6MT or DCT?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dmk08

You could always power shift if youre really that worried about it. I used to do it in my TA back in the day lol.

Originally Posted by camMCLEAN

merica

Kids had to get to dirt track somehow

[nachob]

My son is 12 years old and he was telling me that shifters are old school and like paddle shifters better. Then two days ago, he had his left hand and the shifter and I told him OK, put it reverse. I had to hold his hand and push it hard to the left until we got it in reverse and backed out. Then I said, put it first, clutch is in. He got a big grin and said are you sure? Sure son. We drove and I clutched....second....third....second. When we got back he said, dad I get it now...you feel more important moving the stick than flipping paddles. I want to learn to drive a manual. Priceless.

[fdsjkl]

Originally Posted by nachob

My son is 12 years old and he was telling me that shifters are old school and like paddle shifters better. Then two days ago, he had his left hand and the shifter and I told him OK, put it reverse. I had to hold his hand and push it hard to the left until we got it in reverse and backed out. Then I said, put it first, clutch is in. He got a big grin and said are you sure? Sure son. We drove and I clutched....second....third....second. When we got back he said, dad I get it now...you feel more important moving the stick than flipping paddles. I want to learn to drive a manual. Priceless.

That is exactly what I did with my dad an his Peugeot 505 for years when I was 7. And I started driving on my own in the same car with a cushion under my butt in rural area(China, so nothing was illegal at that time) when I was 9 every Sunday afternoon. When my dad bought his first AT car(VW Passet) when I was 12, I told myself I will never buy an AT car.

So, when I went to order M4 this May, dealer tried so hard to convince to take DCT, and said it would be so silly not to (DCT comes standard with all M3/M4 here in Australia, 6MT is a no cost option). He even got me to test drove M6 to prove how good DCT is, but I wasn't convinced. So I ordered the first manual M4 in this whole country according to my dealer.

Now I enjoy it every minute I'm in the car, I push the car very hard in 1st and 2nd and skip straight to 6th most of the time(something you can't do with DCT). The only small issue I have with 6MT is you need to shift really fast in sport+, otherwise, it can be a bit harsh if you release the clutch gently/slowly.

[nachob]

In my first reply, I agreed with the original poster about how in everyday situation there is something magical about timing shifts and the physical interaction between machine and and man when all four limbs are involved in driving. The left hand on the wheel, the right hand shifting, the right foot modulation throttle and the left clutching. This is lost for those of us that enjoy it. Our cars are so powerful now that they are pushing the boundaries of what is safe on the street.

This is what made the 1M for example seem special. The E90 was a better high speed vehicle. It had better aerodynamics, longer wheelbase and could cruise the autobahn at 150 mph and it felt like you were going 110 mph in a normal car. Except for the glorious engine sound it really took pushing the car to very high speeds to get a thrill. The 1M on the other had had a short wheelbase, the aerodynamics of pickup truck, a really loud exhaust and firm suspension. When I hit 150 on the beautiful autobahn, it felt like 1 hundred freakin 50 miles per hour. The wind noise from pushing all the air, the bouncy chassis wanting to dance and the exhaust roar was thrilling.

The car was fun at any speed. Rowing the gears, it was stimulating to all the senses. Then I got home and autocrossed it. As I got braver, I turned off traction control and all hell broke lose. Between the turbo lag, tremendous surge, hellacious wheel spin a la naturel without smoky burnout feature made me realize how easy it was to lose control.

[carholic]

Even when I drive my manual M4 daily, and it shows me a number on the display 2 gears higher than what I am using and I am not driving even at 3000 rpm. The computer just loves to upshift to a useless gear to save gas. I like to drive in the meat of the powerband and not on the brink of lugging the engine. Why have a great engine when you are lugging it most of the time? I also like controlling the timing and severity of engagement and disengagement of the clutch.
To me, it's like playing a video game. I like to know I am using my skills to win. If I can hit "auto" and it will start shooting every bad guy and I am invincible, and all I have to do is steer my character, that surely takes all the fun out of it.
For me, driving a sports car is about fun, not just acceleration numbers. If I were competing on a track for money, then I will surely get a DCT of PDK.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by carholic

Even when I drive my manual M4 daily, and it shows me a number on the display 2 gears higher than what I am using and I am not driving even at 3000 rpm. The computer just loves to upshift to a useless gear to save gas. I like to drive in the meat of the powerband and not on the brink of lugging the engine. Why have a great engine when you are lugging it most of the time? I also like controlling the timing and severity of engagement and disengagement of the clutch.
To me, it's like playing a video game. I like to know I am using my skills to win. If I can hit "auto" and it will start shooting every bad guy and I am invincible, and all I have to do is steer my character, that surely takes all the fun out of it.
For me, driving a sports car is about fun, not just acceleration numbers. If I were competing on a track for money, then I will surely get a DCT of PDK.

