Next Level Auto Brokers
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-30-2021, 04:15 PM   #1
TopJimmy
Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1597
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

The Turbos+EU5+LiftKit thread

I see many of us are in-works with this new combo:
- bigger turbos
- Dorch vacuum pump lift kit
- stock HPFPs
- EU5 direct injectors
- custom tune for Turbos+EU5+Dorch
- (optional) piggyback LPFP and Hobbs
- (optional) extra beef or built motor

Our intention seems to be retention of the DME as the single controller for fueling reliability and fail-safes. Current part vendor statements tout about 30% increased fuel volume delivery with this setup. Fuels and goals will vary…

Let's use this thread as a log of our progress. If you have a setup in-works or in-use please post with your setup details, end goals, and current progress. If you have a Stage1 HPFPs instead of (or added to) the lift kit please post too, since this is similar in fueling capacity.

Notes/Disclaimers:
- If you're just asking questions and haven't invested yet, please hold off and read the EU5 injector thread first. Yes it needs custom tuned fuel maps and a small mixture reset, no OTS tune will do.
- Yes this voids your warranty, and some will eat a motor. This is Pay-To-Play for sure.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 2
MJ6629.50
      07-30-2021, 04:17 PM   #2
TopJimmy
Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1597
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

My build is in-works at BMB in NJ.
- spare built motor and head in works
- Kratos EVOs coming in 2 weeks
- Dorch vac pump arrived, core returned
- EU5 injectors in-hand, flow tested by RC

I plan on putting this in a DCT M3 for quarter mile dragstrip use. My goal is to get into the Nines.

I haven't finalized on the DCT build yet since I was planning to build my stick F80 but the motor will be too much for the manual. I already have synchro buzz shifting a 600WHP Paul balls-out tune.
Attached Images
 
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 1
      07-30-2021, 06:07 PM   #3
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Current build awaiting the E85 portion of a flex-fuel tune via Cary Jordan.

- Stock Motor
- AR Design High-Flow Catted DP's
- BMC Drop-in's
- Kratos KRAS55Bi turbo's
- EU5 Injectors
- Dorch Vacuum Pump Lift Kit
- Bend Calibration Flex-Fuel w/Zeitronix ECA-2
- Stock HPFP's
- Stock LPFP
- Clutch Masters FX250 w/Stock DMFW

My main goal for this build is really more of a set-it and forget-it type of beast (hence the flex-fuel) that keeps the stock DME fail-safe protocols in place without introducing too many additional points of potential failure. I'm not looking to break any records mind you, just enjoy the thrill of driving a high-powered and well tuned driving machine with enough bastard hiding under the hood to snap necks

Cary and I have been working on the 93 octane road tune, but are scheduled to head in next week in order to polish it up on the dyno and work on the E85 half of the flex-tune.

I went ahead and performed a before dyno of my car with a Stage 2 custom Jordan tune so it will be easier to compare delta's. I'm also considering having a HCP flex-tune performed down the line on the same dyno for the sake of comparison.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP

Last edited by MJ6; 07-31-2021 at 03:56 PM..
Appreciate 3
TopJimmy1597.00
astris116.00
      08-02-2021, 09:07 AM   #4
BYT_M4C
Private
United_States
35
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: '20 M4C, '73 Cuda, '98 RSTi
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Poconos, PA

iTrader: (0)

I read through the installation instructions for that lift pump kit, WOW! If you are doing this mod and haven't addressed the crank hub in anyway, this would be the perfect opportunity to knock out both things at the same time!

Edit, sorry, wasn't addressed to you Jimmy! I meant for anyone reading this considering the lift pump upgrade.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2021, 09:26 PM   #5
Bluer2
Captain
429
Rep
736
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BYT_M4C View Post
I read through the installation instructions for that lift pump kit, WOW! If you are doing this mod and haven't addressed the crank hub in anyway, this would be the perfect opportunity to knock out both things at the same time!

Edit, sorry, wasn't addressed to you Jimmy! I meant for anyone reading this considering the lift pump upgrade.
shit might as well do a turbo upgrade at the same time. kill 3 birds with one stone.
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2021, 05:16 PM   #6
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
So my dyno tune session with Jordan Tuned was today, and if I'm being quite honest I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's tuner related or mod related, but it does leave me with questions. I will state that communication and turn around on revisions was great despite their voice communication system being down.

