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      12-02-2020, 09:07 AM   #1101
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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
My problem with jumping to a PCar at this point in my life is they don't have one that contends with an M3 Sedan which is what I need. Panamera nor Macan really fit the bill.
I've been eyeing the Taycan which seems to be a nice replacement - the reviews are amazing.

But... it is a first year car and man there are issues from what I read.

And... I love driving stick

And... I love hearing my car (although Porsche has some cool electronic sounds - sort of like my M3 )
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      12-02-2020, 09:13 AM   #1102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
My problem with jumping to a PCar at this point in my life is they don't have one that contends with an M3 Sedan which is what I need. Panamera nor Macan really fit the bill.
I've been eyeing the Taycan which seems to be a nice replacement - the reviews are amazing.

But... it is a first year car and man there are issues from what I read.

And... I love driving stick

And... I love hearing my car (although Porsche has some cool electronic sounds - sort of like my M3 )
I've driven the Taycan Turbo, I was both impressed and unimpressed. Handling is great, but is lacking feedback in the steering and brakes for a Porsche. Also the gearbox can be clunky at higher speeds. Interior is nice, but not excellent, and the infotainment could be better, the gauge cluster is beautiful though, but I would prefer more hard controls. The sound is okay, but at times doesn't match up. Also have to get use to focusing purely on throttle management due to no gear shifts or revs. Range is fine, but charging network lags behind Tesla, and Electrify America has poor reliability and service, not to mention the back roads I drive to have no chargers in sight. My biggest issue was the price, for the car I drove I could get a nice Model 3 and 718 GTS 4.0 and the interior is a bit cramped. I definitely want to try out a 4S when the sport turismo comes out.
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      12-02-2020, 09:47 AM   #1103
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Originally Posted by Arcades View Post
There is coincidence in this statement someone else here should appreciate.
I don't know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by dmk08 View Post
My problem with jumping to a PCar at this point in my life is they don't have one that contends with an M3 Sedan which is what I need. Panamera nor Macan really fit the bill.
That is a hole in their line up I've always wished they would fill. They could start by taking the RS3/4 and Porschafying them.

My guess is if they did a clean sheet smaller sedan design, it would be electric from here on out.

My wife pushed me to finally just get what I want and not worry about if it only had two seats etc. But, we have a truck and a sedan also for family duty. Still, it would be nice to have a small Porsche sedan or even a M2 like coupe sized option with four seats.
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      12-02-2020, 09:50 AM   #1104
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
I've driven the Taycan Turbo, I was both impressed and unimpressed. Handling is great, but is lacking feedback in the steering and brakes for a Porsche. Also the gearbox can be clunky at higher speeds. Interior is nice, but not excellent, and the infotainment could be better, the gauge cluster is beautiful though, but I would prefer more hard controls. The sound is okay, but at times doesn't match up. Also have to get use to focusing purely on throttle management due to no gear shifts or revs. Range is fine, but charging network lags behind Tesla, and Electrify America has poor reliability and service, not to mention the back roads I drive to have no chargers in sight. My biggest issue was the price, for the car I drove I could get a nice Model 3 and 718 GTS 4.0 and the interior is a bit cramped. I definitely want to try out a 4S when the sport turismo comes out.
This is one of the biggest problems for replacing an M3 with a Taycan as well. The prices obviously don't match up well.
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      12-02-2020, 09:53 AM   #1105
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I don't know what you are talking about.



That is a hole in their line up I've always wished they would fill. They could start by taking the RS3/4 and Porschafying them.

My guess is if they did a clean sheet smaller sedan design, it would be electric from here on out.

My wife pushed me to finally just get what I want and not worry about if it only had two seats etc. But, we have a truck and a sedan also for family duty. Still, it would be nice to have a small Porsche sedan or even a M2 like coupe sized option with four seats.
Yeah I mean we have family haulers but I also want to be able to take "my girls" on weekend fun trips. Me being 6'7" complicates things as in a 911 I am sitting in the back.

