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      12-03-2020, 06:52 AM   #1145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Yup, they all have them including Porsche (Nick Murray anyone).

Part of it is the frequency and how the manufacturer takes care of the customer. The US manufacturers lag the premium German brands in every metric here unfortunately. Which, wouldn't necessarily be a problem except for GM, Ford (sort of Dodge) have prices that are as much if not more than the Germans now. They definitely have the performance to match, but they need to up their game in a bunch of ways to take better care of these buyers IMO.

Reliability, looks and performance are not the F80 variants problem, for the most part to me. You'd be bored with it immediately and being looking elsewhere pretty quick.
While I love my M4cs, I have to say it has been my most unreliable BMW thus far. While all my previous ///M have been practilay bullet proof as combined daily drivers and track cars, not so much for my M4cs that suffered multiple issues that cost me several track days in less than 2-years of ownership:

Failed front EDC sensor
Charge pipe popped out
A/C compressor failed
Stuck exhaust valve
Leaking intercooler and cracked expansion tank

The last issue had me without my car for 6 weeks in the middle of the track season due to parts being BO and shipping issues due to COVID. Delaer was great and gave me a nice X3 loaner, but I still lost a lot of track days.
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      12-03-2020, 07:01 AM   #1146
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Originally Posted by MFNATIK View Post
The thing the M3 has going for it is it's the most winning DTM car of all time. Even though that was like 30+ years ago, it's laid the groundwork for BMW Motorsports. The name itself is highly recognizable in the car world. It needs no introduction. It created its own league, it WAS THE benchmark. I could go on and on, but you guys get it. Not the same could be said of any other model from it's competitors. Let's see if they manage to ruin all that within 1 generation or will they be able to recover?
Fixed that for you.

I find MB surpassed BMW in motor racing. They are completely dominating F1, the top of motorsport and are involved in many other series. They focus on performance, making strong statements such as setting many 'ring lap records.
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      12-03-2020, 07:11 AM   #1147
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Originally Posted by GERMAN M3 View Post
And Ford is discontinuing the GT350 for 2021.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...or-2021/?_gl=1*1tdi8bm*_ga*YW1wLTNLaTNUeV9sYmFFN05QMWpjT2JOTXF5e DA5dTIyUTNLS19NdkppZjFoNmI5dkVUdGpTT2JxWTVqZ1NDSUZ xSUQ.
But introducing this. I’d happily run one on road & track –



The Americans are improving with every generation and addressing enthusiasts like never before. Numerous track ready stock options under full warranty, track prep guides, reasonably priced. 15 years ago I wouldn’t have imagined it.

New Blackwings get mag wheels, proper seats, V8, and manual?? ATS/CTS styling critiques from M snobs are a good laugh now.

M is running from a fight. Current bosses figured they’d take decades of legit reputation and clout and play that to the image crowd. I hope they fail miserably.
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      12-03-2020, 07:14 AM   #1148
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I'll skip this generation electric since I find it is too much in its infancy. Not enough range and insufficient charging speed/infrastructure on the street and at race tracks for it to work for me as a dual use car. But it is quite possible that my next purchase in ~4 years will be electric, they are progressing fast.
Last time out father & son showed up with a .1 RS and a Taycan. RS ran all day, Taycan not one session.

End of day they were plotting a substantial reroute for a charge on the way home because the Taycan wasn't going to make it.

Not there yet, maybe next gen.
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      12-03-2020, 07:21 AM   #1149
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
End of day they were plotting a substantial reroute for a charge on the way home because the Taycan wasn't going to make it.