Ummm... who drives their DCT in auto? If the DCT is in manual mode (which most people would use) then the ONLY difference is the clutch pedal being pushed in and out by your foot or the computer.

For me... like you... driving a sports car is about fun, not just acceleration numbers I would also not enjoy simply "steering my character" so I'm very glad that's not the case with the DCT

Just cause you can put a DCT in auto mode doesn't mean you have to.

[carholic]

Originally Posted by gthal

Ummm... who drives their DCT in auto? If the DCT is in manual mode (which most people would use) then the ONLY difference is the clutch pedal being pushed in and out by your foot or the computer.

For me... like you... driving a sports car is about fun, not just acceleration numbers I would also not enjoy simply "steering my character" so I'm very glad that's not the case with the DCT

Just cause you can put a DCT in auto mode doesn't mean you have to.

I wonder how many people who have a DCT in this forum, or anywhere for that matter, drives it in manual mode more than even 50% of the time. I know that when I had (and still have a few cars now) with DCT or PDK, I was driving it 90% in auto, because it was just not instinctive to flip the paddles every time. For me, because there was "no fun" in that "flipping paddle" process, I just put it in D and downshift when I need to.

If you are one of the few that put it on manual most of the time, then kudos to you. I believe 90% of the DCT owners (not just this forum, but in general) will drive in D more than half the time. What do you guys think?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by carholic

I wonder how many people who have a DCT in this forum, or anywhere for that matter, drives it in manual mode more than even 50% of the time.

...

I believe 90% of the DCT owners (not just this forum, but in general) will drive in D more than half the time. What do you guys think?

I suspect you are off. It'll likely be similar to:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150368
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368063
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432404

I'd figure no more than 50% (and nowhere near your 90% estimate) will drive in D mode more than half the time.

Irrespective of that and the statistics, it is absolutely good advice for the OP to use S mode since it will likely increase his enjoyment while driving.

For me - and I suspect this is true for many who purchase the DCT transmission - I would not be interested in owning the car if I were not able to dictate the gear ratio exactly when I want it (and immediately when I request it). In fact, one could even go as far as to suppose that if the technology to do so did not exist today, then the DCT transmission (and fast shifting planetary transmissions, too, for that matter) would not have proliferated the way it has in modern performance cars.

[chiplee]

Originally Posted by carholic

I wonder how many people who have a DCT in this forum, or anywhere for that matter, drives it in manual mode more than even 50% of the time. I know that when I had (and still have a few cars now) with DCT or PDK, I was driving it 90% in auto, because it was just not instinctive to flip the paddles every time. For me, because there was "no fun" in that "flipping paddle" process, I just put it in D and downshift when I need to.

If you are one of the few that put it on manual most of the time, then kudos to you. I believe 90% of the DCT owners (not just this forum, but in general) will drive in D more than half the time. What do you guys think?

Quick, put on your flame suit.

You're about to hear you have it exactly backwards, that 90% of owners shift their DCT manually more than 50% of the time. I'm one of them, and it's not because flipping paddles is fun, it's because picking shift points is fun. I drive around in the heart of the power band just like you said you do in your manual, or at least just below it so that power is quickly on tap. The engine sounds sooo good at 3k rpm I just can't stand letting the DCT shift to 5th at 30mph.

[NorCal f80]

New poll?

I drive my DCT in M mode about 80%.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by carholic

I wonder how many people who have a DCT in this forum, or anywhere for that matter, drives it in manual mode more than even 50% of the time. I know that when I had (and still have a few cars now) with DCT or PDK, I was driving it 90% in auto, because it was just not instinctive to flip the paddles every time. For me, because there was "no fun" in that "flipping paddle" process, I just put it in D and downshift when I need to.

If you are one of the few that put it on manual most of the time, then kudos to you. I believe 90% of the DCT owners (not just this forum, but in general) will drive in D more than half the time. What do you guys think?

My car has been in auto 3 times... twice my wife was driving it and once I was eating a burger, drinking a coffee and texting . Other than that, the car is never in auto... like never. Ever. Nadda. I suspect quite a few people on this forum are the same way.

A 6MT forces you to drive in manual. A DCT gives someone the choice. I make no judgement on what someone chooses to do but having owned both cars, the main difference for me is what device pushes the clutch pedal... me or the car.

[ChrisK]

For sport driving I use Manual mode (paddles)
For running errands I use Auto mode.

The choice to me makes DCT great.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 0-100 nga real quick

New poll?