A few caveats before the results: the tune was performed remotely via DynoJet but utilized SAE correction as opposed to STD correction during the majority of the pulls until the dyno operator figured out how to adjust them. Jordan Tuned also thinks that I may have a small boost leak somewhere (my builder is looking into it this week), and BM3 stopped communicating with my DME on the tail end of the E85 tune so we didn't have an opportunity to hit final revision status.

We started off by polishing up the 93 octane road tune; based on some of the results I'd seen I expected to be able to hit the magical 600whp mark relatively easy. Numbers aren't everything, but after a baseline 506wtq and 483whp on a custom stage 2 tune, I admit that expected a bit more than 561wtq and 539whp. While SAE does use a more strict correction factor, and if there is a boost leak it could obviously effect the outcome, I was informed that we we're "octane limited" which was a bit confusing given the reported results others have experienced on not only Kratos turbos, but Pures and GC's as well.

The E85 tune took some time, and we did experience some boost spiking which could have been attributed to the suspected boost leak. Although we didn't have the chance to finish it up due to the DME having communication issues, one of the last successful runs we had (STD correction) was 695wtq and 662whp. I have to admit, on a stock bottom end the 695wtq concerns me, and 662whp when alternate fueling typically nets 700whp+ feels off. Again, this could either be a limitation of the EU5's and upgraded HPFP's or the simple fact that we weren't able to finalize the tune.

Ultimately, I'm left unsure. The 93 octane tune left me feeling subpar, and the E85 results are concerning to me (albeit unfinished). I'm still considering moving forward with Halim and HCP being that he worked directly with Kratos and Dorch with the EU5 injectors previously, but I'll want to check for a boost leak first obviously.

I'm still learning to read the logs, but nothing drastic jumps out at me; if one of you guys wouldn't mind taking a look though I would be appreciated so I have a better idea of what to look for.

Data Log Links
93 octane :https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431bdc8a387c

E85: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431c63426ca0
Attached Images
  
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP

Last edited by MJ6; 08-03-2021 at 07:41 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2021, 08:50 PM   #7
TopJimmy
Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1597
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

MJ6 for big turbos and improved fueling I'm feeling the same as you looking at those charts.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2021, 12:19 AM   #8
///BMW Junkie
Captain
///BMW Junkie's Avatar
United_States
322
Rep
849
Posts

Drives: AW M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (0)

@MJ6 maybe some 60–130 can help paint a better picture.

How much boost for both maps?
__________________
Pure F82
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2021, 06:51 AM   #9
BYT_M4C
Private
United_States
35
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: '20 M4C, '73 Cuda, '98 RSTi
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Poconos, PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluer2 View Post
shit might as well do a turbo upgrade at the same time. kill 3 birds with one stone.
Seems like the logical choice, I'm with it!
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2021, 07:01 AM   #10
BYT_M4C
Private
United_States
35
Rep
53
Posts

Drives: '20 M4C, '73 Cuda, '98 RSTi
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Poconos, PA

iTrader: (0)

MJ6 If they suspected you had a boost leak why did they just keep on tuning around it? Why wouldn't you pull it off as soon as that was suspected?
Appreciate 1
MJ6629.50
      08-04-2021, 08:04 AM   #11
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
MJ6 for big turbos and improved fueling I'm feeling the same as you looking at those charts.
It definitely does seem underpowered given the components involved. I do see that the WGDC is in the mid 90's once full spool is hit, so while there may be valid concern for a small boost leak, I wouldn't expect it to have this drastic of an effect, let alone result in being limited by octane at those numbers. The HPFP targets are higher than I've seen others hit on E85 with EU5's as well (belittle), mind you that was with the Spool system and not Dorch, but it makes me wonder if the injector scaling is off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
@MJ6
How much boost for both maps?
From what it looks like the 93octane tune hit 26psi tapering to about 23psi at the top end, and E85 hit 34psi tapering to 29psi, both being very respectable targets (if not high on the E85 side).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BYT_M4C View Post
MJ6 If they suspected you had a boost leak why did they just keep on tuning around it? Why wouldn't you pull it off as soon as that was suspected?
That made me scratch my head as well; it wasn't until we were half way through the E85 tune that the possibility of a boost leak was even brought up


