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      08-21-2013, 09:39 PM   #67
JEllis
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I dont think BMW would offer us a M5 manual but not a M3/4 manual. So, I fully expect to see an MT option on this car.

That being said, the fact that there are prototype M3/4s with manuals, proves little. I read an article that Porsche built both manual 991 GT3 prototypes as well as PDK 991 GT3 prototypes and in the end decided to only produce the PDK option. Something to think about.

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      08-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM View Post
i swear america is the only place left in the world where MT is something to get excited about...

it's a chore, plain and simple..

everywhere bar the USA a MT is just associated with low-end, low-spec cars that the original owner was too tight to check the an AT box on

it's now just turning into a cultural thing, and US is the last bastion where it's 'cool' to own a manual... it's distinctly uncool round my neck of the woods that's for sure!
Hold on, one of the most respected enthusiast car mag's in the world, EVO, comes from the UK, and they are staunch advocates of MT...you saying they aren't representative of UK enthusiasts?
NZ has plenty of MT fans too....stop your rampant anti-america generalisations
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      08-21-2013, 09:51 PM   #69
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I'm curious about "2VF ADAPTIVE M SUSPENSION".
Could it be ARS which is sometimes called adaptive suspension by BMW or is it EDC?

Hopefully it's EDC which would indicate that we can still get a passive suspension with that perfectly M tuned balance of springs and dampers only possible with passive supension.
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      08-21-2013, 10:08 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGM View Post
i swear america is the only place left in the world where MT is something to get excited about...

it's a chore, plain and simple..

everywhere bar the USA a MT is just associated with low-end, low-spec cars that the original owner was too tight to check the an AT box on

it's now just turning into a cultural thing, and US is the last bastion where it's 'cool' to own a manual... it's distinctly uncool round my neck of the woods that's for sure!
Wow. In my neck of the woods when I drive my M3 no one asks is it "DCT or Manual?" I suspect if i was asked no one would care what type of gearbox the car was equipped with. They just say "cool car", or "nice car", or "is that exhaust stock?"

I can assure you that the gearbox of your car is not what dictates cool vs uncool status in the States.
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      08-21-2013, 10:24 PM   #71
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Exhaust sound

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Originally Posted by IancoleTX View Post
Still sounds pretty terrible though lol
Stock E46 & E92 M3s both did not sound great. Need to keep Eisenmann and others is business!
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      08-21-2013, 10:33 PM   #72
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Any indication on whether the manual M cars will have rev matching capabilities? Launch control?
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      08-21-2013, 10:34 PM   #73
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DCT vs manual, again

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I guess I can never resist this topic...
  1. A DCT is not an automatic, it is automatable.
  2. The design, engineering, construction and most importantly the FEEL of the DCT is like a manual. I think most (or certainly at least many) who criticize DCT have not driven an M3 through the gears in S5 mode shifting at redline.
  3. When you have the DCT in manual mode, it simply is not an automatic, you choose every single shift up and down, except those downshifts while slowing that prevent an engine stall.
  4. DCT in manual mode is very involving and satisfying. You still shift, just on the steering wheel rather than on the tranny tunnel. Oh wait, you can do that too. Who cares about the clutch pedal...
  5. I seriously applaud Porsche for their decision for PDK (dual clutch) only for the hardcore GT3. Its the best choice by far because of it performance while allowing full manual control over shifting. I wish BMW had the balls to do that same. Less expensive DCTs would be one result.
  6. Shifting a traditional manual is clearly not the only way to be involved with and in touch with ones driving. Do you think F1 folks miss the clutch pedal or need to be "more involved"... There is plenty left to do in high performance driving other than worry about the clutch pedal.
I'll admit I don't have much DCT experience, but for a daily driver, unless you are in an extremely congested area, the manual seems to give much more control in traffic and low speed situations, allowing you to feather the power as needed (and blip the throttle as needed). No doubt the DCT will outperform most with manuals on the track.
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      08-21-2013, 10:39 PM   #74
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6MT no better way to be
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      08-21-2013, 10:40 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I'm curious about "2VF ADAPTIVE M SUSPENSION".
Could it be ARS which is sometimes called adaptive suspension by BMW or is it EDC?

