M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG

Mako · 01-26-2012, 05:49 PM

just curious since most people here are M3 owners or fans (I am a fan of the M3 and all competition except the IS-F). Anyway, now that Mercedes has rolled out all the 5.5L Turbo V8s with their 63 AMG models (E, CLS, S) and even putting the same engine without turbo in the tiny SLK, I would have to believe they will put the turbo 5.5L in the next gen C63 (2014 or 2015 model year, same as next gen M3). Now it will probably be scaled down power wise just like the current C63 was compared to its bigger brothers, BUT I would imagine it still having more power than the current one, maybe 480 to start, and with the performance package getting the same 518 horsepower the E63/CLS63 have. The E63 is rated at 16/24 MPG with that engine (which is pretty amazing), so I would assume the C63 would get even better numbers. Also the current C63 coupe with performance package was tested at 3.7 seconds 0-60 (480 horsepower 6.3L engine). So with a lighter 5.5L engine and equal or more power I would assume that will stay the same.

Having said all that and Mercedes keeping the V8 (which sounds awesome) compared to BMW switching to a 6, would you guys still take the M3? My father has a current M3 and it is "different" to drive than my C63 but both cars are awesome in their own way. We both agreed for track driving the M3 is amazing, its a lot more nimble than the C63, but for everyday suburb driving the C63 is just a beast and fun to drive.

I was pretty set on getting the next gen M3 just based on the speculation of a 450 horsepower turbo (some form) i6 engine and assuming all German manufacturers would be going away from the V8, should be a great car to drive, but if I can get a V8 for the same price (or less) that is really tempting. Same goes with a possible future RS4/5 having a V8 turbo.

I really wish BMW would have just taken its 4.4L V8 turbo and juiced it up for the M3, that can easily put out 450+ horsepower, and to prove it look at the new X6 performance package, it has 440 horsepower with that engine! But I guess that would be stepping on the M5s toes.

hwelvaar · 01-27-2012, 09:33 AM

A 5.5L engine costs like 4.000$ per year in taxes here in Belgium, and probably other European countries.
A 3.2 L would costs about 1.200$ per year in taxes.

Just for that, I'd have M3 over C63 AMG any day.

You Americans have the luck not having to worry about engine displacement. We do. And I guess BMW takes this into account as well when designing new cars.

And don't forget that 6-cylinder engines is what defines a great part of BMW's legacy, including multiple M3 generations.

Paul-Bracq-BMW · 02-02-2012, 09:42 PM

Also The inline6 turbo will have the same HP as a V8, the same amount of torque (if not higher) and will weigh less, making the car lighter and better balanced. You will have the best of both worlds with the new M3, and with the classic inline 6 sound to match!

agentm · 02-02-2012, 10:12 PM

MB NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

yaymitch · 09-03-2012, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentm

MB NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you say this? Ever driven an AMG? I am okay with your opinion, but at least explain your reasoning. Or not...

Gjm127 · 09-04-2012, 02:39 AM

I'm in the same situation as you, but haven't yet experienced driving a V8 for everyday use.
I'm actually looking at getting an E92 M3 instead of the new generation M3 for my next car.
I want to experience this V8 M3 while it's still the current model.

BMW269 · 09-04-2012, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Also The inline6 turbo will have the same HP as a V8, the same amount of torque (if not higher) and will weigh less, making the car lighter and better balanced. You will have the best of both worlds with the new M3, and with the classic inline 6 sound to match!

Wrong.

Uli_HH · 09-04-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi

Wrong.

+10!

Quote:

... will weigh less, making the car lighter and better balanced ...

Sorry, but only partly true if you compare an I6 Turbo with an V8 Turbo ... but not if you compare it with an N/A V8 ... I am pretty sure that the incoming "S55" won´t be any lighter than the S65 V8 - the S65 was an very light V8 with 202kg / the base N55 weights 190kg(?) plus make him stronger and add the TriTurbo-System from the N57S instead of the single TwinScroll-Turbo would bring this engine easily in the 200kg+ range.