Another option I'm considering is working with Avtandil over at ABP as he's been working the EU5's for quite awhile now and actually suggested the Dorch upgrade when I spoke to him last. While I'd like to get HCP on board, they've been difficult to nail down.
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP

Last edited by MJ6; 08-04-2021 at 09:22 AM..
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy1597.00
      08-04-2021, 08:26 AM   #12
TopJimmy
Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1597
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

This is the kind of stuff I wanted in this thread.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 1
      08-04-2021, 08:59 AM   #13
Commanderwiggin
Captain
Commanderwiggin's Avatar
United_States
1371
Rep
929
Posts

Drives: 19 M2C;12 X5 35D;Turbo E46 M3
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Socal

iTrader: (2)

Looks like you need to find that boost leak and pray your rods stay together. 92% gate on E85, you shouldn't even be looking at the dyno. I'd say Jordan did a pretty good job based on the logs given the situation.
__________________
575RWHP F87 M2C - ECUTEK RACEROM with flex fuel tuning by Bend Calibration
1000+RWHP E46 M3, Lab22 Built Turbo S54, Bend Calibration Tuned - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
Appreciate 2
      08-04-2021, 09:17 AM   #14
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Looks like you need to find that boost leak and pray your rods stay together. 92% gate on E85, you shouldn't even be looking at the dyno. I'd say Jordan did a pretty good job based on the logs given the situation.
I'm dropping my car off today to have the clutch swapped out and to do a boost leak test, so hopefully the leak is found and addressed.

The rods are honestly one thing that still concerns me; at one point we had it up around 655wtq which is where I figured we'd stay for the sake of safety; why I kept seeing an increase in torque after it was mentioned that we needed to keep it below 680 on the stock bottom end is beyond me. If the WGDC was that high, along with a potential boost leak and torque values above what could be considered safe, why wasn't the plug pulled? Again, we didn't have a chance to finalize the tune due to DME communication issues, but I almost feel like it may have been a saving grace at that point.
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP

Last edited by MJ6; 08-04-2021 at 09:25 AM..
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy1597.00
      08-04-2021, 09:28 AM   #15
///BMW Junkie
Captain
///BMW Junkie's Avatar
United_States
322
Rep
849
Posts

Drives: AW M4
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Washington DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Looks like you need to find that boost leak and pray your rods stay together. 92% gate on E85, you shouldn't even be looking at the dyno. I'd say Jordan did a pretty good job based on the logs given the situation.
I'm dropping my car off today to have the clutch swapped out and to do a boost leak test, so hopefully the leak is found and addressed.

The rods are honestly one thing that still concerns me; at one point we had it up around 655wtq which is where I figured we'd stay for the sake of safety; why I kept seeing an increase in torque after it was mentioned that we needed to keep it below 680 on the stock bottom end is beyond me. If the WGDC was that high, along with a potential boost leak and torque values above what could be considered safe, why wasn't the plug pulled? Again, we didn't have a chance to finalize the tune due to DME communication issues, but I almost feel like that may have been a saving grace as opposed to continuing to push it.
I'm just curious, hypothetically even with DME communication issues resolved, how could you finalize a map with a boost leak? Like having a misfire or something, shouldn't all hardware issues be resolved before a tune can be polished a 100% and marked complete, especially if on a dyno?
__________________
Pure F82
Appreciate 2
MJ6629.50
TopJimmy1597.00
      08-04-2021, 09:48 AM   #16
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///BMW Junkie View Post
I'm just curious, hypothetically even with DME communication issues resolved, how could you finalize a map with a boost leak? Like having a misfire or something, shouldn't all hardware issues be resolved before a tune can be polished a 100% and marked complete, especially if on a dyno?
Which is the primary reason I'm confused as to why the session was allowed to continue after a suspected issue was mentioned. I'm trying to keep an open mind here, but between the 93octane tune results and reaching higher than safely recommended wtq AFTER a suspected boost leak was mentioned, I'm not left feeling super confident that I want to stick it out with the same tuner if/when the leak is fixed.
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy1597.00
      08-05-2021, 09:31 AM   #17
Sales@KRATOS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Sales@KRATOS's Avatar
480
Rep
181
Posts


Drives: The Spirit of Racing
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
So my dyno tune session with Jordan Tuned was today, and if I'm being quite honest I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's tuner related or mod related, but it does leave me with questions. I will state that communication and turn around on revisions was great despite their voice communication system being down.

