My engine is blown because of a tiny object, another oil cooler under carriage issue

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by anglo

A tiny hole in one of the oil cooler's veins could be as a result of a defect also. A foreign object hitting the oil cooler is usually pretty obvious.

Good point

[mercedesc63]

Originally Posted by spham

Moderator Note: Before commenting on the situation, please also be aware of these three past incidents which help put things in context. This is not the first time this type of failure has occurred.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1082067
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1094424
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1159393

F82 owners (and possibly other M cars), December 30th was a terrible and sad day for me. I blew my engine.......

I was driving on the freeway to a meeting when all of a sudden a "Low Oil Pressure Warning: Stop carefully" warning came on. I found it weird because I had an oil change at like 1.6k miles (my car was at 9k at the time) so I thought it was just missing oil or something since the car was relatively new. We also didn't feel or hear anything. Shortly after, I got a "Drivetrain malfunction" warning from the car that also said to "drive moderately". The car seem to drive fine as all this was happening.

I decided to finally exit the freeway and pull over to a nearby gas station. As we were exiting we heard some clunking noise from the engine. We parked and checked under the car and saw some smoke. Shortly after (1-3 minutes) we saw oil leaking from the front of the car. We called BMW's emergency roadside assistance which sent a tow truck to get the car to the nearest BMW center.

The tow truck came by 20-30 minutes later and to get the car on the truck (the truck had a tow bed) we had to reverse from our spot and push it onto the truck. This meant I had to turn on the car to put the car in reverse as well as in neutral. When we turned it on, the engine sounded terrible as it was throbbing and thrashing and eventually died a couple of times. We didn't know how else to keep it in neutral and reverse so we kept the engine on.

We dropped it off at a nearby BMW center and because it was the 30th, they said they couldn't check it out until Monday, Jan 2. I'm pretty thankful for the rep they assigned me because but they hooked it up with a loaner car which saved the weekend. I really appreciate him for that. But an agonizing wait none the less for the diagnostic.

Come Monday, I dropped off the loaner and asked what happened. The reason was freaking crazy. They found a hole in the oil cooler under the car similar looking to this (not an actual F82 under carriage oil cooler). Not just any hole, a relatively small hole where ONE of the veins was punctured. When they told me this, I was like "a small object did this to my car?". They were like "yeah most likely a small heavy one". They said maybe it was a heavy small rock on the freeway that bounced. They couldn't find the exact object.

I was like wtf rocks are always on the road has this happened to other cars? They answered yes, yes it has. They told me, my engine was wrecked and would have to replace it with a remanufactured one as well as other parts which would cost around 40k. I then asked if this was going to be fronted by BMW in which they responded with no because I drove an extra 9 miles after the "Low oil pressure" warning came on. Saying the engine probably would have been fine if I didn't drive for so long.

At the time, I was a little flabbergasted that a small object can wreck such an amazing piece of engineering so I couldn't really recount the event of the incident. I told them, ok I will make a claim through insurance. But as I kept thinking throughout the day, it friggin sucks because the warning only came up once and it makes the same noise as low tire pressure (which I get a lot because my tires seemed to be having leak issues ever since I got it) and the speed warning one.

What do you guys think? Is it really my fault and should BMW cover this?

Sounds like u need to call ur insurance. Make sure you get a NEW engine not anything less.

[neilum]

What if there is no safe place to pullover? There are many stretches of road that pulling over just isn't a reasonably safe option.

Is BMW saying that in order to remove liability on the owners part they he should stop in the middle of a major highway and literally risk getting smashed by a car/truck going 70 + MPH?

The car is under warranty, and the road damage debris was not his fault.

[The Choosey begger]

Most engines will throw a "Low Oil Pressure Stop Engine" vs BMW's "Low oil pressure", "drive moderately" as the op described.

