Suggestions for a track car

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

Agreed, they both will cost considerable money to maintain and each has a list of "must dos" to get them track ready. The initial cost of acquisition seems to be getting a little closer, at least for M3's.

Get an E36 because its one of the best handling chassis every made, not because it will be "cheap". Doesn't take too much work to get it to 2600lbs, and with 200-240whp its a pretty fun and quick track car.

Eh, the e46 is e36 2.0. It's very similar in every aspect, just updated/refined/improved/strengthened.

Stiffer chassis, better tire fitment, engine that's better suited for track use, better diff, better brakes (997 race cars retrofit the e46 M3 ABS system to gain a competitive advantage), etc.

Said as someone who had a 2400 lb, s50b32 track e36 m3 (as well as a street s52 e36 M3 that I tracked a couple times)!

E.g. the e46 has subframe mounts that need to be reenforced.

The e36 needs...
the subframe itself
RTAB pockets
front sway bar mounts
rear sway bar mounts
front shock towers
rear shock towers
RSMs

all need to be reenforced.

[Mandi90TT]

Here is a Spec Z listed for $14k in Texas. Fully prepped race car, and as a previous Nissan guy, the Z cars are pretty good.

[dth656]

if the various reinforcements have been done, along with cooling, and brakes, what are the other common points of failure in an E36 track rat? if the car won't see actual racing, but maybe 5 to 10 HPDEs per year?

some friends and i had been debating a few options for a streetable track rat:
-E36 or e46 M3 w/ half cage, BBK and reinforcements and reliability mods
-ND miata with BBK, roll bar and seats/harnesses
-used 981
-350z--although these are relatively heavy, and most likely need significant work

thanks in advance

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by dth656

if the various reinforcements have been done, along with cooling, and brakes, what are the other common points of failure in an E36 track rat? if the car won't see actual racing, but maybe 5 to 10 HPDEs per year?

some friends and i had been debating a few options for a streetable track rat:
-E36 or e46 M3 w/ half cage, BBK and reinforcements and reliability mods
-ND miata with BBK, roll bar and seats/harnesses
-used 981
-350z--although these are relatively heavy, and most likely need significant work

thanks in advance

Once the e36 chassis bits are done, you still need to secure the oil pump nut, stick a finned diff cover on the diff, add baffles to the oil pan...

The e46 M3 is just a better starting point. Locking down the subframe mounts is cheap/easy if you do it before failure, and then the chassis reinforcement is done. Do the vanos lock down ($450 in parts and an afternoon of work) and replace bearings as oil analysis says they're required (mine first came up at 125,000 total miles, ~10,000 of which were track miles).

That's all the reliability issues locked down.

[Mantii]

Originally Posted by Obioban

Once the e36 chassis bits are done, you still need to secure the oil pump nut, stick a finned diff cover on the diff, add baffles to the oil pan...

The e46 M3 is just a better starting point. Locking down the subframe mounts is cheap/easy if you do it before failure, and then the chassis reinforcement is done. Do the vanos lock down ($450 in parts and an afternoon of work) and replace bearings as oil analysis says they're required (mine first came up at 125,000 total miles, ~10,000 of which were track miles).

That's all the reliability issues locked down.

Completely agree. You dont have to go crazy with the e46 right away and all at once as it will add up pretty fast. I've been building mine out over the past year and the done the biggest leap this month in terms of safety and track prep

Depending on miles of the car and if any of the major problem areas have been tackled, I recommend doing a cooling overhaul first, and then get the subframe done. You could tackle the valve adjust yourself and check the Vanos and bolts at the same time. If it's still good, you could postpone the Vanos work a little into the future to spread out the costs a bit more. Anything else you can do to strengthen the chassis is always good, such as shock towers, front subframe, upgraded bushings, etc. it will take some time and money, but again, doesn't have to be done over night and enjoy the process. A sorted e46 can be a weapon on the track and quite fun. Keep up with maintenance and most people will tell you it's quite reliable.

