer to 3.5. But they are a great product and have had 0 issues besides the limit in adjustment.

Not sure if you have gen 1 or gen 2 camber plates. I’m sure that vorshlag made changes to allow for more camber. Not sure how much.

[FrankEbONEZ]

Not going to lie, I didn't know there are different generations. I'll check to see how to tell and very well may come back here and delete the vorshlag comments if I do have the older version.

Edit - Confirmed, they are Gen1 not Gen2. Edited post above to reflect. Thanks for the insight Uncle Ben!

[4Y_stack_acceleration]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

Having been through a couple suspensions and experienced many, my overall advice is just do it right. I would stay away from springs (even MPHAS) as damping is the primary thing I think you'd want to improve on this platform.

The following are musts:

- Camber Plates

The following are recommended:

- Proper adjustable coilovers w/ matched springs (springs will depend on what usage and chassis dynamics you desire)
- Adjustable end links
- Front monoballs (not for steering but to eliminate front-end squirm under hard braking)
- Camber lock out + adjustable arm in the rear

The following are dependent on your coilover setup + spring selection:

- Adjustable sway bars

If you're looking for a good value suspension that punches above its weight, then I would highly recommend looking at TC Kline. They are an old company and do not have a very sexy name or major brand appeal, however, they make a very good product for the money. It does have some quirks, however, IMO it's easily the best suspension package in the $3.5k price bracket. It's an all inclusive package too - comes with everything you need including camber plates.

Thank you. Definitely getting camber plates, monoballs and coilovers with matched springs

What is the benefit of adjustable toe links and rear control arms?

And regarding camber lockout, how bad is the alignment drift when tracking these cars?

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by 4Y_stack_acceleration

Thank you. Definitely getting camber plates, monoballs and coilovers with matched springs

What is the benefit of adjustable toe links and rear control arms?

And regarding camber lockout, how bad is the alignment drift when tracking these cars?

Toe links mean you can get more than about -1.9-2. the factory setup is sitting on the edge of adjustment for a mild track alignment.

Camber lockout I noticed rubbing and one wheel was about .4 off from the other side. I added shims after that. Not sure how common it is, but it is cheap.

[herbotis]

It's been bout 8 months since I got my M3 (same trim as yours). Here's my take on your mod list that might give you insight on your roadmap:

1. MCS 1 Way Suspension (No reservoir)
2. SPL rear toe/traction arm + front pillow ball mounts for tension arm
3. H&R F/R swaybar
4. BM3 Tuner (GTS Tune) & Protools (GTS Steering, Diff tune, DCT Tune)
5. AMS Charge pipes (helps with throttle response)

I did get an exhaust and intake, but honestly I don't think they did much (just sound with additional engine response). The downpipe did let the engine breath a tad, but I wouldn't put that on the list of necessary parts. I also got Ap Racing BBK for sanity plus the better pedal feel I get... but not needed.