[einscot]

i wonder if any aftermarket company has finally created a shield of some sort to keep this from happening. we've all accidentally run over something in our lives (didn't see it in time, it couldn't be avoided, etc), and this would seem to be a huge design flaw.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by einscot

i wonder if any aftermarket company has finally created a shield of some sort to keep this from happening. we've all accidentally run over something in our lives (didn't see it in time, it couldn't be avoided, etc), and this would seem to be a huge design flaw.

http://ind-distribution.com/ind/bran...l-cooler-guard

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by neilum

What if there is no safe place to pullover? There are many stretches of road that pulling over just isn't a reasonably safe option.

Is BMW saying that in order to remove liability on the owners part they he should stop in the middle of a major highway and literally risk getting smashed by a car/truck going 70 + MPH?

The car is under warranty, and the road damage debris was not his fault.

You could hit a deer and stall your engine with no safe to park for miles.
Is that BMW's fault too or a poorly secured cargo falls on the roadway and causes a major accident?

Regardless of the brand, you have transmission lines that can be pulled by big truck tire treads laying on the road or puncture an oil pan by a sharp object.

Some cars are more susceptible to this, they designed their cars assuming the roads are clean.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by anglo

Next time you have a low oil pressure warning you need to stop immediately on the shoulder and shut the engine off, regardless of the "drive moderately" message.
No driving for a little while and then to a nearby gas station.
It's serious, nothing to do with the car being fairly new, it's most likely you've lost a significant amount of oil to trigger a low oil pressure warning.

^ This.

If you get a warning that says 'low oil stop carefully' and you keep driving for 9mi, I'm not sure why you'd expect BMW to cover anything.

Sorry OP, but insurance is probably the only way to go.

[Xerxes480]

Ouch - sorry to hear about this, OP! Good luck in getting to a resolution!

-X-

[spham]

Hey all,

Hope I can address all the questions:

Why did I keep driving?

It was a really confusing situation because the first warning said "Stop carefully" in the title which also what the Low Tire Pressure warning says as well but you can still drive fine (my tires have a small leak but not major enough to go completely dead within a couple of minutes, like 0.5-1.0 psi a day). Right after that warning the "Drivetrain malfunction" warning came on with "drive moderately". Not really a good justification I know but you would think the warnings would continue to come up like the seat belt warning noise and message.

How did I deal with the service advisor?

I was pretty respectful. My mood was more sad than angry. I didn't argue with them. I even thanked them for the peace of mind knowing what happened in the end.

Who was the tow truck driver?

I used the SOS service from BMW (that button on the top of the car) and they sent a third part tow truck to get the car. The tow truck guy told me to turn on the car. We did it multiple times because the engine would die and the car would keep going back to park.

For reference this is what the underbody looks like for the F82..

[IMG]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5697/...45c56812_b.jpg[/IMG]

What luck right?




I called insurance yesterday and they will send an inspector in today to verify damages and cost. Will keep you guys updated!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Draper

If you get a warning that says 'low oil stop carefully' and you keep driving for 9mi, I'm not sure why you'd expect BMW to cover anything.

On the other hand, if you pull over immediately and end up getting into a traffic accident as a direct result, or become a crime victim due to the location, or cause harm to another (perhaps your passenger needs immediate medical attention for unrelated reasons, say), will BMW voluntarily assume all liability?

I think we all know the answer to that. No. Way. In. Hell. In other words, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Unfortunately, it sounds like its time to lawyer up.

[AlterZgo]

OP - When you speak w/ your insurance company, make sure you tell them some road debris hit your car causing it to lose oil and engine to seize. You don't want to tell them that you drove X miles, etc. Insurance policies covers accidental damage and almost always have exclusions for mechanical breakdown as they are not in the business of providing mfg warranty coverage. So you don't want them to deny your claim due to mechanical breakdown as your damage was caused accidentally by a rock or other road debris hitting your oil cooler.

[996ttelise]

May want to edit what you say on here also . . .

