Why the sky is still not falling (A Compilation of F8X comparisons) - Updated 9/17

[E90beemerfan]

When comparing the M3/M4 to the competition, I think it is important to clarify which cars are competing in the same segment. None of the Porsche alternatives are competing in the same segment as the M3/M4. It is of course fun making comparison with sport cars, but the M3/M4 will never compete on the same level. The extra space and comfort will always be a drag for the M3/M4. Still it's doing quite well.

The M3/M4 is a DD car that can be taken to the track and be driven almost like a sports car. And as a DD you will have the comfort and space like a normal car and still have fun on twisty roads pushing the car more than you would dear in a normal sedan/coupe.

In this category you will find the C63 AMG, RS5 and RC F. At the moment (as far as I'm conserned) it is the C63 that comes closest to the M3/M4. The question is, will the C63 feel as sportive and nimble as the M3/M4? Will you get the same "race car feel" in the C63? Is the rigidity of the chassis on the same level as the Bimmer? I cannot tell since I've never driven neither of them, but the C63 is heavier than the M3/M4. The TTV8 in the Merc is for sure a fantastic engine, but the engine alone does not make it a better car than the comparable BMW.

My take is to listen less to the reviews, but rather test drive the cars before making a decision. For some, even the RS5 will be a more desirable car, because of the AWD, than either the Merc or the BMW. For me, AWD is not even an option, because it just is not as fun to drive as a RWD car. I really hope BMW will never turn all their M-cars into AWD! Having fun in a car is not all about speed.

Then, even if the C63 may be close to the M3/M4 as a drivers car, you have to live with the looks of the car Personally I don't like the looks of the new C-class. It is trying too hard in the front and the back belongs to a S-class. BMW is far ahead in the design department!

In any case, competition is a must to move forward and BMW is not perfect in any sense. I'm therefore happy to see that other car manufacturers are closing the gap!

[Damasconian]

myzmak - Would this count as a "review"?

Very positive either way.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

myzmak - Would this count as a "review"?
Very positive either way.

I'm not totally sure what to call that......a little strange.

Anyway, funny and thanks for sharing man.

[myzmak]

Updated with that EVO compare video released today.

....strange how few comparisons have come out so far with the C63 (S or plain Jane).

The car has been out for several weeks, lots of people have had time to get their mitts on one....yet the comparos are slow to come.

Maybe I am just too eager, but I would have thought there would be a few more by now beyond the 2 or 3 .....

[Damasconian]

The new Top Gear host has some interesting things to say about the M4:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/even...on-Martin.html

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

The new Top Gear host has some interesting things to say about the M4:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/even...on-Martin.html

Maybe he'll get to do a comparison with the C63?

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Updated with that EVO compare video released today.

....strange how few comparisons have come out so far with the C63 (S or plain Jane).

The car has been out for several weeks, lots of people have had time to get their mitts on one....yet the comparos are slow to come.

Maybe I am just too eager, but I would have thought there would be a few more by now beyond the 2 or 3 .....

IMHO, merc is not giving cars out to be tested when it is first released because they are concerned about the results affecting sales.

It is not a surprise considering the car may not be the clear winner they want it to be.

I also think that they read the reviews of the RC-F and did not want the same thing to happen to them.

I probably would be doing exactly what they are doing if I ran the marketing dept.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

IMHO, merc is not giving cars out to be tested when it is first released because they are concerned about the results affecting sales.

It is not a surprise considering the car may not be the clear winner they want it to be.

I also think that they read the reviews of the RC-F and did not want the same thing to happen to them.

I probably would be doing exactly what they are doing if I ran the marketing dept.

Yeah, could be.

But a lot of the early reviews of the C63 (english press ones, anyway) had some passing comments about how this car was better than M3/M4, etc. Was that all just premature praise? I can't imagine it is.

My guess is head to head these two are as close as they've ever been with some who will like the Benz and some the Bimmer. I don't see the C63 going down in RC-F like flames (rewatched that Chris Harris review recently. God almighty is he blunt....)

[DrtyJrze]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yeah, could be.

But a lot of the early reviews of the C63 (english press ones, anyway) had some passing comments about how this car was better than M3/M4, etc. Was that all just premature praise? I can't imagine it is.

My guess is head to head these two are as close as they've ever been with some who will like the Benz and some the Bimmer. I don't see the C63 going down in RC-F like flames (rewatched that Chris Harris review recently. God almighty is he blunt....)

Idk. EVO used a C63s and it clearly lost to the M. Price wise the M should really have been compared to the C63, but that seems like it would have been a massacre, which would have left MB buyers with only the "sound of the engine" to brag about and nothing else (maybe interior).

Similar to RCF owners.

[Dalko43]

Why the hell was this thread even created?

And why should it matter that the BMW M4 "beat" something like the RC-F in multiple reviews? Everyone acknowledges the M4 is the better car, so why does the # of reviews indicating as such mean anything.....This all seems redundant, myopic and self-serving.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

Why the hell was this thread even created?

And why should it matter that the BMW M4 "beat" something like the RC-F in multiple reviews? Everyone acknowledges the M4 is the better car, so why does the # of reviews indicating as such mean anything.....This all seems redundant, myopic and self-serving.

I guess you could read the original post and probably answer, well, all of your questions there.

But, really, thanks for the contribution anyway.

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I guess you could read the original post and probably answer, well, all of your questions there.

But, really, thanks for the contribution anyway.

I did read it. That's why I asked those questions, which were more rhetorical than anything else...but thanks for your input.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

I did read it. That's why I asked those questions, which were more rhetorical than anything else...but thanks for your input.