A few caveats before the results: the tune was performed remotely via DynoJet but utilized SAE correction as opposed to STD correction during the majority of the pulls until the dyno operator figured out how to adjust them. Jordan Tuned also thinks that I may have a small boost leak somewhere (my builder is looking into it this week), and BM3 stopped communicating with my DME on the tail end of the E85 tune so we didn't have an opportunity to hit final revision status.

We started off by polishing up the 93 octane road tune; based on some of the results I'd seen I expected to be able to hit the magical 600whp mark relatively easy. Numbers aren't everything, but after a baseline 506wtq and 483whp on a custom stage 2 tune, I admit that expected a bit more than 561wtq and 539whp. While SAE does use a more strict correction factor, and if there is a boost leak it could obviously effect the outcome, I was informed that we we're "octane limited" which was a bit confusing given the reported results others have experienced on not only Kratos turbos, but Pures and GC's as well.

The E85 tune took some time, and we did experience some boost spiking which could have been attributed to the suspected boost leak. Although we didn't have the chance to finish it up due to the DME having communication issues, one of the last successful runs we had (STD correction) was 695wtq and 662whp. I have to admit, on a stock bottom end the 695wtq concerns me, and 662whp when alternate fueling typically nets 700whp+ feels off. Again, this could either be a limitation of the EU5's and upgraded HPFP's or the simple fact that we weren't able to finalize the tune.

Ultimately, I'm left unsure. The 93 octane tune left me feeling subpar, and the E85 results are concerning to me (albeit unfinished). I'm still considering moving forward with Halim and HCP being that he worked directly with Kratos and Dorch with the EU5 injectors previously, but I'll want to check for a boost leak first obviously.

I'm still learning to read the logs, but nothing drastic jumps out at me; if one of you guys wouldn't mind taking a look though I would be appreciated so I have a better idea of what to look for.

Data Log Links
93 octane :https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431bdc8a387c

E85: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431c63426ca0
Based on the logs provided, we can clearly see that your car is definitely not producing the boost level below 4k that we tend to normally see on both our cars and our customers cars. For example, on your pump gas log your car is producing significantly less boost at 3500rpm than the vast majority of logs with our KRAS55Bi's installed. Also, you'll notice your car struggles to maintain boost in the upper rpms as shown by boost deviation. Therefore, it would seem there is some sort of boost leak occurring that would need to be addressed.

We also noticed that you have quite a bit of timing correction occurring on the pump gas log. We're not going to speculate as to the cause of this, but it's definitely robbing quite a bit of power as you should be well into the mid 600whp mark on just 93 octane alone based on all the data we've collected as well as what's been posted by others.

Lastly, both logs show HPFP targets to be significantly higher than what's needed considering you have the Dorch lift kit installed. The Dorch lift kit increases HPFP volume by 38% and therefore does not require 3700psi+ fuel targets once installed. In addition, high HPFP targets are directly related to DI injector failure. We target a HPFP average of 2900-3000psi with the Dorch lift kit and EU5's installed on E85 and have produced amazing results with fuel to spare. As a matter of fact, just yesterday one of SSR Performance's customers cars just produced 800whp with EU5's on E85 and stock HPFP's. Granted, this is a built engine car that is still in the process of being tuned with the power turned up but that doesn't change the fact that EU5 injectors alone can support 800whp safely on E85.

