Oil Cooler Busted/under carriage issue **Update: Another member with similar damage**

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Merli

That's not what concerns me... It's the fact that these engines seem to be completely unrepairable by the dealership mechanics.

I'm sure they are repairable, but perhaps BMWNA has an insurance policy for these types of occurrences where it is cheaper or just easier from a logistics standpoint to just swap them out?

[Spied4US]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

I'm sure they are repairable, but perhaps BMWNA has an insurance policy for these types of occurrences where it is cheaper or just easier from a logistics standpoint to just swap them out?

I agree with your point that these engines probably could be repaired by BMW trained technicians, but as has been discussed elsewhere, BMW AG is loath to disclosure even the simplest repair procedures to its franchised dealerships for fear the repair procedures will be compromised to independent repair shops. Elaborate log-on requirements exist to restrict access to "proprietary data" for even the most basic repair and maintenance procedures.

However, there is another aspect of this repair that's puzzling (aside from the issue of how the damage occurred in the first place). Frankly, I don't understand why BMW treated this as a warranty issue in the first place. The OP stated he hit something in the road, debris of some sort. How is that "collision" a warranty claim? The same thing happens to A/C radiators/condensers all the time, and those warranty claims are denied as a matter of routine. The usual remedy is to (politely) advise the claimant to contact his insurance carrier. This is, in fact, a collision claim. Of course, then you get into all that business about one's deductible, etc., but here again none of this is BMW's responsibility. IMHO, the OP lucked out.

[e36]

Originally Posted by Spied4US

I agree with your point that these engines probably could be repaired by BMW trained technicians, but as has been discussed elsewhere, BMW AG is loath to disclosure even the simplest repair procedures to its franchised dealerships for fear the repair procedures will be compromised to independent repair shops. Elaborate log-on requirements exist to restrict access to "proprietary data" for even the most basic repair and maintenance procedures.

However, there is another aspect of this repair that's puzzling (aside from the issue of how the damage occurred in the first place). Frankly, I don't understand why BMW treated this as a warranty issue in the first place. The OP stated he hit something in the road, debris of some sort. How is that "collision" a warranty claim? The same thing happens to A/C radiators/condensers all the time, and those warranty claims are denied as a matter of routine. The usual remedy is to (politely) advise the claimant to contact his insurance carrier. This is, in fact, a collision claim. Of course, then you get into all that business about one's deductible, etc., but here again none of this is BMW's responsibility. IMHO, the OP lucked out.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe BMW realizes there's a design flaw since OP mentioned "it is common in m5 and m6s "

[huatian]

OP did you ever find out what you hit?

[Vectors2final]

Originally Posted by Spied4US

I agree with your point that these engines probably could be repaired by BMW trained technicians, but as has been discussed elsewhere, BMW AG is loath to disclosure even the simplest repair procedures to its franchised dealerships for fear the repair procedures will be compromised to independent repair shops. Elaborate log-on requirements exist to restrict access to "proprietary data" for even the most basic repair and maintenance procedures.

However, there is another aspect of this repair that's puzzling (aside from the issue of how the damage occurred in the first place). Frankly, I don't understand why BMW treated this as a warranty issue in the first place. The OP stated he hit something in the road, debris of some sort. How is that "collision" a warranty claim? The same thing happens to A/C radiators/condensers all the time, and those warranty claims are denied as a matter of routine. The usual remedy is to (politely) advise the claimant to contact his insurance carrier. This is, in fact, a collision claim. Of course, then you get into all that business about one's deductible, etc., but here again none of this is BMW's responsibility. IMHO, the OP lucked out.

I think it's all at the discretion of BMWAG. Things like this are case-by-case, and sometimes things are taken care of in order to save face and use it as a learning experience to figure out exactly what happened in order to maybe prevent it in the future. We'll never really know why they covered it, and it's one of those things what might not seem fair if they don't cover it for someone else, but the original is reaping the "benefit" of being one of the first to have this kind of issue.

This kind of thing has happened with not just cars, but other electronics. Hell, Apple replaced a phone for me maybe five years back that I had actually messed up. They did it for a few other people as well, but then they stopped. Don't know why, or what made them do it... But it worked out for me.

[mkoesel]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I too am curious about how this became a warranty claim vs. an insurance claim. Perhaps BMW acknowledged in some way or another - without admitting to anything - that a minor incident such as this (as per the description by the OP) ought not to have resulted in such damage, and decided it made most sense financially to fix it themselves.