Not there yet, maybe next gen.
This was my biggest worry for the Taycan. Not the charge on a road trip, as chargers can be found off the highways, but how badly range gets affected when driving the car how its meant to be driven, hard. I remember the original Matt Farah review where he took it through the mountains and lost a lot of range by pushing it. Many of the backroads I travel to are not close to chargers and some even go through the mountains and wooded areas towards and in Pennsylvania and are about an hour to two or more out from my house with decent miles. I would be worried to drive a Taycan how I drive my other vehicles through those roads purely just because its hard to predict range and charging availability.
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      12-03-2020, 07:26 AM   #1150
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
While I love my M4cs, I have to say it has been my most unreliable BMW thus far. While all my previous ///M have been practilay bullet proof as combined daily drivers and track cars, not so much for my M4cs that suffered multiple issues that cost me several track days in less than 2-years of ownership:

Failed front EDC sensor
Charge pipe popped out
A/C compressor failed
Stuck exhaust valve
Leaking intercooler

The last issue had me without my car for 6 weeks in the middle of the track season due to parts being BO and shipping issues due to COVID. Delaer was great and gave me a nice X3 loaner, but I still lost a lot of track days.
Strangely same here. My brake fade/failure at the end of the straight really caught me off guard (never happened in any other BMW to me much less an ///M). Then my MPHAS/BMWNA fiasco and couple of other little things. All told probably laid up for a month.

My dealer was awesome also, they really helped me get a nice settlement from BMWNA. But, had they just taken back the CS for me to get into a M2C they'd probably still have me as a customer. I bought/leased 10 cars from BMW, half of them Ms over a 5-6 year period and they wouldn't even entertain it. So, I took my business elsewhere.

Spoiler alert, you are going to love your 911, but I'm guessing you already know this.

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      12-03-2020, 08:17 AM   #1151
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
This was my biggest worry for the Taycan. Not the charge on a road trip, as chargers can be found off the highways, but how badly range gets affected when driving the car how its meant to be driven, hard. I remember the original Matt Farah review where he took it through the mountains and lost a lot of range by pushing it. Many of the backroads I travel to are not close to chargers and some even go through the mountains and wooded areas towards and in Pennsylvania and are about an hour to two or more out from my house with decent miles. I would be worried to drive a Taycan how I drive my other vehicles through those roads purely just because its hard to predict range and charging availability.
And the Porsche charging infrastructure isn't like Tesla's. I think the closest available Porsche charge was like 50 miles away. There are multiple Tesla stations in the vicinity even though it's out in the boonies.
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      12-03-2020, 08:32 AM   #1152
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
But introducing this. I’d happily run one on road & track –

The Americans are improving with every generation and addressing enthusiasts like never before. Numerous track ready stock options under full warranty, track prep guides, reasonably priced. 15 years ago I wouldn’t have imagined it.

New Blackwings get mag wheels, proper seats, V8, and manual?? ATS/CTS styling critiques from M snobs are a good laugh now.

M is running from a fight. Current bosses figured they’d take decades of legit reputation and clout and play that to the image crowd. I hope they fail miserably.
Totally agree on this. I used to laugh at the American marques. Since the E46 M3, I’ve always felt that BMW has been half relying on its pedigree and history to sell cars. I initially thought that it was because they were pivoting their strategy (they were in F1 with the E92), half expecting that they were going to really up the bar and continue to distance themselves from the average car manufacturer. That has not been the case sadly, instead they are slapping M badges like stickers on every lineup they have.

MB is pretty impressive. They are taking the fight to Porsche. Not quite there yet, but they are closing in.
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      12-03-2020, 08:44 AM   #1153
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Originally Posted by CT_M3 View Post
Totally agree on this. I used to laugh at the American marques. Since the E46 M3, I’ve always felt that BMW has been half relying on its pedigree and history to sell cars. I initially thought that it was because they were pivoting their strategy (they were in F1 with the E92), half expecting that they were going to really up the bar and continue to distance themselves from the average car manufacturer. That has not been the case sadly, instead they are slapping M badges like stickers on every lineup they have.

MB is pretty impressive. They are taking the fight to Porsche. Not quite there yet, but they are closing in.
Yeah, MB sure are. M isn't competing in the Mustang/Camaro/Corvette space, they're not competing in the RS/GT R/supercar space, they're glaringly absent from everywhere performance innovation and progress is occurring

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      12-03-2020, 08:53 AM   #1154
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Yeah, MB sure are. M isn't competing in the Mustang/Camaro/Corvette space, they're not competing in the RS/GT R/supercar space, they're glaringly absent from everywhere performance innovation and progress is occurring

And it's not only show, it has plenty of go

Beating the GT2RS but not quite the GT2RS-MR

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      12-03-2020, 09:08 AM   #1155
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Fixed that for you.

I find MB surpassed BMW in motor racing. They are completely dominating F1, the top of motorsport and are involved in many other series. They focus on performance, making strong statements such as setting many 'ring lap records.
...and they give us videos like this to properly geek out

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      12-03-2020, 09:24 AM   #1156
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Great videos! MB's sedan styling just has to come around a little. The coupes are beautiful.

Back up a minute, where's the brooding guy with tats and party gal in the ads?

Why aren't they following the new BMW ad format??

As I stated in an earlier post, I fear that BMW as a brand, will not be where its at for us. F8x/E9x was peak 'M'.
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      12-03-2020, 09:31 AM   #1157
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And it's not only show, it has plenty of go

Beating the GT2RS but not quite the GT2RS-MR
It's a monster. Just watched its big brother the other weekend. One of the sweetest sounding cars in all classes.

Turner still racing M6 GT3's. most outdated car on the grid. M4 GT4 (Michelin Pilot Challenge) almost the same story now. Enjoy the M8's in GTLM, but connection to anything real world, transferrable development & tech to the production car, not really. New M4 GT3 doesn't arrive until 2022.

I'm old enough to remember when M motorsport informed production car development.

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      12-03-2020, 09:32 AM   #1158
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
It's a monster. Just watched its big brother the other weekend. One of the sweetest sounding cars in all classes.

Turner still racing M6 GT3's. most outdated car on the grid. M4 GT4 (Michelin Pilot Challenge) almost the same story now. Enjoy the M8's in GTLM, but connection to anything real world, transferrable development & tech to the production car, not really. New M4 GT3 doesn't arrive until 2022.

I'm old enough to remember when M motorsport informed production car development.

Is that the M3 on the far right handside?
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      12-03-2020, 09:36 AM   #1159
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Is that the M3 on the far right handside?
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      12-03-2020, 09:48 AM   #1160
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Is that the M3 on the far right handside?
LoL, this is why you don't copy others. All the new tail lights are borrowed from Lexus. This has happened to me on the streets when seeing the G20 from afar. Same for the X1 and X2.
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      12-03-2020, 09:55 AM   #1161
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LoL, this is why you don't copy others. All the new tail lights are borrowed from Lexus. This has happened to me on the streets when seeing the G20 from afar. Same for the X1 and X2.
Agree, its really sad they I have now mistakenly confused a few new Lexus IS/RC's and even the Acura ILX which has similar taillights, for a new 3-series on multiple occasions.
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      12-03-2020, 02:36 PM   #1162
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Agree, its really sad they I have now mistakenly confused a few new Lexus IS/RC's and even the Acura ILX which has similar taillights, for a new 3-series on multiple occasions.
I legitimately thought that was a G80/G82.
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      12-03-2020, 02:43 PM   #1163
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As if the new M3/4 weren't ugly enough, BMW will now offer you hideous Sao Paulo Yellow rims to add to your buck tooth beaver.
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      12-03-2020, 02:52 PM   #1164
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Spoiler alert, you are going to love your 911, but I'm guessing you already know this.
Yes, I am pretty sure I will.

The section between 7:04 and 12:41 of the video below summarizes pretty well how I feel right now ...and yes, do watch all the way to 12:41

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      12-03-2020, 03:02 PM   #1165
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As if the new M3/4 weren't ugly enough, BMW will now offer you hideous Sao Paulo Yellow rims to add to your buck tooth beaver.
The wheels in themselves are awesome, but that colour scheme though
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      12-03-2020, 03:17 PM   #1166
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As if the new M3/4 weren't ugly enough, BMW will now offer you hideous Sao Paulo Yellow rims to add to your buck tooth beaver.
This is a great example/evidence of where BMW is trying to make up for its shortcomings with this type of silly bling. Just not practical for daily driving and definitely for track. The wheel design is cool but that color!

Its like that guy in your PE class whose parents got him those neon, expensive Nikes. All I can say is you better be tops or you'll be the laughing stock of everyone.
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