I am tempted at ZL1s but thats a lot for a Chevy as I'm sure you know!

If I could buy a 2 seater it would be without a doubt a C8. I would go buy one right now period. My good buddy has the powder blue Z58 and its just so badass.
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      12-02-2020, 10:00 AM   #1106
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Yeah I mean we have family haulers but I also want to be able to take "my girls" on weekend fun trips. Me being 6'7" complicates things as in a 911 I am sitting in the back.

I am tempted at ZL1s but thats a lot for a Chevy as I'm sure you know!

If I could buy a 2 seater it would be without a doubt a C8. I would go buy one right now period. My good buddy has the powder blue Z58 and its just so badass.
I seriously considered the C8, if I got one I think I'd have to wait for the Z06 with the rumored engine in that monster. I'm so disappointed they went only auto. Only other criticism is weight. The Cayman is easily the lightest car I've driven/owned sports car wise and it is amazing. It's a grown up go kart. I wanted to go lighter this time, but I could see being tempted by a Z06 C8 in the future. Definitely gonna let others be the beta testers though with Chevies version of a FPC, DCT etc etc.

I honestly think you'd love a "regular" ZL1. I think that car was built for you speed wise. It is a lot for a Chevy, but that thing is amazing with what it can do out of the box and what it can do fairly cheaply/easily modded. It is really comfy inside, but a pain even for small kids to get it in and out of the back. The visibility thing is real, but you get used to it quickly.

My daughter is ten now and wants to hang out with her friends instead of her boring parents (can't blame her). If we do family outings the AMG is plenty fun for those rare times we do it anymore.

Edit: My Cayman and 911 I test drove have much better head room than my ZLE. That was one of my major disappointments with that car. For an all out track car, I had to really recline the seat to sit in it with my helmet on in a non ideal position. It wasn't a deal breaker, but still sucked. I'm unsure of the C8, but I'm guessing it is the same. Also leg room in the Cayman is amazing and not nearly as cramped as I thought it would be. I'm only 5'11 though.

Last edited by minn19; 12-02-2020 at 10:11 AM..
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      12-02-2020, 10:17 AM   #1107
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dmk08, I also forget to mention the two Chevy dealers I went to/called big timed me. One has a rope around there C8 on the floor with a 45k ADM. They want 126k on a 81k MSRP 3LT Z51 package. Of course you couldn't test drive, but they wouldn't even let you sit in it without putting a deposit down etc.

I go to Porsche they have the Cayman and a used 911 I was looking at ready to go. They take my license and toss me the keys and say be back in a reasonable time.

Ford, Cadillac and Chevy are the only ones that have ever done this to me. I don't get it. It doesn't piss me off, but it is ridiculous IMO. Especially when its clear I'm (others) arent a teenager looking for a quick joyride. I've never had this problem with MB, Audi, Porsche and of course BMW.

https://www.stillwatermotors.com/new...6a17dbd1ea.htm

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      12-02-2020, 10:45 AM   #1108
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I’m not in the car market anytime soon (just got back into an M3 again). The C8 looks interesting, but (and I haven’t done too much research into this), one sticking point might be the dealership/after sales experience. Read some horror stories here on the forum about folks and their Corvettes.

This is a little surprising to me, especially since higher end cars have better margins and its to GM’s best interest to lay out the red carpet as we say. That’s the 1 thing that always filtered out Corvettes for me, the dealership experience.
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      12-02-2020, 11:17 AM   #1109
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Originally Posted by CT_M3 View Post
I’m not in the car market anytime soon (just got back into an M3 again). The C8 looks interesting, but (and I haven’t done too much research into this), one sticking point might be the dealership/after sales experience. Read some horror stories here on the forum about folks and their Corvettes.

This is a little surprising to me, especially since higher end cars have better margins and its to GM’s best interest to lay out the red carpet as we say. That’s the 1 thing that always filtered out Corvettes for me, the dealership experience.
It’s nice when you have a problem that you get a decent loaner from the higher end German brands. My experience with my GT350 issues was they offered me a beat to shit stripped Fiesta/Focus for a loaner. And this was a months long repair(s). I’ve heard the same with Chevy. I ended up declining and driving my own car.

It is something I didn’t consider pre GT350, but I definitely do now. I don’t think it would stop me from getting a C8, but I think I’d talk to the dealer and see if they could agree to put you in a decent loaner and not a stripped Cruze or something like that.
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      12-02-2020, 11:26 AM   #1110
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It’s nice when you have a problem that you get a decent loaner from the higher end German brands. My experience with my GT350 issues was they offered me a beat to shit stripped Fiesta/Focus for a loaner. And this was a months long repair(s). I’ve heard the same with Chevy. I ended up declining and driving my own car.

It is something I didn’t consider pre GT350, but I definitely do now. I don’t think it would stop me from getting a C8, but I think I’d talk to the dealer and see if they could agree to put you in a decent loaner and not a stripped Cruze or something like that.
I felt the same about nice loaners and thought BMW was always a step up....until I got a FWD X1 and experienced torque steer from a FWD 4 cyl bmw. Words cannot express how quickly my dafuq face appeared.... YUCK. I had to double take to see if I was in an uglier version of a CRV...
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      12-02-2020, 11:33 AM   #1111
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Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Ford, Cadillac and Chevy are the only ones that have ever done this to me. I don't get it. It doesn't piss me off, but it is ridiculous IMO. Especially when its clear I'm (others) arent a teenager looking for a quick joyride. I've never had this problem with MB, Audi, Porsche and of course BMW.

https://www.stillwatermotors.com/new...6a17dbd1ea.htm
Same here. When the 2010 Camaro came out in the summer, My dad and I found a dealer who would custom order us one at MSRP with 8 weeks to delivery. Eight weeks pass, and we pay off a service tech there to let us know when it comes in, because the salesman was being elusive and vague. Car comes in, same exact build as ours, and they say that's not our car, and our car is still on the way, and that a lot of cars are specced the exact same way down to every option and MSRP that we ordered ours with, so it was coincidence that the exact same car was on the lot at the exact same time ours was supposed to be. They told us they didn't know when ours was coming in, and to buy the one they have would cost a 10k markup, so we got our 5k deposit back and never came back for another Camaro or anything else.

Ended up dodging a bullet in that case, but the point remains. I've never had this issue with any foreign brand, only American brand dealerships. I feel bad for brand loyalists who regularly put up with this crap.
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      12-02-2020, 11:44 AM   #1112
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Same here. When the 2010 Camaro came out in the summer, My dad and I found a dealer who would custom order us one at MSRP with 8 weeks to delivery. Eight weeks pass, and we pay off a service tech there to let us know when it comes in, because the salesman was being elusive and vague. Car comes in, same exact build as ours, and they say that's not our car, and our car is still on the way, and that a lot of cars are specced the exact same way down to every option and MSRP that we ordered ours with, so it was coincidence that the exact same car was on the lot at the exact same time ours was supposed to be. They told us they didn't know when ours was coming in, and to buy the one they have would cost a 10k markup, so we got our 5k deposit back and never came back for another Camaro or anything else.

Ended up dodging a bullet in that case, but the point remains. I've never had this issue with any foreign brand, only American brand dealerships. I feel bad for brand loyalists who regularly put up with this crap.
That would piss me off. What a bunch of a@$holes.

Agreed, it seems like the Ford, especially Shelby guys put up with the most. I don’t get it and won’t put up with it either.
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      12-02-2020, 11:45 AM   #1113
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I felt the same about nice loaners and thought BMW was always a step up....until I got a FWD X1 and experienced torque steer from a FWD 4 cyl bmw. Words cannot express how quickly my dafuq face appeared.... YUCK. I had to double take to see if I was in an uglier version of a CRV...
Trust me, still better than a very used base Fiesta.

But, I get your point.
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      12-02-2020, 11:46 AM   #1114
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Trust me, still better than a very used base Fiesta.