And an I6 is allways much longer than an V8 so that in every case with an I6 much more weight is put further forward than with an V8 ... and that meen that in every case the same car is (easier) better balanced with an V8 than with an I6 ... thats the only truth.

richb811 · 09-04-2012, 11:58 AM

From a drivers perspective, I like the idea of the M3 better. Its a more driver focused vehicle. MB still has a long way to go to get the C class AMG to be on par from a total package perspective with the M3.

Whether or not BMW delivers with the newest iteration is a different question entirely. Based on their previous cars I have little reason to doubt them.

I've chosen cars before simply on the basis of engine, and frankly I was disappointed. As much as I loved my 03 Corvette Z06, I could have had an E46 M3 for the same price and after driving both extensively I know which one I would pick going back in time.

Best of luck with your decision!

kyleb350 · 09-04-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

A 5.5L engine costs like 4.000$ per year in taxes here in Belgium, and probably other European countries.
A 3.2 L would costs about 1.200$ per year in taxes.

Just for that, I'd have M3 over C63 AMG any day.

You Americans have the luck not having to worry about engine displacement. We do. And I guess BMW takes this into account as well when designing new cars.

And don't forget that 6-cylinder engines is what defines a great part of BMW's legacy, including multiple M3 generations.

I never got why Europe did this. If a car company can make an engine get 25 MPG and over 400HP, who cares how large it is?

Gjm127 · 09-05-2012, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyleb350

I never got why Europe did this. If a car company can make an engine get 25 MPG and over 400HP, who cares how large it is?

I think it was more BMW's choice rather than legal restrictions forcing them to downgrade to I6.
I6 has always been BMW's bread and butter, even though I highly feel like this V8 should have been kept and could have been one hell of a dynasty.

CALWATERBOY · 09-05-2012, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

A 5.5L engine costs like 4.000$ per year in taxes here in Belgium, and probably other European countries.
A 3.2 L would costs about 1.200$ per year in taxes.

You Americans have the luck not having to worry about engine displacement. We do. And I guess BMW takes this into account as well when designing new cars.

Advice: Vote the bums out!

Tacoma · 09-06-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agentm

MB NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaymitch

Hey, Fan-boy!!

Why do you say this? Ever driven an AMG? I am okay with your opinion, but at least explain your reasoning. Or not...

It's the same as the OP saying "except IS-F" but you didn't catch that. To each his own.

aus · 09-07-2012, 01:42 AM

The answer is a blown S65.

.

valeram · 10-01-2012, 02:13 PM

Same here. I am thinking of getting the 2014 E92 M3 or the latest C63. The way I look at it, M's and AMG's should have a different engine from the same model lineup.

nbennettksu · 10-04-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeram

Same here. I am thinking of getting the 2014 E92 M3 or the latest C63. The way I look at it, M's and AMG's should have a different engine from the same model lineup.

Better hurry; 2013 is the last year of the E92, not 2014.

seanwillnotreturn · 10-07-2012, 12:03 AM

Mercedes is not very good at making C AMG look good, isnt he?

gblansten · 10-07-2012, 10:23 AM

I'll be test driving both and will decide based on pure fun of driving unless...

...if BMW puts Active Sound in the next M3 then I will move on to another make.

///Mperative · 10-07-2012, 10:25 AM

There's no comparison between the M3 and C63 (in their current versions). You need to drive the C63 to get a sense of what I'm talking about. Basically, aside from the C63's cheap and crowded (way too many buttons) dashboard, it can't put down its power as effectively as the M3. I haven't driven one in a few years, so maybe they fixed this. When I drove it, the back end liked to step out under light acceleration. It's a little fun, but I couldn't live with something like that. I can't even imagine how horrible it would be in snow.

amdmaxx · 10-19-2012, 07:08 AM

Ats-v might be a viable option too.

motorsport_cat · 10-23-2012, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

Also The inline6 turbo will have the same HP as a V8, the same amount of torque (if not higher) and will weigh less, making the car lighter and better balanced. You will have the best of both worlds with the new M3, and with the classic inline 6 sound to match!