Hopefully it's EDC which would indicate that we can still get a passive suspension with that perfectly M tuned balance of springs and dampers only possible with passive supension.
Just because apadtive suspension appears on the list and has an ordering code does not mean it will truly be optional with passive suspension as an alternate choice. Lots of standard equipment has codes because there may be some configuration somewhere for some application that does not get that feature so it needs to be identifiable. For example, even if just some obscure fleet-only 3 Series configuration does not get, say, a compass then that will technically be optional equipment from the point of view of the assembly line. This, even though every consumer model (especially in the US where low end models are not offered) gets that functionality.
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      08-21-2013, 10:49 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I'll admit I don't have much DCT experience, but for a daily driver, unless you are in an extremely congested area, the manual seems to give much more control in traffic and low speed situations, allowing you to feather the power as needed (and blip the throttle as needed). No doubt the DCT will outperform most with manuals on the track.
Even though most people give a strike against the MT in precisely these types of situations (heavy traffic), I see where you are coming from.

That being said, DCT has been brilliant for me in traffic. I love being able to toggle between 1st and 2nd at engine idle speed. No need to worry about the clutch or accelerator. Notably, the DSG in our Jetta SW is not programmed to allow second gear at idle (nor second gear starts from a stand still) and I really miss that feature when driving that car in those situations.
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      08-21-2013, 10:50 PM   #77
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I don't think there was any question BMW was not to offer the 6mt. I believe the 2020 M4 will in fact offer a manual as well...
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      08-21-2013, 11:05 PM   #78
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The day BMW stops offering manual, is the day I switch my loyalty to Porsche.
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      08-21-2013, 11:08 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWBoss View Post
The day BMW stops offering manual, is the day I switch my loyalty to Porsche.
Except that Porsche took the manual away from the GT3 and the manual tranny in the 991 is an afterthought.
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      08-21-2013, 11:10 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The English Guy View Post
We won't miss manual M's.........discuss

Debate: Why the ultimate driving machine is actually improved and defined by paddle shifted gearboxes

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=28276
Just an article I saw and thought was relevant to this thread, not my opinion
Meh. When concerned with emotional satisfaction, technical superiority is meaningless. The article readily admits that.
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      08-21-2013, 11:12 PM   #81
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What is going on with those headlights on the white one?

Great looking car. I'd drive it :-)
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      08-21-2013, 11:17 PM   #82
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I had a DCT E92 M3 and I used to pretend it was fine, and I was kidding myself. It's a bit pointless to drive the thing in manual mode around town. It's a good match for the high precision character of the M3, but it dulls the experience. A manual is a good way to have some fun driving on the streets.

The more I see, hear, and learn about the new M3/M4 the less I'm excited about these cars. The M3 in the video above sounds like shit compared to the V8 M3.
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      08-21-2013, 11:18 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
Except that Porsche took the manual away from the GT3 and the manual tranny in the 991 is an afterthought.
Please! Don't confuse him with facts! There could never be a car superior to his.
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      08-21-2013, 11:20 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Stock E46 & E92 M3s both did not sound great. Need to keep Eisenmann and others is business!
The E90 & E92 M3 sound great with stock exhaust, just too quiet.
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      08-21-2013, 11:21 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Meh. When concerned with emotional satisfaction, technical superiority is meaningless. The article readily admits that.
Very, very well said. The epitome of technical superiority is a car that drives itself and uses sensors and GPS to calculate perfect gears, speed, entry and exit angles, I.e racing lines etc. How fun is that compared to a spirited old fashioned carting race with zero computing?

Tech. Has made our driving a lot safer, faster and comfortable, no doubt but I'm not sure it has done one iota to make it more fun.

Last edited by solstice; 08-21-2013 at 11:29 PM..
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      08-21-2013, 11:22 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NELSON.MLGB View Post
Exactly, manual is gonna be out of stage soon, for those who claim that manual has more fun have never tried a DCT. DCT gives you different combinations of shifting. DCT FOR LIFE!
No, some of us have. We're all aware of the technical merits of the DCT.

The fact remains; the DCT does not have a third pedal or a shift lever. Those of us that buy an MT don't care if it's slower, we don't care about the DCT shift modes or it's configuration. It's just boring.

Now, if I'm driving a race car, I'll take a DCT or a doggless sequential over a clutched, dogged manual any day. Let it be known that BMW does not make a single, regular production race car. There is no GT3 equivalent coming out of Munich, on the regular. If there was, DCT over MT, no question.
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      08-21-2013, 11:26 PM   #87
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Even if the rumor that DCT (still a slushbox automatic) will come to the US and not the manual is false, I'm officially done with BMW. I waited for the 4 series...looks ugly and the performance is really nothing great. Lot of other cars in that category/price range that have become far better driving machines and more attractive/aggressive. M4 without manual is not an M. BMW has officially sold out. Good riddance. They are getting uglier and uglier, more overpriced, and less engaging.
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      08-21-2013, 11:29 PM   #88
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I was told the M3/4 will definitely have three turbos... Just couldn't get confirm on if its V6 or electric/hybrid third turbo
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