340i with mods - how close to M3 performance?

[M3lbournE92]

As a current f80 comp owner and past e92 owner id like to put my $.02 in this thread. I can't talk for the new f30's since I've never driven one past 80 mph, but when I had my 335i (e92 n54 jb4) I maxed it out a couple of times to 140+ and thought the car felt great. It was well damped I wasn't scared to push it at those speeds. After my lease was up i picked up a 2013 e92 m3 and the car from the start felt nothing like my e92. The suspension, while stiffer, felt more stable on bumpy roads and I didn't feel such a jarring experience as I felt in my 335i. At 1200 miles I got test pipes and a bpm tune. It felt like a true race car with it's throttle response and exhaust note paired with an 8300 redline. Accelerating to higher speeds the car felt like a dream. Driving at 150mph felt like 100mph in the 335i. My current f80 feels the same way as my e92 m3 did. Going 160mph is a joke. You reach those speeds effortlessly and I think that's the whole difference between the 340i vs M3 debate. The m3's performance comes effortlessly compared to its 3 series counterpart. Yes you can make a 340i as fast as an m3, but then your missing the point of the m3. The suspension is damped for high speed maneuvers, the transmission (dct) is more for track use than the zf8. The engine has so many fans blowing that the oil barely goes over 230 degrees on sportplus in full summer heat 20 minute sessions on circuit. If your looking for a more serious car then the f80 is your poison. If you want a more subtle ride with a great engine and quick speed then you get the 340i.

[mtr3s]

Dang this thread is still running! Normally if you have to ask, then get the M3. If you are ok with having a 340i, there is nothing wrong with that car and it will be cheaper.

[BMWILUVU]

As I said before, obviously there is a difference with upgraded parts with the m3 built for tracking but the 340i properly optioned more than holds it own on the track. Sure the M3 has better overall tracking suspension but power-wise I am tuned pushing the torque and hp to near M3 levels and most tracks will not give you a straightaway long enough to hit 160 anyway so it will not be a world of difference as I strongly defended days ago. Enjoy your cars.

[SeatownF90]

Lol gotta get the last post in there huh. ///M all the way and never look back.

[chromatic]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

As I said before, obviously there is a difference with upgraded parts with the m3 built for tracking but the 340i properly optioned more than holds it own on the track. Sure the M3 has better overall tracking suspension but power-wise I am tuned pushing the torque and hp to near M3 levels and most tracks will not give you a straightaway long enough to hit 160 anyway so it will not be a world of difference as I strongly defended days ago. Enjoy your cars.

Returned my DINAN stage 2 335i last week and picked up an f80 m3. F80 m3 is a complete different animal man. It is a proper ///M car period. I spent all that money with mods, etc on my 335i thinking I will reach that level but its not even close. Again, my intent is not to bash 340i or anything like that. Its a great cat for what it does but its just not an M.

[M3lbournE92]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

As I said before, obviously there is a difference with upgraded parts with the m3 built for tracking but the 340i properly optioned more than holds it own on the track. Sure the M3 has better overall tracking suspension but power-wise I am tuned pushing the torque and hp to near M3 levels and most tracks will not give you a straightaway long enough to hit 160 anyway so it will not be a world of difference as I strongly defended days ago. Enjoy your cars.

There's no doubt you can keep up with an f80 m3 on track, but for how long? Let's say both cars are stock besides a tune in the 340i as you say. With smaller tires and a suspension set more towards comfort, the effect of wear and tear on the 340i is more prevalent. On top of that the 340i doesn't have the cooling necessary to support running a tune on multiple laps (in summer heat). Let's say you and a similarly experienced driver go out for a 20 minute session, most likely the m3 will be pulling away slowly since the 340i isn't designed for long track use. Sure you can clock a fast lap or two in the 340, but after a full track day the f80 wouldn't even break a sweat

[neilum]

Just want to add I hit up the 1/4 mile track last night and after 6 passes back to back all within 15 minutes (very low attendance due to chance of rain) the intercooler was cool to the touch, and the oil temps were 192 lol. No spiking IAT's, oil temps or any of that crap, it can basically do it all day.