So delighted to note that you must have read this:

(5) Before you say anything: I am not suggesting these comparisons actually mean much, if anything at all. (this was done on a slow day for fun). The only comparison that really matters to me is my own. BUT….I thought it might be something fun to do/look at all at once. So before you tell me how you don't like me doing this at all, stop, go get a drink, talk to your wife/girlfriend/children/mother/dog and then see if you still care enough to complain that I did this. Thanks

....but your wife/girlfriend/children/mother/dog/bottle-of-booze didn't dissuade you so 'post' you did....

Beyond that, frankly your first post partly explains why I created the thread. The 'common wisdom' that everyone thinks X or Y can become an institutional belief, but its often wrong. In fact, the link right at the start of the original post here was to a long post I created to challenge the 'common wisdom' that 'everyone thought the E9X was never criticized or beaten. Neither was true, as that first compilation showed (see here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=989324)

So, mostly just for interest, I thought I would keep a compilation to document the historical record on the F8X - so that 5 years from now when someone says "everyone hated it / it always lost" or "it always won" we'd know. In other words, it is just to document the historical record in one place, rather than leaving it subject to the whims of collected wisdom, nostalgia and problematic memories.

(For instance, even the RC-F - at least one review gave it a win, so you'd be losing already on that score)

If you don't care about the history, that's cool, but I guess you can move along rather than posting on this thread - wouldn't that be the easier option that stays true to an apathetic ethos?

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by myzmak

So delighted to note that you must have read this:



....but your wife/girlfriend/children/mother/dog/bottle-of-booze didn't dissuade you so 'post' you did....

Beyond that, frankly your first post partly explains why I created the thread. The 'common wisdom' that everyone thinks X or Y can become an institutional belief, but its often wrong. In fact, the link right at the start of the original post here was to a long post I created to challenge the 'common wisdom' that 'everyone thought the E9X was never criticized or beaten. Neither was true, as that first compilation showed (see here: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=989324)

So, mostly just for interest, I thought I would keep a compilation to document the historical record on the F8X - so that 5 years from now when someone says "everyone hated it / it always lost" or "it always won" we'd know. In other words, it is just to document the historical record in one place, rather than leaving it subject to the whims of collected wisdom, nostalgia and problematic memories.

(For instance, even the RC-F - at least one review gave it a win, so you'd be losing already on that score)

If you don't care about the history, that's cool, but I guess you can move along rather than posting on this thread - wouldn't that be the easier option that stays true to an apathetic ethos?

So essentially the reviews don't mean much, and by extension this thread doesn't mean much....thank you for answering my original question.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

So essentially the reviews don't mean much, and by extension this thread doesn't mean much....thank you for answering my original question.

I'll go on record as saying that I appreciate the OP's efforts to make this thread and to put things into context. These compilations of reviews may not "mean much" as to which particular car any particular person purchases, but they are still useful to put into perspective how the automotive press collectively sees the objective/subjective strenghts and weaknesses for each car, which in turn may help someone who is "on the fence" make a final decision.

I think I speak for the majority of those on this forum, particularly given the large number of people who have responded...

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

I'll go on record as saying that I appreciate the OP's efforts to make this thread and to put things into context. These compilations of reviews may not "mean much" as to which particular car any particular person purchases, but they are still useful to put into perspective how the automotive press collectively sees the objective/subjective strenghts and weaknesses for each car, which in turn may help someone who is "on the fence" make a final decision.

I think I speak for the majority of those on this forum, particularly given the large number of people who have responded...

Yep. +1.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Dalko43

So essentially the reviews don't mean much, and by extension this thread doesn't mean much....thank you for answering my original question.

And yet you keep posting on it. What does one make of someone who responds to something that he says doesn't matter?

Anyway, I guess you could read all the words in my response to your previous post. The thread serves a purpose, just not the purpose you are looking for or talking about. So, again, feel free to keep on shufflin' along man. Won't hurt my feelings none if you pass us by.

[Damasconian]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Yeah, could be.

But a lot of the early reviews of the C63 (english press ones, anyway) had some passing comments about how this car was better than M3/M4, etc. Was that all just premature praise? I can't imagine it is.

My guess is head to head these two are as close as they've ever been with some who will like the Benz and some the Bimmer. I don't see the C63 going down in RC-F like flames (rewatched that Chris Harris review recently. God almighty is he blunt....)

The RCF is arguably one of his most negative reviews, and I've seen most of them. Almost like Lexus did something to personally offend him. I continue to like the RCF and am glad they are around. His most recent BMW 320D review was fantastic.

[myzmak]

updated with the Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Whatcar, etc comparisons with C63S.

Other than MT, the M3 seems to be doing just fine, losing the odd test, but winning most (as some of us predicted a loooooong time ago)....

[Damasconian]

Originally Posted by myzmak

updated with the Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Whatcar, etc comparisons with C63S.

Other than MT, the M3 seems to be doing just fine, losing the odd test, but winning most (as some of us predicted a loooooong time ago)....

I was wondering when you were going to update this thread, lots of reviews have popped up since you first ran it. It's been one of the best threads on this forum and we all thank you for the time put in.

When will you be down in Texas next? Hopefully not until late September at the earliest.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

I was wondering when you were going to update this thread, lots of reviews have popped up since you first ran it. It's been one of the best threads on this forum and we all thank you for the time put in.

When will you be down in Texas next? Hopefully not until late September at the earliest.

I usually update that main list as soon as reviews are posted (though I don't always advertise I have done so, like I did the other day)

and thanks - I find it a useful resource when looking at these things (as the title suggests, the sky sure isn't falling...)

and I may be in Plano area in late September.....

[Arcades]

Iuno if you want to myzmak but you can put that pos "Drag" Race Auto Express just did.

What a huge surprise another UK based loss.