Once you address these issues you'll be well on your way to producing the power level that should be expected of your setup.
Appreciate 6
MJ6629.50
TopJimmy1597.00
StockM440.50
sly1types216.50
      08-05-2021, 10:03 AM   #18
MJ6
First Lieutenant
MJ6's Avatar
United_States
630
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: 2018 M4 ZCP 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2018 BMW M4 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
So my dyno tune session with Jordan Tuned was today, and if I'm being quite honest I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's tuner related or mod related, but it does leave me with questions. I will state that communication and turn around on revisions was great despite their voice communication system being down.

A few caveats before the results: the tune was performed remotely via DynoJet but utilized SAE correction as opposed to STD correction during the majority of the pulls until the dyno operator figured out how to adjust them. Jordan Tuned also thinks that I may have a small boost leak somewhere (my builder is looking into it this week), and BM3 stopped communicating with my DME on the tail end of the E85 tune so we didn't have an opportunity to hit final revision status.

We started off by polishing up the 93 octane road tune; based on some of the results I'd seen I expected to be able to hit the magical 600whp mark relatively easy. Numbers aren't everything, but after a baseline 506wtq and 483whp on a custom stage 2 tune, I admit that expected a bit more than 561wtq and 539whp. While SAE does use a more strict correction factor, and if there is a boost leak it could obviously effect the outcome, I was informed that we we're "octane limited" which was a bit confusing given the reported results others have experienced on not only Kratos turbos, but Pures and GC's as well.

The E85 tune took some time, and we did experience some boost spiking which could have been attributed to the suspected boost leak. Although we didn't have the chance to finish it up due to the DME having communication issues, one of the last successful runs we had (STD correction) was 695wtq and 662whp. I have to admit, on a stock bottom end the 695wtq concerns me, and 662whp when alternate fueling typically nets 700whp+ feels off. Again, this could either be a limitation of the EU5's and upgraded HPFP's or the simple fact that we weren't able to finalize the tune.

Ultimately, I'm left unsure. The 93 octane tune left me feeling subpar, and the E85 results are concerning to me (albeit unfinished). I'm still considering moving forward with Halim and HCP being that he worked directly with Kratos and Dorch with the EU5 injectors previously, but I'll want to check for a boost leak first obviously.

I'm still learning to read the logs, but nothing drastic jumps out at me; if one of you guys wouldn't mind taking a look though I would be appreciated so I have a better idea of what to look for.

Data Log Links
93 octane :https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431bdc8a387c

E85: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431c63426ca0
Based on the logs provided, we can clearly see that your car is definitely not producing the boost level below 4k that we tend to normally see on both our cars and our customers cars. For example, on your pump gas log your car is producing significantly less boost at 3500rpm than the vast majority of logs with our KRAS55Bi's installed. Also, you'll notice your car struggles to maintain boost in the upper rpms as shown by boost deviation. Therefore, it would seem there is some sort of boost leak occurring that would need to be addressed.

We also noticed that you have quite a bit of timing correction occurring on the pump gas log. We're not going to speculate as to the cause of this, but it's definitely robbing quite a bit of power as you should be well into the mid 600whp mark on just 93 octane alone based on all the data we've collected as well as what's been posted by others.

Lastly, both logs show HPFP targets to be significantly higher than what's needed considering you have the Dorch lift kit installed. The Dorch lift kit increases HPFP volume by 38% and therefore does not require 3700psi+ fuel targets once installed. In addition, high HPFP targets are directly related to DI injector failure. We target a HPFP average of 2900-3000psi with the Dorch lift kit and EU5's installed on E85 and have produced amazing results with fuel to spare. As a matter of fact, just yesterday one of SSR Performance's customers cars just produced 800whp with EU5's on E85 and stock HPFP's. Granted, this is a built engine car that is still in the process of being tuned with the power turned up but that doesn't change the fact that EU5 injectors alone can support 800whp safely on E85.

Once you address these issues you'll be well on your way to producing the power level that should be expected of your setup.
I appreciate the feedback!
My mechanic who performed the installation has the car now and will be performing a smoke test to check for boost leaks, so hopefully it sheds some light on things.

On the timing side, I did only have about a gallon of 93 in the tank at the time to facilitate swapping over to E85. I'm wondering if by being so low the fuel might not have been as pure down low (possible tank sediment contamination?) or if the car has some kind of safety measures in place to prevent starvation at low fuel levels. In the future I plan on doing two separate sessions on full tanks for each fuel.