[Draper]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

On the other hand, if you pull over immediately and end up getting into a traffic accident as a direct result, or become a crime victim due to the location, or cause harm to another (perhaps your passenger needs immediate medical attention for unrelated reasons, say), will BMW voluntarily assume all liability?

I think we all know the answer to that. No. Way. In. Hell. In other words, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Unfortunately, it sounds like its time to lawyer up.

True, and this is why BMW chooses the language it uses in those prompts very carefully. 'Stop Carefully' is a very different message than 'Stop Immediately'.

The biggest issue is going to be the distance the OP traveled after seeing the prompt. If it was a mile or two, it could be argued he could not safely pull over and stop, but 9mi says he saw the prompt and for the most part disregarded it.

OP, I know you came here to try and garner sympathy or shared outrage at BMW, but personally I would not share details like these while you still have an open case with BMW (and your insurance for that matter). Good luck!

[tom @ eas]

Have a similar issue as this in the shop now:



Result of a pipe falling off the back of a truck. Surprisingly, the cooler is still holding oil and no engine damage is present.

[hotrod2448]

Man that sucks. This is a tough situation, if you go to your insurance and file a claim that you hit debris and it caused this damage you may be limiting your options with BMW. I'm not a very litigious person but, if something as small as and common on the roadway as a pebble can cause this kind of devastation and the warnings displayed on the dash were not very clear as to the severity of the situation I would push for it to be warrantied even if it requires getting a lawyer.

[996ttelise]

So BMW Roadside sends their tow service who tells you to turn your car on serval times after the oil leaked out while waiting on the tow service . . . I would go after everyone as the damage may have occurred after oil leaked out and tow service BMW sent out told you to keep turning it back on. Based on several linked incidents, it is clear that catastrophic failure can occur after oil leaks out and the car is turned on simply to get it into neutral. BMW should also send a towing service that knows what the heck they are doing.

[logicalunit]

What a shit show. I'm more nervous about the DCT getting stuck in (P)ark then anything else, to be honest. A lot of these smaller oil cooler incidents may not immediately result in engine damage (I think), it's starting the car again -after all oil has drained out- what does.

[Dranter]

Originally Posted by logicalunit

What a shit show. I'm more nervous about the DCT getting stuck in (P)ark then anything else, to be honest. A lot of these smaller oil cooler incidents may not immediately result in engine damage (I think), it's starting the car again -after all oil has drained out- what does.

Its not stuck in P. Its completely ok. The issue actually is the fact that in order for it to engage N, the engine must be on.

This is why so many cars end up having engine damage for nothing.

[antych]

Originally Posted by spham

It was a really confusing situation because the first warning said "Stop carefully" in the title which also what the Low Tire Pressure warning says as well but you can still drive fine (my tires have a small leak but not major enough to go completely dead within a couple of minutes, like 0.5-1.0 psi a day). Right after that warning the "Drivetrain malfunction" warning came on with "drive moderately". Not really a good justification I know but you would think the warnings would continue to come up like the seat belt warning noise and message.

Well tough luck but it's your own fault. You drive around with punctured tyres and conditioned yourself to ignore serious warnings from your car, designed to save your life and prevent serious damage. I don't think BMW owns you anything.

[logicalunit]

Originally Posted by Dranter

Its not stuck in P. Its completely ok. The issue actually is the fact that in order for it to engage N, the engine must be on.

Tomato, Tomahto, that's what I call being stuck in P.
But you are right, even with all fancy engine electronics and self measuring oil levels and pressure, BMW allows you to start the engine without running oil so you can get it into neutral. I need to get my priorities straight.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by logicalunit

Tomato, Tomahto, that's what I call being stuck in P.
But you are right, even with all fancy engine electronics and self measuring oil levels and pressure, BMW allows you to start the engine without running oil so you can get it into neutral. I need to get my priorities straight.

6MT goes into neutral just fine without the engine running