Here is my build with the cage I had just done

[Caliboy951]

Get a Radical (all models are good), they're not expensive and very easy to maintain. I'm getting one next year even though I've built my M4 into a track car (BBK, full suspension, aero package and the list goes on).
You can pick one up on Ebay for a good price if you're patient.
Here a nice video of a Radical:

[w00tw00t]

Just get an S2000 - Cheap car, cheap repair, cheap mods... AMAZING Fun on the track and super fast!

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by Caliboy951

Get a Radical (all models are good), they're not expensive and very easy to maintain. I'm getting one next year even though I've built my M4 into a track car (BBK, full suspension, aero package and the list goes on).
You can pick one up on Ebay for a good price if you're patient.

Yes they look fun as hell, they scare the shit out of me though. I race against them with my E36. They're in with us I guess because they are considered closed wheel cars. You can't see them when they are on your rear fender since they're so low to the ground. You just have to know they are there.

Last race, we had a dangerous situation with a radical spun out and stalled sideways in the middle of the track over a blind hill on the first lap of a race. i was bunched up with a Camaro and luckily was able avoid the radical but the Camaro T boned it. Worked great as a pick for me and luckily no was seriously hurt. Sure does make me nervous to see 4000 lbs vs. 1800 lbs though.

[Obioban]

Just because it's current (yesterday), a modded (privately owned, non professional driver) e46 m3 just put down a 6:57 btg Nürburgring lap time yesterday (non closed track-- so with traffic).

[MaynardZed]

Nice! That's no starter track car as you know though. Easily has $50-60K into that car I'd be willing to bet.

CAE shifter FTW

[ban25]

If you're looking for a 370Z, I'm selling mine:

http://www.the370z.com/cars-sale-private-classifieds/122441-2009-370z-m6-sport-touring-sale.html

It's in excellent condition and all it's missing as a dedicated race car is to strip the interior and put in a roll cage.

[dth656]

wow, thanks for all the input guys. that black e46 looks so awesome w/ the cage going in!

i haven't seen a radical, but in our track group, i have seen a wolf, a ligier of some kind, and a few ariel atoms. they all look super fast on track!

ban25, do you mind sharing what car you are moving to?

[ban25]

Originally Posted by dth656

ban25, do you mind sharing what car you are moving to?

Just picked up a C7 Z06:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/intros/4009925-new-z06-in-san-francisco.html

[nicknaz]

$18k for a well sorted e36 m3 car seems like a smoking deal

Is that cost to convert or includes cost to buy the car too

[adc]

Won't Radicals require engine rebuilds relatively often though?

[Brainofjjj]

Whatever you do build or buy a car that fits well into a race group with NASA or scca. I've built track cars and race cars and the worst thing you can do is have some frankenstein car that doesn't fit into any ruleset. You may not want to go wheel to wheel but you will.

[cobbyy]

S2000.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

$18k for a well sorted e36 m3 car seems like a smoking deal

Is that cost to convert or includes cost to buy the car too

He had a 328i shell sitting there, but $ to convert to M3 Leroy miscalculated it seems. Looking closer to $22-$25K now. Don't think he has told my dad yet, lol!

[wakdady]

why no spec miata love?
too cheap for y'all?

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

He had a 328i shell sitting there, but $ to convert to M3 Leroy miscalculated it seems. Looking closer to $22-$25K now. Don't think he has told my dad yet, lol!

My dad's E36 is finished and sorted. Came in around the $23K mark. First full weekend for him doing W2W in it. He's getting the hang of, only a second/lap or so off my times. Way different than the Formula Ford. Says the E36 wants to be in the throttle pretty much all the time. Sounds about right.

Us playing together in Qualifying. Hot slippery track. We both agreed just to use NT01s:

[97supratt]

I have owned many of those cars listed. If you dont care about the cost of consumables go with the c5z. Easily the fastest in the bunch in stock form and modified. C5z races in st2 class and is super fast. Holds records in most tracks across the country.