Either way, good luck with all the repairs, OP. Somehow I missed this when it was originally posted.

Originally Posted by Spied4US

Frankly, I don't understand why BMW treated this as a warranty issue in the first place. The OP stated he hit something in the road, debris of some sort. How is that "collision" a warranty claim?

...

This is, in fact, a collision claim. Of course, then you get into all that business about one's deductible, etc., but here again none of this is BMW's responsibility. IMHO, the OP lucked out.

[dhoggm3]

OP thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are a lot of us out here who will be less prone to straddle road debris from now on...

[ASAP]

2nd person this has happened to... That deer guy was first.

[DocWeatherington]

I see this as being a time for BMW to research and tear apart the motor for cause and effect purposes.

[JoeFromPA]

Can someone help me understand the engine failure aspect here....?

His oil cooler cracks and starts leaking oil. The engine can safely be run in non track conditions down about 2.5-3 quarts, which is alot of oil to leak out of an oil cooler that's been cracked.

The car is being driven. How does a low oil or low oil pressure light NOT come on when the car looses oil very quickly? How is the car continuing to be driven without any warning lights as it loses multiple quarts of oil which, I'm assuming, would take a few minutes not happen over 10-15 seconds.

Also, you can safely run a car at idle with very little oil in the sump (or even dry) without the engine locking up for a good amount of time assuming it was recently lubricated. Idling engines require next to no active oil flow or pressure to at least continue running.

I'm just trying to understand this a bit better.

[W///]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Can someone help me understand the engine failure aspect here....?

His oil cooler cracks and starts leaking oil. The engine can safely be run in non track conditions down about 2.5-3 quarts, which is alot of oil to leak out of an oil cooler that's been cracked.

The car is being driven. How does a low oil or low oil pressure light NOT come on when the car looses oil very quickly? How is the car continuing to be driven without any warning lights as it loses multiple quarts of oil which, I'm assuming, would take a few minutes not happen over 10-15 seconds.

Also, you can safely run a car at idle with very little oil in the sump (or even dry) without the engine locking up for a good amount of time assuming it was recently lubricated. Idling engines require next to no active oil flow or pressure to at least continue running.

I'm just trying to understand this a bit better.

Agreed. If the oil light didn't come on, then it shouldn't be damaged. If it's not damaged, shouldn't this be a matter of a new oil cooler and you're on your way?

[SuckaGDog]

Originally Posted by Victorwu120

Not very concerning unless you Money shift, or hit something on the road dead on and managed to kill the oil cooler. What I am surprised about is the little bump on the road the other day that I SCRAPED MY WHOLE OIL PAN ON. All it left was a pretty roughed up bolt on one side. Boy I was lucky!!

Are you talking about when you tried to leave that parking lot in your car at angle and the rear wheels just spun digging the front of your car into the ground? Because that wasn't a bump I saw the video lol.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by W///

Agreed. If the oil light didn't come on, then it shouldn't be damaged. If it's not damaged, shouldn't this be a matter of a new oil cooler and you're on your way?

Yes and I've seen this with other vehicles. It's not totally unusual for people to crack their oil pans or bust an oil cooler - let's face it, oil pans are usually exposed on sports cars and oil coolers are by necessity in an open air path.

What's unusual it that it leads to any sort of real engine damage for the simple reality that:

1. Cracking an oil pan or oil cooler is usually a loud and very notable event
2. Almost every car for decades immediately warns you of a lack of oil pressure/oil level, especially one as electronic as this one.

For complete transparency though, I know that the Subaru Legacy GT of 2005-2009 had an issue whereby when the oil light kicked on it was joked as the "change engine light" because it came on when oil pressure hit 2 PSI and basically no oil was left in the engine. So I know some manufacturers screwed the pooch on designing this warning system correctly.

But outside of that one example I know of plenty of individuals who broke an oil cooler/cracked an oil pan, lost some oil, pulled over, and flatbedded the car to get it replaced and then went on their merry way....

So I'm trying to understand how it happened here.

[W///]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Yes and I've seen this with other vehicles. It's not totally unusual for people to crack their oil pans or bust an oil cooler - let's face it, oil pans are usually exposed on sports cars and oil coolers are by necessity in an open air path.

What's unusual it that it leads to any sort of real engine damage for the simple reality that:

1. Cracking an oil pan or oil cooler is usually a loud and very notable event
2. Almost every car for decades immediately warns you of a lack of oil pressure/oil level, especially one as electronic as this one.