But, I get your point.
Lol can't argue there. Was just a moment for me, a realization of the downfall. And here we are, two years later, a forum divided over the polarizing changes...
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      12-02-2020, 11:48 AM   #1115
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Depends on the dealer. One of my ford dealers gives their Shelby customers enterprise rentals where they usually get nicely equipped 4-cylinder Mustangs, Fusions, or F150's. But as always YMMV.
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      12-02-2020, 12:15 PM   #1116
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minn19

I was looking for this thread I came across and found it.

Here was a C7 horror story that someone posted on the f30 forums.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1720783
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      12-02-2020, 12:24 PM   #1117
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minn19

I was looking for this thread I came across and found it.

Here was a C7 horror story that someone posted on the f30 forums.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1720783
That sucks. The timeframes sound very similar to one of my GT350 horror stories. Except for my dealer was awesome (the service staff any way), unfortunately FoMoCo isn't.
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      12-02-2020, 01:50 PM   #1118
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That sucks. The timeframes sound very similar to one of my GT350 horror stories. Except for my dealer was awesome (the service staff any way), unfortunately FoMoCo isn't.
Yeah I mean Ive read plenty of F8x horror stories too.

Hell really the only thing that keeps me from just buying another F80 is the crank hub issues.

I could probably get over the sound and numb steering for the styling. Not much in the market performs like it for the price.
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      12-02-2020, 01:59 PM   #1119
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Yeah I mean Ive read plenty of F8x horror stories too.

Hell really the only thing that keeps me from just buying another F80 is the crank hub issues.

I could probably get over the sound and numb steering for the styling. Not much in the market performs like it for the price.
Just fix the hub. I got the VTT full kit over black friday. Install should run slightly above 2 grand.
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      12-02-2020, 02:00 PM   #1120
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Yeah I mean Ive read plenty of F8x horror stories too.

Hell really the only thing that keeps me from just buying another F80 is the crank hub issues.

I could probably get over the sound and numb steering for the styling. Not much in the market performs like it for the price.
Yup, they all have them including Porsche (Nick Murray anyone).

Part of it is the frequency and how the manufacturer takes care of the customer. The US manufacturers lag the premium German brands in every metric here unfortunately. Which, wouldn't necessarily be a problem except for GM, Ford (sort of Dodge) have prices that are as much if not more than the Germans now. They definitely have the performance to match, but they need to up their game in a bunch of ways to take better care of these buyers IMO.

Reliability, looks and performance are not the F80 variants problem, for the most part to me. You'd be bored with it immediately and being looking elsewhere pretty quick.
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      12-02-2020, 02:04 PM   #1121
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Just fix the hub. I got the VTT full kit over black friday. Install should run slightly above 2 grand.
IMO that is a heck of a lot to have to additionally put into a car that is already selling at inflated values due to covid.

Is that even a 100% fix? I am not completely up to date but I remember seeing some of the fixes were failing.
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      12-02-2020, 02:31 PM   #1122
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IMO that is a heck of a lot to have to additionally put into a car that is already selling at inflated values due to covid.

Is that even a 100% fix? I am not completely up to date but I remember seeing some of the fixes were failing.
dmk08

It's as close to a 100% fix right now (100% is hard to do without the resources of BMW). As far as I've read, most of these guys doing this are running 800-1000hp cars with no failures related to the SCH. Blown engines related to other issues? Yes but not SCH.

I got my car before this pricing silliness set it so I'm good. My shop quoted me $3K for the VTT fix (with parts) and $4k with the 4 pin SCH fix. The VTT kit also includes the CBC.

There's a guy I follow on youtube that runs the VTT and has turned his car into a track car. No issues so far and his car has crossed 100K miles.

Yes, its not cheap, but this is not a cheap car either and the engine costs about 15-20K. You're right to be concerned about the SCH. Even on stock cars, looks like the fail rate is about 3% (I did some number crunching on the poll that was conducted)
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