Lexus GSF?

[mgcyr]

I'm trying to think outside the box. Thoughts?

(I'll go hide behind a rock).

[Need4spd28]

I looked at one right before I got my M3 last month. I didn't drive one, but it seemed like a pretty cool car. Two main problems as I see it:

1) The styling probably won't be for everyone (although I liked it)
2) They're slow (relatively speaking)

I would think it's a worthy competitor for anyone who doesn't prioritize performance.

[bb1857]

The GSF is a boat that is more in competition with the M5 but even that is like bringing a plastic spoon to a desert war.

[damnitBobby]

I think it's a fantastic car for the money. Sure it's not as fast as the F8x but that isn't everyone's priority. Its definitely quick enough and the one I rode in was certainly smoother and quieter compared to the '15 M4 my cousin has. The V8 sounds bliss from the inside. From the outside it sounds rather quiet but I'm sure aftermarket can fix that. Overall, the car just feels special.

The front grill can be dominating though. So much that it was a deal breaker for me. Sucks because every other aspect of the exterior looks great in my opinion.

I think you have to ask yourself what's more important to you.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Same old recycled V8, not enough torque, too big.

If you want a large sedan, get something with a torquey V8TT. Audi S6 starts $16k less.

[Acturater]

I might cross shop the Lexus with a 550i but probably not with an M3 or M5. I just feel they are targeting very different preferences. The Lexus is much softer, and that's a really good thing for many (most?) people. Not for me though.

[XT6Wagon]

Its bad, and you should feel bad

[DS_BMW]

I would go with a CTS V in that segment.

[dkhm3]

try the autobox, i heard it is shit slow, similar to my wife's gs350. slowest manual shifting autobox i have ever driven in the last 3 years. it is hard to accept for a performance car.

[ASAP]

It doesnt compete with an M3 because its too big and doesnt handle as well, doesnt compete with an M5, because its far too slow... Make the decision yourself...

[mkoesel]

If you are cross shopping the M3 with the BMW 550i, Audi S6, and Infiniti Q70 5.6, by all means include the Lexus GS-F too, sure. But if you are looking at cars in this class instead of those in the M3's class (Mercedes-AMG C63, Cadilac ATS-V, Alfa Romeo Giulia) as alternatives, you should carefully consider the trade-offs and decide if you are willing to accept them.

[ixse]

Toyota is currently being handled by buncha accountants. Their perf range is total disaster, including rcf, gsf. Putting frankenstein chassis just to save cost of RnD, tranny is nothing special. They are all far too heavy and slow as result. Just look at discounts avail on rcf..

[deemo319]

The "Lexus" GS F is a car that is intended to compete with the F10 M5, not a 3 Series.

But one should look at it objectively, if possible within this forum.

Toyota wants the "Lexus F" not to compete with BMW M, but just to be in the conversation and steal a few sales.


Why do I say that? Read what others have said about its performance, weight and styling which is subjective.

If Toyota was dead serious about "Lexus F" they wouldn't have started with the modular Toyota Avalon chassis and started with something better.

Engine wise Toyota touts the horsepower when it was coming out, but Toyota doesn't want to spend any money on "Lexus" because that will chew into profit.

That's why the engine was a carryover from the first generation of the slow-selling IS F.

Toyota has a reactionary business model and doesn't use "Lexus" as a brand for innovation because there is none.

With the tight restrictions due CAFE BMW returned to their roots with the S55 which is obviously an inline 6 but with turbos.

Toyota carried over a big, heavy 5.0 V8 when the Germans (BMW & Mercedes-Benz) moved to smaller displacement yet very powerful and engines with lots of torque.

The E90/E92/E93 M3's were the last of their kind in a 3 Series. But Toyota really didn't know BMW was going back to a 6-cylinder engine.

Basically Toyota has to watch and wait to see what BMW will do since everything below an Toyota "Lexus LS" is to "compete"with BMW.

They watch what Daimler does with the S-Class because that's what they want the ancient LS to be but don't put any money towards it development.

Toyota has TMG (Toyota Motor Group) in Germany which is the leftover operations and engineers from their defunct and unsuccessful foray into F1.