The HPFP values stuck out to me as well as one of the logs from belittle's car with the Spool FX150 HPFP system recorded target pressures of only 2900, much lower than the 3700 my logs were showing. The EU5's are brand new and calibrated via ISTA, so I'm left wondering if the difference could potentially be attributed to not being scaled correctly. If I'm being honest, when I initially let Jordan Tuned know that I planned on using EU5 injectors I received and email stating that they "highly recommended you "DO NOT" use the EU5 injectors(will just create problems/issues). Better to go with Auxiliary Fueling (Port Injection or Methanol Injection)." In hind sight it's making me wonder if their unfamiliarity with them is playing a big part in that regard.

All said, I'm hoping the boost leak can be identified this week, and I've reached out to both HCP and ABP (two tuners KNOWN to have extensive experience with EU5 injectors on this platform) so I'll be moving forward with one of them depending on who's more responsive at this point.
__________________
2018 F82 ZCP 6MT: FBO, Kratos KRAS55Bi, EU5 Injectors, Dorch HPFP Lift Kit, Stage 3 LPFP, Bend Calibration Zeitronix ECA-2, BM3 Flex-Fuel Tune from ABP
Appreciate 1
TopJimmy1597.00
      08-05-2021, 12:01 PM   #19
TopJimmy
Colonel
TopJimmy's Avatar
United_States
1597
Rep
2,069
Posts

Drives: BMW M3 F80
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Chester County, PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS View Post
We target a HPFP average of 2900-3000psi with the Dorch lift kit and EU5's installed on E85 and have produced amazing results with fuel to spare.
Kudos and Good Vibes to Sales@KRATOS for reading logs and chiming in with the good knowledge. This is a big reason why I buy from them.
__________________
'18 F80 Base 6MT | Paul's E85 | Stock Turbos | Kies Hub | FBOs | 7sec 60-130 | 11.7sec 1/4mi@124
Appreciate 2
MJ6629.50
sly1types216.50
      08-05-2021, 12:17 PM   #20
Sales@KRATOS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Sales@KRATOS's Avatar
480
Rep
181
Posts


Drives: The Spirit of Racing
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
I appreciate the feedback!
My mechanic who performed the installation has the car now and will be performing a smoke test to check for boost leaks, so hopefully it sheds some light on things.

On the timing side, I did only have about a gallon of 93 in the tank at the time to facilitate swapping over to E85. I'm wondering if by being so low the fuel might not have been as pure down low (possible tank sediment contamination?) or if the car has some kind of safety measures in place to prevent starvation at low fuel levels. In the future I plan on doing two separate sessions on full tanks for each fuel.

The HPFP values stuck out to me as well as one of the logs from belittle's car with the Spool FX150 HPFP system recorded target pressures of only 2900, much lower than the 3700 my logs were showing. The EU5's are brand new and calibrated via ISTA, so I'm left wondering if the difference could potentially be attributed to not being scaled correctly. If I'm being honest, when I initially let Jordan Tuned know that I planned on using EU5 injectors I received and email stating that they "highly recommended you "DO NOT" use the EU5 injectors(will just create problems/issues). Better to go with Auxiliary Fueling (Port Injection or Methanol Injection)." In hind sight it's making me wonder if their unfamiliarity with them is playing a big part in that regard.

All said, I'm hoping the boost leak can be identified this week, and I've reached out to both HCP and ABP (two tuners KNOWN to have extensive experience with EU5 injectors on this platform) so I'll be moving forward with one of them depending on who's more responsive at this point.
Stay positive and have comfort in knowing you still have plenty room to go regarding your power output on both pump 93 and E85 once you get everything sorted out. Feel free to reach out to us to info@asrkratos.com at any point if you need any further direct support!
Appreciate 1
MJ6629.50
      08-05-2021, 12:18 PM   #21
Sales@KRATOS
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Sales@KRATOS's Avatar
480
Rep
181
Posts


Drives: The Spirit of Racing
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy View Post
Kudos and Good Vibes to Sales@KRATOS for reading logs and chiming in with the good knowledge. This is a big reason why I buy from them.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2021, 06:41 PM   #22
StockM4
Second Lieutenant
United_States
41
Rep
202
Posts

Drives: BMW M4
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Los gatos

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sales@KRATOS View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ6 View Post
So my dyno tune session with Jordan Tuned was today, and if I'm being quite honest I'm a little underwhelmed. I'm not sure if it's tuner related or mod related, but it does leave me with questions. I will state that communication and turn around on revisions was great despite their voice communication system being down.