It really is an amazing machine and an example of why the M3 is in a different league in terms of usable performance.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by M3lbournE92

There's no doubt you can keep up with an f80 m3 on track, but for how long? Let's say both cars are stock besides a tune in the 340i as you say. With smaller tires and a suspension set more towards comfort, the effect of wear and tear on the 340i is more prevalent. On top of that the 340i doesn't have the cooling necessary to support running a tune on multiple laps (in summer heat). Let's say you and a similarly experienced driver go out for a 20 minute session, most likely the m3 will be pulling away slowly since the 340i isn't designed for long track use. Sure you can clock a fast lap or two in the 340, but after a full track day the f80 wouldn't even break a sweat

Of course. No argument there.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by chromatic

Returned my DINAN stage 2 335i last week and picked up an f80 m3. F80 m3 is a complete different animal man. It is a proper ///M car period. I spent all that money with mods, etc on my 335i thinking I will reach that level but its not even close. Again, my intent is not to bash 340i or anything like that. Its a great cat for what it does but its just not an M.

Congrats on the new M3! I bought mine without even a test drive and coming from a 340i it was immediately apparent that I made the right choice with the upgrade.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Aight, I thought I'd avoid this convo again, but want to stop people - like me - from making a mistake.

Back story, long time BMW guy, went from a 335i daily with a race/frankencar - E36+S50+CO's+cage+fire system+et al - to a E90 M3.

E90 was stout, but also had 65K miles, and after 3 events at COTA started to get a ton lifter rattle and smoke out of the exhaust on cold start.

Given my wife hated the M3, I thought I'd try a 340i a a stop-gap, it was still fast and much softer sprung. BIG MISTAKE.

First event at COTA on the 340i, it was immediately obvious that it's no M-car. Pushed like crap - even running a square set up at 255 on all for corners - simply didn't like to turn in...period.

Net is, I ended up eating about 6K in cash to get into the F80 ZCP. It hurt, but man, I'm not looking back. Happy as you could be now!

[chromatic]

Originally Posted by jmg

Congrats on the new M3! I bought mine without even a test drive and coming from a 340i it was immediately apparent that I made the right choice with the upgrade.

Thank you very much! Yesterday i took her out for a spin as i got my temporary tags and man.. this thing flies. The only thing i found a little different/Annoying is DCT is kind of jerky in low revs but i think its just about getting used to it.

if it really bothers me i will get the GTS DCT coding and call it a day. Other than that its a monster of a car. Just Love it!!!

[F83]

Originally Posted by mtr3s

Dang this thread is still running! Normally if you have to ask, then get the M3. If you are ok with having a 340i, there is nothing wrong with that car and it will be cheaper.

Exactly. 340i is fast, fairly nimble and softer/quieter.

M3/4 is faster, tighter, louder and rougher.

/thread

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

Aight, I thought I'd avoid this convo again, but want to stop people - like me - from making a mistake.

Back story, long time BMW guy, went from a 335i daily with a race/frankencar - E36+S50+CO's+cage+fire system+et al - to a E90 M3.

E90 was stout, but also had 65K miles, and after 3 events at COTA started to get a ton lifter rattle and smoke out of the exhaust on cold start.

Given my wife hated the M3, I thought I'd try a 340i a a stop-gap, it was still fast and much softer sprung. BIG MISTAKE.

First event at COTA on the 340i, it was immediately obvious that it's no M-car. Pushed like crap - even running a square set up at 255 on all for corners - simply didn't like to turn in...period.

Net is, I ended up eating about 6K in cash to get into the F80 ZCP. It hurt, but man, I'm not looking back. Happy as you could be now!

Plenty of other guys can track a 340 without any problems. Maybe you should ask why its only you.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

You realize that you asked this question in the F8x forum, right? For a balanced perspective, ask the same questions in the E9x and F3x forums.

Coming from the F3X forums, I can agree with the above.