I drive my DCT in M mode about 80%.

I am at 100%.

For such a poll, might I suggest the following options:

- S mode 100%
- S mode about 75%
- 50/50
- D mode about 75%
- D mode 100%

I think we'll see no more than 25% choose the last two.

[NorCal f80]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I am at 100%.

For such a poll, might I suggest the following options:

- S mode 100%
- S mode about 75%
- 50/50
- D mode about 75%
- D mode 100%

I think we'll see no more than 25% choose the last two.

Sorry ----- S mode. I'm still speaking GTR.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by carholic

I wonder how many people who have a DCT in this forum, or anywhere for that matter, drives it in manual mode more than even 50% of the time. I know that when I had (and still have a few cars now) with DCT or PDK, I was driving it 90% in auto, because it was just not instinctive to flip the paddles every time. For me, because there was "no fun" in that "flipping paddle" process, I just put it in D and downshift when I need to.

If you are one of the few that put it on manual most of the time, then kudos to you. I believe 90% of the DCT owners (not just this forum, but in general) will drive in D more than half the time. What do you guys think?

The DCT knob is very ergonomically positioned that you can use it to shift. Even when just cruising around, I use DCT in S pretty much 95% of the time (I shift down with the left paddle and shift up with the knob when being lazy), with the D only being used while the car is warming up to keep the revs down.

The DCT didn't fail you, you failed the DCT.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by modkrazy

The DCT knob is very ergonomically positioned that you can use it to shift. Even when just cruising around, I use DCT in S pretty much 95% of the time (I shift down with the left paddle and shift up with the knob when being lazy), with the D only being used while the car is warming up to keep the revs down.

The DCT didn't fail you, you failed the DCT.

I agree, for me paddles is for the track. Both hands on the wheel all the time. But on the street I only used the DCT shifter, feels more natural for us who learnt to drive and grew up solely with MTs. Having the shifter in one and the same position all the time is helpful to me in everyday driving, the hands position related to the paddles is less intuative as the wheel turns and there are fixed parts as wiper stalks etc that make it feel busy at times. And the DCT shifter has a very nice tactile feel.

That said I likely drove it in auto 90% of the time. Any time I needed predictable and immidiate repsonse or during backroad fun I used the shifter but as soon as the acceleration or spirited drive was over I knocked the shifter to the right. The auto mode is pretty amazing in how it operates, I don't understand why they limit the DCT to three settings now. I found all the settings useful in the "old" DCT and I don't usually like buttons for the car ( I prefer passive suspension, one good steering, one throttle setting etc. ) but for the DCT it was very useful to have a larger range of settings.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I am at 100%.

For such a poll, might I suggest the following options:

- S mode 100%
- S mode about 75%
- 50/50
- D mode about 75%
- D mode 100%

I think we'll see no more than 25% choose the last two.

Hilarious - over the last few days I've been thinking about just such a poll ... anybody?

[Hawaii i8]

DCT paddle shifters 100% of the time, everything set to sport plus all the time

The M4 is actually amazingly easy to drive in those modes, I had a 430 Scuderia previous and the gear box could be really jerky (Kangaroo style) in Race mode when starting off, so its nice to have a great gearbox that makes shifting so enjoyable.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by BigIslandM4

DCT paddle shifters 100% of the time, everything set to sport plus all the time

The M4 is actually amazingly easy to drive in those modes, I had a 430 Scuderia previous and the gear box could be really jerky (Kangaroo style) in Race mode when starting off, so its nice to have a great gearbox that makes shifting so enjoyable.

The shifts on the 430 was like getting your wind knocked out from getting punched in the abs every time you shifted. I kinda dug it. But it kinda felt like I was a masochist.

[xnu]

I'd have to argue due to the precision of the DCT you have more control of the car than a 6MT at high speeds and in tight corners.

[Hawaii i8]

Originally Posted by trinim3

The shifts on the 430 was like getting your wind knocked out from getting punched in the abs every time you shifted. I kinda dug it. But it kinda felt like I was a masochist.

Yep it was like been hit in the back of the head on upshifts :-) Mind you I'm fairly impressed with the M4's upshifts, foot to the floor with everything in "nutter mode" that car has an upshift punch all of its own (All be it rather more refined then the Scuderia's :-))

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by BigIslandM4

DCT paddle shifters 100% of the time, everything set to sport plus all the time

The M4 is actually amazingly easy to drive in those modes, I had a 430 Scuderia previous and the gear box could be really jerky (Kangaroo style) in Race mode when starting off, so its nice to have a great gearbox that makes shifting so enjoyable.

just out of curiosity, where on the Big Isle would one drive a car hard? Especially a ferrari?