A few caveats before the results: the tune was performed remotely via DynoJet but utilized SAE correction as opposed to STD correction during the majority of the pulls until the dyno operator figured out how to adjust them. Jordan Tuned also thinks that I may have a small boost leak somewhere (my builder is looking into it this week), and BM3 stopped communicating with my DME on the tail end of the E85 tune so we didn't have an opportunity to hit final revision status.

We started off by polishing up the 93 octane road tune; based on some of the results I'd seen I expected to be able to hit the magical 600whp mark relatively easy. Numbers aren't everything, but after a baseline 506wtq and 483whp on a custom stage 2 tune, I admit that expected a bit more than 561wtq and 539whp. While SAE does use a more strict correction factor, and if there is a boost leak it could obviously effect the outcome, I was informed that we we're "octane limited" which was a bit confusing given the reported results others have experienced on not only Kratos turbos, but Pures and GC's as well.

The E85 tune took some time, and we did experience some boost spiking which could have been attributed to the suspected boost leak. Although we didn't have the chance to finish it up due to the DME having communication issues, one of the last successful runs we had (STD correction) was 695wtq and 662whp. I have to admit, on a stock bottom end the 695wtq concerns me, and 662whp when alternate fueling typically nets 700whp+ feels off. Again, this could either be a limitation of the EU5's and upgraded HPFP's or the simple fact that we weren't able to finalize the tune.

Ultimately, I'm left unsure. The 93 octane tune left me feeling subpar, and the E85 results are concerning to me (albeit unfinished). I'm still considering moving forward with Halim and HCP being that he worked directly with Kratos and Dorch with the EU5 injectors previously, but I'll want to check for a boost leak first obviously.

I'm still learning to read the logs, but nothing drastic jumps out at me; if one of you guys wouldn't mind taking a look though I would be appreciated so I have a better idea of what to look for.

Data Log Links
93 octane :https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431bdc8a387c

E85: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6109...0b431c63426ca0
Based on the logs provided, we can clearly see that your car is definitely not producing the boost level below 4k that we tend to normally see on both our cars and our customers cars. For example, on your pump gas log your car is producing significantly less boost at 3500rpm than the vast majority of logs with our KRAS55Bi's installed. Also, you'll notice your car struggles to maintain boost in the upper rpms as shown by boost deviation. Therefore, it would seem there is some sort of boost leak occurring that would need to be addressed.

We also noticed that you have quite a bit of timing correction occurring on the pump gas log. We're not going to speculate as to the cause of this, but it's definitely robbing quite a bit of power as you should be well into the mid 600whp mark on just 93 octane alone based on all the data we've collected as well as what's been posted by others.

Lastly, both logs show HPFP targets to be significantly higher than what's needed considering you have the Dorch lift kit installed. The Dorch lift kit increases HPFP volume by 38% and therefore does not require 3700psi+ fuel targets once installed. In addition, high HPFP targets are directly related to DI injector failure. We target a HPFP average of 2900-3000psi with the Dorch lift kit and EU5's installed on E85 and have produced amazing results with fuel to spare. As a matter of fact, just yesterday one of SSR Performance's customers cars just produced 800whp with EU5's on E85 and stock HPFP's. Granted, this is a built engine car that is still in the process of being tuned with the power turned up but that doesn't change the fact that EU5 injectors alone can support 800whp safely on E85.

Once you address these issues you'll be well on your way to producing the power level that should be expected of your setup.
So what your saying is if i go upgraded turbos i can run full E85 with just EU5 injectors? And stock hpfp? Or would u recommend to atleast get the hpfp lift kit with the EU5 injectors.
Im stock motor if that makes a difference to your answer.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:19 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST