New Crank Hub Solution to Market

[turn14]

I don’t really get this spline solution. How far can it rotate and bite?

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by domino_z

I'd love to see a full project thread for an install, including all the re timing tools used - would make a great opportunity for one of your blogs

In the meantime... newtis dot info

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by overlook637

Plenty of tuned cars, CS, CSL, GTS cars have put down lots of time/miles on the race track. If this was a power and/or hard shifting issue then we would see many failures on the cars that are raced.

BMW NA Field Technical department is much aware of this issue, especially with tuned cars. It was highly suggested to me by this individual 'off the record' to install an aftermarket spun hub fix especially since my F83 is tuned.

[shay2nak]

It is crazy that one would have to spend extra money for this. Even for a totally stock car, nevermind for one that is tuned. Probably the best to wait until after the warranty is up to get a tune. I'd like to get one, nothing crazy OF low torque probably the best route to minimize this failure from occurring. This reminds me a lot of the Elise/Exige cam wipe issue. No one knows who's car's intake cam will wipe causing damage to rockers, and possibly motor. Although easier to check by pulling the cam cover, than to replace the crank hub.

[overlook637]

Originally Posted by domino_z

a forum is only a small snapshot of a much larger owner pool out there

this can work both ways - you either see a small issue over hyped within an echo chamber, or you don't see all the instances of this issue

from what i understand of the underlying problem being a major design flaw, and the fact bmw have now switched to a traditional crank case cover on the B58, i'm inclined to believe the latter

Agreed.

But in this echo chamber with a large % of tuned cars and people that tend to push the cars hard; I would assume the failure rate of this group would be higher.

[Mmvic]

Just ordered one

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by unleashed

any updates on the installation?

Upgraded Stage 2 turbos are in, crank hub is next.

[overlook637]

Any thoughts given for future timing chain changes. Removal of this "lock", then reinstall of the "lock".

[sdstatestud88]

Originally Posted by overlook637

Any thoughts given for future timing chain changes. Removal of this "lock", then reinstall of the "lock".

Someone expressed concern of this causing a deformation if it were to want to spin when the spline locks.

Only way I can see to test is to force a spin with this installed and see the effects.

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by sdstatestud88

Someone expressed concern of this causing a deformation if it were to want to spin when the spline locks.

Only way I can see to test is to force a spin with this installed and see the effects.

It's not "if" the spline locks in some future state.

Looking at some of the pics posted, the splines machined into the new hub are going to imprint, deform, insert-other-descriptor-here the crank on the initial install. The intent of for this new found additive mechanical "bite" (in addition to the OE friction disc) is to resist an movement of the hub (this is the spline lock marketing rhetoric). But if for some reason the hub were to spin yeah it's probably sad panda for the crankshaft.

[sdstatestud88]

@tom @ eas any update on the Vargas spine lock kit?

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by sdstatestud88

@tom @ eas any update on the Vargas spine lock kit?

Finishing up remaining items on this project this week and will update with photos.

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Finishing up remaining items on this project this week and will update with photos.

[FSU_Logan]

Such a great idea, happy to see this. Awaiting results.

[overlook637]

Originally Posted by jww///95

It's not "if" the spline locks in some future state.

Looking at some of the pics posted, the splines machined into the new hub are going to imprint, deform, insert-other-descriptor-here the crank on the initial install. The intent of for this new found additive mechanical "bite" (in addition to the OE friction disc) is to resist an movement of the hub (this is the spline lock marketing rhetoric). But if for some reason the hub were to spin yeah it's probably sad panda for the crankshaft.

x2. I had the same thoughts. Even if the spine was straight cut, the splines would leave a impression / damage marks on the inside.

I would think that a very precision machined piece that would be frozen installed with loctite would provide for ample pressure after being properly torqued. Just me backyard mechanic opinion.

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by overlook637

x2. I had the same thoughts. Even if the spine was straight cut, the splines would leave a impression / damage marks on the inside.

I would think that a very precision machined piece that would be frozen installed with loctite would provide for ample pressure after being properly torqued. Just me backyard mechanic opinion.

And why are we concerned about this? If timing chain needs to be replaced? Any other reason?

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by Mmvic

And why are we concerned about this? If timing chain needs to be replaced? Any other reason?

The presumption is you are deforming, marring, altering, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it the snout of the crankshaft. Seems kind of like a one time "hold my beer" approach to a potential problem of the hub relative to crankshaft slippage.

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by overlook637

x2. I had the same thoughts. Even if the spine was straight cut, the splines would leave a impression / damage marks on the inside.

I would think that a very precision machined piece that would be frozen installed with loctite would provide for ample pressure after being properly torqued. Just me backyard mechanic opinion.

I like where you heads at on the treadlocker. There are some "threadless" applications which are not necessarily the intended application but seem to result well.

Loctite 272 would presumably stand up to the heat... Assuming the crankshaft operating temperature is relatively equal to the oil temp.

[moonshine89]

Originally Posted by jww///95

I like where you heads at on the treadlocker. There are some "threadless" applications which are not necessarily the intended application but seem to result well.

Loctite 272 would presumably stand up to the heat... Assuming the crankshaft operating temperature is relatively equal to the oil temp.

There are multiple reports saying the bolt was torqued to spec. Including mine. Should I believe the bmw engineer was just saying that? It would make sense and could explain the inconsistencies. Meaning if it was simply an issue of incorrectly torquing the bolt that would certainly make me feel better since it's just an assembly line error not a systemic issue.

[moonshine89]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Your BMW tech will have no idea if the bolt was torqued correctly. Unless he took it out with his fingers and if that is the case your engine would be gone due to valve/piston contact.

The crank hub bolt is a torque and stretch bolt. If you don't know, that means it is torqued to a setting then turned a further 200degrees or 210degrees (if I remember correctly)

The only real way of knowing if the bolt has come loose by even the smallest amount is by inspecting the face of the sprocket where the friction plate is placed because it will show slip marks, which can be as small as a 1-3mm.

Also, the car having the timing out by a small amount can also indicate that the bolt/friction plate has moved/slipped.

Hope that helps.

Right. I spoke with the lead engineer (not a tech) when my crank hub spun. Took lots of pictures. He inspected the bolt since he had to fix it on my car. So with that, do you think he lied to me and told me the bolt was torqued appropriately? He told me he had checked it's specs prior to removing it. Furthermore he showed me the friction washer which was completely intact (I've seen some split)

[milk242]

Correct me if I’m wrong but this solution locks the crank hub to the crank but what about the sprockets?

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by milk242

Correct me if I’m wrong but this solution locks the crank hub to the crank but what about the sprockets?

The sprocket which matters for the timing chains is incorporated into the crank hub as a single piece design. Only the oil pump drive sprocket is left as a separate component.