Wrong.

its not wrong!!!

flightz71 · 10-23-2012, 05:44 PM

I just hate how skinny the rear of a c63 is and will never plop $100k+ for a black edition.

01-26-2012, 05:49 PM	#1
Mako (Sold) '00 M Roadster '06 M Coupe '16 M3 '20 X3MC 1638 Rep 2,605 Posts Drives: '23 M3 comp Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chicago suburbs iTrader: (0)	M3/M4 vs W205 C63 AMG just curious since most people here are M3 owners or fans (I am a fan of the M3 and all competition except the IS-F). Anyway, now that Mercedes has rolled out all the 5.5L Turbo V8s with their 63 AMG models (E, CLS, S) and even putting the same engine without turbo in the tiny SLK, I would have to believe they will put the turbo 5.5L in the next gen C63 (2014 or 2015 model year, same as next gen M3). Now it will probably be scaled down power wise just like the current C63 was compared to its bigger brothers, BUT I would imagine it still having more power than the current one, maybe 480 to start, and with the performance package getting the same 518 horsepower the E63/CLS63 have. The E63 is rated at 16/24 MPG with that engine (which is pretty amazing), so I would assume the C63 would get even better numbers. Also the current C63 coupe with performance package was tested at 3.7 seconds 0-60 (480 horsepower 6.3L engine). So with a lighter 5.5L engine and equal or more power I would assume that will stay the same. Having said all that and Mercedes keeping the V8 (which sounds awesome) compared to BMW switching to a 6, would you guys still take the M3? My father has a current M3 and it is "different" to drive than my C63 but both cars are awesome in their own way. We both agreed for track driving the M3 is amazing, its a lot more nimble than the C63, but for everyday suburb driving the C63 is just a beast and fun to drive. I was pretty set on getting the next gen M3 just based on the speculation of a 450 horsepower turbo (some form) i6 engine and assuming all German manufacturers would be going away from the V8, should be a great car to drive, but if I can get a V8 for the same price (or less) that is really tempting. Same goes with a possible future RS4/5 having a V8 turbo. I really wish BMW would have just taken its 4.4L V8 turbo and juiced it up for the M3, that can easily put out 450+ horsepower, and to prove it look at the new X6 performance package, it has 440 horsepower with that engine! But I guess that would be stepping on the M5s toes.
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01-27-2012, 09:33 AM	#2
hwelvaar Major 118 Rep 1,140 Posts Drives: BMW M135i MT Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Belgium iTrader: (0)	A 5.5L engine costs like 4.000$ per year in taxes here in Belgium, and probably other European countries. A 3.2 L would costs about 1.200$ per year in taxes. Just for that, I'd have M3 over C63 AMG any day. You Americans have the luck not having to worry about engine displacement. We do. And I guess BMW takes this into account as well when designing new cars. And don't forget that 6-cylinder engines is what defines a great part of BMW's legacy, including multiple M3 generations.
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02-02-2012, 09:42 PM	#3
Paul-Bracq-BMW Moderator 4127 Rep 1,973 Posts Drives: 1981 323i, sports M5, LSD Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Also The inline6 turbo will have the same HP as a V8, the same amount of torque (if not higher) and will weigh less, making the car lighter and better balanced. You will have the best of both worlds with the new M3, and with the classic inline 6 sound to match! __________________ 1981 323i, 143 Kashmir-Metallic, 0094 Pergament, Sports M5, LSD.
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02-02-2012, 10:12 PM	#4
agentm Private 0 Rep 97 Posts Drives: M3, X3 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Everywhere iTrader: (0)	MB NEVER!!!!!!!!!!! __________________ 2004 M3 Silver Gray / CSL Header and Cats / RE El Diablo Exhaust / Hotchkis Swaybar / KW v2 / RD Sport Rims 19' / Falken FK-452 tires / Reinforcement Kit / Smoke Corner / 50% Tinted / Painted Shadow Grille / Umnitza Halo light / Hanman Lip / CF Diffusor / Autosolution SSK 30% / Aluminum Foot Pedals / AA Shift knob / AA Sport Fan Clutch / 3.91 Diff *Active Auto HKS Gen 6 Level 1.5 S/C*