For complete transparency though, I know that the Subaru Legacy GT of 2005-2009 had an issue whereby when the oil light kicked on it was joked as the "change engine light" because it came on when oil pressure hit 2 PSI and basically no oil was left in the engine. So I know some manufacturers screwed the pooch on designing this warning system correctly.

But outside of that one example I know of plenty of individuals who broke an oil cooler/cracked an oil pan, lost some oil, pulled over, and flatbedded the car to get it replaced and then went on their merry way....

So I'm trying to understand how it happened here.

Change engine light, nice I'm going to have to save that for later use haha.

I know BMW's historically in the past have been good about that. The light will come on long before you are complete out of oil. It looks like the OP lost a lot, but I'm just still very surprised no warning came on.

Could it be that the oil sensor was faulty? Kind of unlikely, but who knows?

[LAnderson23]

Yeah, reading through this I was just assuming that OP was just having this all done under insurance...I can't believe BMW covered this. They wouldn't even fix my scratched rim for free, heh.

OP, did they tell you why they were willing to cover this under warranty? Although, if I was in your shoes I'm not sure I would ask too many questions either, heh. If they told me they would I'd probably just keep quiet in case they changed their mind!

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by huatian

OP did you ever find out what you hit?

Yikes! Sorry about the car...did you have a front plate installed at all? Was considering 3M tape but now after seeing this wouldn't want that falling off and run it over...

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by Spied4US

I agree with your point that these engines probably could be repaired by BMW trained technicians, but as has been discussed elsewhere, BMW AG is loath to disclosure even the simplest repair procedures to its franchised dealerships for fear the repair procedures will be compromised to independent repair shops. Elaborate log-on requirements exist to restrict access to "proprietary data" for even the most basic repair and maintenance procedures.

However, there is another aspect of this repair that's puzzling (aside from the issue of how the damage occurred in the first place). Frankly, I don't understand why BMW treated this as a warranty issue in the first place. The OP stated he hit something in the road, debris of some sort. How is that "collision" a warranty claim? The same thing happens to A/C radiators/condensers all the time, and those warranty claims are denied as a matter of routine. The usual remedy is to (politely) advise the claimant to contact his insurance carrier. This is, in fact, a collision claim. Of course, then you get into all that business about one's deductible, etc., but here again none of this is BMW's responsibility. IMHO, the OP lucked out.

Yes this is through insurance. However I am still talking with BMW NA

Originally Posted by e36

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe BMW realizes there's a design flaw since OP mentioned "it is common in m5 and m6s "

My mechanic said this isnt the first time that the oil cooler has been damaged and the car had to be brought in. Im just the first M4 this has happened to.

Originally Posted by huatian

OP did you ever find out what you hit?

No. Freak accident. My gf jokingly says it could have been the devils fist lol

Originally Posted by Vectors2final

I think it's all at the discretion of BMWAG. Things like this are case-by-case, and sometimes things are taken care of in order to save face and use it as a learning experience to figure out exactly what happened in order to maybe prevent it in the future. We'll never really know why they covered it, and it's one of those things what might not seem fair if they don't cover it for someone else, but the original is reaping the "benefit" of being one of the first to have this kind of issue.

This kind of thing has happened with not just cars, but other electronics. Hell, Apple replaced a phone for me maybe five years back that I had actually messed up. They did it for a few other people as well, but then they stopped. Don't know why, or what made them do it... But it worked out for me.

Lets just say im happy that this is a lease and that i have very good insurance since my family and I have been with the same company for 20+ years

Originally Posted by dhoggm3

OP thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are a lot of us out here who will be less prone to straddle road debris from now on...

Yes accidents happen. I am very happy that I am alive because this could have been worse

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I see this as being a time for BMW to research and tear apart the motor for cause and effect purposes.

No.....they have plenty of test cars to work on. I want mine back lol

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Can someone help me understand the engine failure aspect here....?

His oil cooler cracks and starts leaking oil. The engine can safely be run in non track conditions down about 2.5-3 quarts, which is alot of oil to leak out of an oil cooler that's been cracked.

The car is being driven. How does a low oil or low oil pressure light NOT come on when the car looses oil very quickly? How is the car continuing to be driven without any warning lights as it loses multiple quarts of oil which, I'm assuming, would take a few minutes not happen over 10-15 seconds.