These guys are very good at what they do but they don't use them. Toyota even considered naming their performance cars with TMG but decided it was to close to AMG which it is.

Toyota tries but not very hard. "Lexus" is just a brand, nothing less and nothing more.

"Lexus" doesn't build cars and has no board of directors, employees, nothing. It has more successful than they imagined and it is all gravy.

"What about the LF A?" Well, that was actually built within the LF A room in Toyota City by Toyota employees because there are zero "Lexus" employees. And putting a patch on an guy in white lab coat for publicity pictures doesn't make "Lexus real.

It is basically the automotive equivalent of a $3.00 bill, it doesn't exist.

The frustrating part about the brand on my part is Toyota has been very successful in regards to "Lexus" is they control the narrative.

It's completely BS. Toyota, Honda and Nissan with their supposed upscale brands is use the term "luxury" to their advantage to convince people that these car are on the level with BMW and Mercedes-Benz when in reality they dominate the Commodity Luxury market with their plebeian and downmarket underpinnings.

They way I explain it is, you can buy more or less of something but you cannot buy more for less.

Example, the current RS F chassis is comprised of three different sections of two different generations of a Toyota Avalon chassis, which is why they ended up with 4,800lb (+/-) two door car.

People usually don't know that "F" stands for Mount Fuji in Japan.

But we all know that they (Toyota) wanted a single letter "F" that would stand for their "performance" brand which is absolutely hilarious to me.

It is not and will never be M. A half-assed attempt to copy a BMW M.

[Ultimate Driving Giraffe]

I believe that the Lexus GS is based on the Toyota "N" chassis -- which is the rear wheel drive chassis originally developed for the Toyota Crown and found its way into the higher end Lexus (including the big LS). The Avalon is basically a stretch front wheel drive Camry, based on the Toyota "K" chassis, which also underpins the Lexus ES and things like the Highlander and Sienna minivans.

Unlike a lot of pundits, I like the way the Lexus GS looks, and I like that the GS-F is trying to be something different. It is not really a track car (ad photos and silly bucket seats notwithstanding); it is a really fast, sleek, large sedan with impeccable build quality, which, despite its "old" motor, manages to weigh 300 pounds less than a BMW M5 or 550i. I like the interior, because (unlike current Infinitis and Acuras) it still captures that high-end Japanese feel and quality very well. IMO, some things are a little weird -- especially when seen in photos -- but when seen in person, it *just* works.

I like the GS-F, but it is a lot different from something like an M3, which is a relatively compact really high performance sports car substitute. I think the GS-F is also somewhat different from an M5 (or CTS-V), which is practically steroidal in power and size. I see the Lexus GS-F as more an Audi S6 competitor.

[yaymitch]

Here you go: http://www.caradvice.com.au/469389/b...-s-comparison/

[mrmoua2u]

GSF= "G"o "S"low "F"ail

[RobbyMack]

If you're looking for an engine that will probably keep ticking well beyond 250k with just minor work then the GSF is for you. The styling is polarizing but I really do like how the GS, in general, drives (more E60 than F10). I also recall reading there were only a few hundred examples of the GSF heading to the US so there could be some exclusivity if that matters at all. I honestly did give it a long look when I was trying to convince myself I didn't "need" an M as a daily and would be just as happy in a 550.

[Ian1973]

Wish they would make the ISF again. But I think the engine is getting too long in the tooth. It's time to move on to FI to keep up with the field. And also stop being so stubborn and begin looking into weight savings measures on all their cars.

[minn19]

It is a big, sort of quick comfy sedan. If that is what you want, then it will do it reliably for years. But, it is nowhere in the league of M cars or their direct competitors in terms of performance or driving dynamics.

[Arcades]

Honestly I don't mind the GSF. I know reviewers in general gets annoyed with Lexus Sport Cars because they are heavy etc etc but honestly, in everyone situation unless you go track the car you probably won't notice it is slow.

I mean honestly, just because GSF lags behind it's competitors but ask yourself, do you push the car to the absolute limits? Most everyone would tell you it doesn't matter.