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09-04-2012, 02:39 AM	#6
Gjm127 Lieutenant 40 Rep 544 Posts Drives: BMW 435i xDrive M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Montreal, QC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW F32 435i x ... [9.50] 2009 BMW E92 328i x ... [9.66]	I'm in the same situation as you, but haven't yet experienced driving a V8 for everyday use. I'm actually looking at getting an E92 M3 instead of the new generation M3 for my next car. I want to experience this V8 M3 while it's still the current model.
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09-04-2012, 11:58 AM	#9
richb811 481 Rep 4,591 Posts Drives: 2020 G20 330i M Sport Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: NJ iTrader: (21)	From a drivers perspective, I like the idea of the M3 better. Its a more driver focused vehicle. MB still has a long way to go to get the C class AMG to be on par from a total package perspective with the M3. Whether or not BMW delivers with the newest iteration is a different question entirely. Based on their previous cars I have little reason to doubt them. I've chosen cars before simply on the basis of engine, and frankly I was disappointed. As much as I loved my 03 Corvette Z06, I could have had an E46 M3 for the same price and after driving both extensively I know which one I would pick going back in time. Best of luck with your decision!
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09-07-2012, 01:42 AM	#14
aus Major General 906 Rep 9,030 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	The answer is a blown S65. . __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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10-01-2012, 02:13 PM	#15
valeram Major 38 Rep 1,413 Posts Drives: 992 TTS, 991.2 GT3 T, F80 M3 C Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dublin, OH iTrader: (0)	Same here. I am thinking of getting the 2014 E92 M3 or the latest C63. The way I look at it, M's and AMG's should have a different engine from the same model lineup.
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10-07-2012, 12:03 AM	#17
seanwillnotreturn New Member 2 Rep 20 Posts Drives: m3 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Shanghai iTrader: (0)	Mercedes is not very good at making C AMG look good, isnt he?
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10-07-2012, 10:23 AM	#18
gblansten Brigadier General 2485 Rep 4,550 Posts Drives: 23 Tesla S Plaid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Thick ascending limb iTrader: (0)	I'll be test driving both and will decide based on pure fun of driving unless... ...if BMW puts Active Sound in the next M3 then I will move on to another make.
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10-07-2012, 10:25 AM	#19
///Mperative Second Lieutenant 16 Rep 281 Posts Drives: like grandma Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New England iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW 550xi [0.00] 2011 E92 M3 [0.00]	There's no comparison between the M3 and C63 (in their current versions). You need to drive the C63 to get a sense of what I'm talking about. Basically, aside from the C63's cheap and crowded (way too many buttons) dashboard, it can't put down its power as effectively as the M3. I haven't driven one in a few years, so maybe they fixed this. When I drove it, the back end liked to step out under light acceleration. It's a little fun, but I couldn't live with something like that. I can't even imagine how horrible it would be in snow. __________________
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10-19-2012, 07:08 AM	#20
amdmaxx My gift Registry: M2 122 Rep 1,432 Posts Drives: Future Mowner of Monster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Ats-v might be a viable option too.
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10-23-2012, 05:44 PM	#22
flightz71 Second Lieutenant 22 Rep 210 Posts Drives: 2014 F10 535i Join Date: May 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA iTrader: (1)	I just hate how skinny the rear of a c63 is and will never plop $100k+ for a black edition.
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