Trying to make your F3X perform like an M3 will ultimately cost more than just doing it the right way from the beginning which is to purchase an M3 and it'll still have a warranty to boot.

Cost of 335i/340i + mods + cost of replacing blown engine > cost of M3 (and included warranty)

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Coming from the F3X forums, I can agree with the above.

Trying to make your F3X perform like an M3 will ultimately cost more than just doing it the right way from the beginning which is to purchase an M3 and it'll still have a warranty to boot.

Cost of 335i/340i + mods + cost of replacing blown engine > cost of M3 (and included warranty)

Not to mention that starting at a higher baseline potentially yields a higher potential.

[AustinTrkJunkie]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Plenty of other guys can track a 340 without any problems. Maybe you should ask why its only you.

LOL, yah I suck I guess. Facts are I was ~10 seconds off pace of the M3 at COTA in the 340. That's a HUGE delta in lap times. And I never said I couldn't track it. It's just no fun being the slowest in the instructor group...get it?

Sure I could go out in the intermediate group and run fine, but I don't go on track to lower my expectations or lap times. If you like your 340, great. In stock form it's simply not a real track car. Period.

[F83]

Originally Posted by chromatic

Returned my DINAN stage 2 335i last week and picked up an f80 m3. F80 m3 is a complete different animal man. It is a proper ///M car period. I spent all that money with mods, etc on my 335i thinking I will reach that level but its not even close. Again, my intent is not to bash 340i or anything like that. Its a great cat for what it does but its just not an M.

Learned that lesson in the E90 generation.

[JamesGames]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Plenty of other guys can track a 340 without any problems. Maybe you should ask why its only you.

I've also seen a camry at the track, on stock all season tires and 15 inch rims squealing around the turns at 20mph. Driver didn't complain at all and he ran what he brung.

AustinTrkJunkie tried both, and his conclusion was the difference between the two cars was worth the extra money for him. Have you tracked both setups and had the difference in opinions?

My point is this, only you can determine what's worth it to you. If you have doubts an M4 is worth it or not, it probably isn't worth it. Is a GT3 worth the cost over a Carrera S to you? This argument can go in circles and no one will ever agree. My wife, my mom, all disagree w/ my M4 being worth it. However, I've had non-M and M cars, to me, are more than worth their money..

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by AustinTrkJunkie

LOL, yah I suck I guess. Facts are I was ~10 seconds off pace of the M3 at COTA in the 340. That's a HUGE delta in lap times. And I never said I couldn't track it. It's just no fun being the slowest in the instructor group...get it?

Sure I could go out in the intermediate group and run fine, but I don't go on track to lower my expectations or lap times. If you like your 340, great. In stock form it's simply not a real track car. Period.

Who tracks the 340 stock? I'm sure many guys do but many like me also mod it for the track and its perfectly able.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Who tracks the 340 stock? I'm sure many guys do but many like me also mod it for the track and its perfectly able.

On a circuit for more than a few laps no you can't track it. You will either overheat the brakes or, the oil or your intake air temperatures will be through the roof.

No, not many people track their 340i stock, because it's not meant to handle it in stock form.

Please tell me you are trolling us because no one worth their salt would even remotely think a stock 340 can seriously handle track use.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by neilum

On a circuit for more than a few laps no you can't track it. You will either overheat the brakes or, the oil or your intake air temperatures will be through the roof.

No, not many people track their 340i stock, because it's not meant to handle it in stock form.

Please tell me you are trolling us because no one worth their salt would even remotely think a stock 340 can seriously handle track use.

I had the track handling package on my old 340i. I never got to track it, but I was wondering if you have seen or talked to anyone track with this package. Fog light delete and extra radiators were part of the track handling along with the brakes.

[Ghetto2315]

When my clients come in to my center and they ask me this question (or vice versa with the F32 vs F82 debate) and I tell them right from the start that there is no comparison and if you can afford it (and your lifestyle agrees with it), get the M 10/10 times. It's almost like the whole "no replacement for displacement" argument. Spend as much money as you want modding a F3X, it will never have the same visceral feel/performance of an F8X.