You just have to ask yourself, do you want a more comfy car that is sporty? or a more sporty but not as comfy car.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by deemo319

The "Lexus" GS F is a car that is intended to compete with the F10 M5, not a 3 Series.

But one should look at it objectively, if possible within this forum.

Toyota wants the "Lexus F" not to compete with BMW M, but just to be in the conversation and steal a few sales.


Why do I say that? Read what others have said about its performance, weight and styling which is subjective.

If Toyota was dead serious about "Lexus F" they wouldn't have started with the modular Toyota Avalon chassis and started with something better.

Engine wise Toyota touts the horsepower when it was coming out, but Toyota doesn't want to spend any money on "Lexus" because that will chew into profit.

That's why the engine was a carryover from the first generation of the slow-selling IS F.

Toyota has a reactionary business model and doesn't use "Lexus" as a brand for innovation because there is none.

With the tight restrictions due CAFE BMW returned to their roots with the S55 which is obviously an inline 6 but with turbos.

Toyota carried over a big, heavy 5.0 V8 when the Germans (BMW & Mercedes-Benz) moved to smaller displacement yet very powerful and engines with lots of torque.

The E90/E92/E93 M3's were the last of their kind in a 3 Series. But Toyota really didn't know BMW was going back to a 6-cylinder engine.

Basically Toyota has to watch and wait to see what BMW will do since everything below an Toyota "Lexus LS" is to "compete"with BMW.

They watch what Daimler does with the S-Class because that's what they want the ancient LS to be but don't put any money towards it development.

Toyota has TMG (Toyota Motor Group) in Germany which is the leftover operations and engineers from their defunct and unsuccessful foray into F1.

These guys are very good at what they do but they don't use them. Toyota even considered naming their performance cars with TMG but decided it was to close to AMG which it is.

Toyota tries but not very hard. "Lexus" is just a brand, nothing less and nothing more.

"Lexus" doesn't build cars and has no board of directors, employees, nothing. It has more successful than they imagined and it is all gravy.

"What about the LF A?" Well, that was actually built within the LF A room in Toyota City by Toyota employees because there are zero "Lexus" employees. And putting a patch on an guy in white lab coat for publicity pictures doesn't make "Lexus real.

It is basically the automotive equivalent of a $3.00 bill, it doesn't exist.

The frustrating part about the brand on my part is Toyota has been very successful in regards to "Lexus" is they control the narrative.

It's completely BS. Toyota, Honda and Nissan with their supposed upscale brands is use the term "luxury" to their advantage to convince people that these car are on the level with BMW and Mercedes-Benz when in reality they dominate the Commodity Luxury market with their plebeian and downmarket underpinnings.

They way I explain it is, you can buy more or less of something but you cannot buy more for less.

Example, the current RS F chassis is comprised of three different sections of two different generations of a Toyota Avalon chassis, which is why they ended up with 4,800lb (+/-) two door car.

People usually don't know that "F" stands for Mount Fuji in Japan.

But we all know that they (Toyota) wanted a single letter "F" that would stand for their "performance" brand which is absolutely hilarious to me.

It is not and will never be M. A half-assed attempt to copy a BMW M.

Wow, I don't like driving Toyotas, but what a load of rubbish. The claim that "Toyota has to watch and wait to see what BMW will do" is absurdity even by the wide stretch of someone's hateful imagination.

Lexus is separate division and the luxury brand of Toyota. Many of the world's top corporations are founded and grew through branding, nothing wrong with that. If Lexus is fake like $3 bill, then Cadillac, Buick and other GM divisions are also $3 bills. How do you define what's real? If Cadillac divests from GM or Audi divests from VW, do they suddenly become more real? That's rubbish.

And the "F" doesn't refer to Mount Fuji, it refers to Fuji Speedway, owned by Toyota where they test their cars. The speedway is probably named Fuji because the racetrack sits near the mountain but to say therefore the "F" stands for Mount Fuji, is patently false and unadulterated rubbish.

I can continue but don't want to spend any more time dissecting rubbish.

[WestBankM4]