Also, you can safely run a car at idle with very little oil in the sump (or even dry) without the engine locking up for a good amount of time assuming it was recently lubricated. Idling engines require next to no active oil flow or pressure to at least continue running.

I'm just trying to understand this a bit better.

here is what happened. I drove 0.5 miles from where I hit the object, to the gas station. I did not see a ton of oil leaking until I obviously got out of the car. By then it was too late, but I had no idea. Tow truck came, car wouldnt turn on. Warning on the idrive stated that there is a drivetrain malfunction.

There was no warning on the idrive from what I hit to when I stopped at the gas station. Oh well.

Originally Posted by W///

Change engine light, nice I'm going to have to save that for later use haha.

I know BMW's historically in the past have been good about that. The light will come on long before you are complete out of oil. It looks like the OP lost a lot, but I'm just still very surprised no warning came on.

Could it be that the oil sensor was faulty? Kind of unlikely, but who knows?

Could be. who knows.

Originally Posted by rhk118

Yikes! Sorry about the car...did you have a front plate installed at all? Was considering 3M tape but now after seeing this wouldn't want that falling off and run it over...

No front plate. As you can see in the pictures.

Originally Posted by LAnderson23

Yeah, reading through this I was just assuming that OP was just having this all done under insurance...I can't believe BMW covered this. They wouldn't even fix my scratched rim for free, heh.

OP, did they tell you why they were willing to cover this under warranty? Although, if I was in your shoes I'm not sure I would ask too many questions either, heh. If they told me they would I'd probably just keep quiet in case they changed their mind!

No this was never a "under warranty" issue. this was an accident due to a road hazard and my insurance is covering it.



Thanks for the responses everyone. As far as me speaking with BMW NA.....Ill report on what they will be doing for me

[auggiem3]

Originally Posted by HadiF82

UPDATE 2/17/15:

I pulled over to the nearest gas station(not even a quarter of a mile) turned off the car and called a tow truck.

vs.

"here is what happened. I drove 0.5 miles from where I hit the object, to the gas station."

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by auggiem3

vs.

"here is what happened. I drove 0.5 miles from where I hit the object, to the gas station."

[JoeFromPA]

Let's assume .25-.5 miles to the gas station took 1 minute of travel with a car leaking oil and no warning lights.

My guess is that that would no tbe enough time for the car to both leak out enough oil to damage it running at a low engine speed/load, especially with no warning light.

I would assume you had pushed some aluminum fragments into the oil flow that got sucked into the engine causing it to fail, but the oil cooler goes to and from the oil filter - so I doubt a fragment went into it's flow and then bypassed the filter somehow...?

I'm really at a loss as to how your engine "blew" here. You stopped a car with no warning lights, it wouldn't re-start, and you drove it for maybe 1 minute under a light load while it was leaking oil which should not be enough time to seize up an engine (enough time to create some minor damage, maybe).

The inability to re-start still sounds to me like a fail safe from inadequate oil in the sump. A car will totally start iself with no oil in the sump unless it's prevented from doing so.

....again, wtf actually happened to your engine? IDK....

[991brothers]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Let's assume .25-.5 miles to the gas station took 1 minute of travel with a car leaking oil and no warning lights.

My guess is that that would no tbe enough time for the car to both leak out enough oil to damage it running at a low engine speed/load, especially with no warning light.

I would assume you had pushed some aluminum fragments into the oil flow that got sucked into the engine causing it to fail, but the oil cooler goes to and from the oil filter - so I doubt a fragment went into it's flow and then bypassed the filter somehow...?

I'm really at a loss as to how your engine "blew" here. You stopped a car with no warning lights, it wouldn't re-start, and you drove it for maybe 1 minute under a light load while it was leaking oil which should not be enough time to seize up an engine (enough time to create some minor damage, maybe).

The inability to re-start still sounds to me like a fail safe from inadequate oil in the sump. A car will totally start iself with no oil in the sump unless it's prevented from doing so.

....again, wtf actually happened to your engine? IDK....

Well it did seize my motor and it happened. gotta move on.

If you would like ill load up pictures of the blown engine. Right now im on the road and will post it later.

[Yeoman]

Originally Posted by HadiF82

Well it did seize my motor and it happened. gotta move on.

yeah really.. I don't know anyone in their right mind who would want the dealer to attempt a fix on an engine running with little to no oil over a brand new engine replacement.