Carbon Drive Shaft vs. Steel

[K81M3]

Hi All,

Just joined this forum and first post and all. I'm sure this topic has been covered and I've seen many articles of the change happening. However, I'm in the market for a M3 standard (non-comp pack) and very close to doing a factory order, however learning about the above and having driven a M3 for the weekend on a '16 plate over a year ago, I'm starting to wonder if it will be the same, and thinking whether I should get a used one instead. I was so impressed with the '16 plate that I want once that will drive just like it. I recently also test drove a comp pack with a steel drive shaft but was hard to make a comparison as it didn't feel like the standard in many ways anyway, which over many things it's not meant to.

If I buy a new factory order standard M3, it will certainly come with a steel drive shaft, and I don't know how much this will affect the performance/weight etc. given what I've read that ''the steel driveshaft result in a beefier curb weight, but it would also mean more direct weight for the engine to move, making it less rev-happy than before, however slightly'' - so its the less rev happy bit that will be an issue for, if it noticeably exists.

So question to you all, anyone here with a standard non comp M3 '67 plate onwards (as change came in Aug '17 I believe) notice any difference. Or does anyone have any direct sources or experience of driving both.

Lengthy read I know, however would appreciate your input or any info that will help me decide as I need to order soon or continue looking for the ideal used. Thanks All in advance

[joooiiiiii]

Such a controversial question and lots of back and forth between the F80 forum.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

If it were me, I'd still get it. 444HP is still going to be fun and if you feel like the steel shaft is such a significant difference--do some engine upgrades to pick up the pace.

Honestly, I didn't even know it had a carbon driveshaft when I ordered my car--so bleh.

[dopper99]

From what I understand the reason for the steel prop shaft is because the M3/4 needs an Otto particle filter. But I didn't think this was coming in until May.

What makes they are fitting steel prop shafts already?

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by joooiiiiii

Such a controversial question and lots of back and forth between the F80 forum.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

If it were me, I'd still get it. 444HP is still going to be fun and if you feel like the steel shaft is such a significant difference--do some engine upgrades to pick up the pace.

Honestly, I didn't even know it had a carbon driveshaft when I ordered my car--so bleh.

Nit picking here but 444hp is only with a Competition Pack car. The op wants a non comp pack car.

[joooiiiiii]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Nit picking here but 444hp is only with a Competition Pack car. The op wants a non comp pack car.

Shit, read right through that. Well shit...that sucks.

[K81M3]

Originally Posted by dopper99

From what I understand the reason for the steel prop shaft is because the M3/4 needs an Otto particle filter. But I didn't think this was coming in until May.

What makes they are fitting steel prop shafts already?

I wasn't sure as many articles can be misleading, so I rang a dealer who is currently selling a 67' plate pre-reg standard which was built in Sep 2017 and registered Nov'17, he checked and got back to me and confirmed it had a steel drive shaft. But yeah I was too under this impression, so may have been another filter I don't know. Might need to check and verify with a few other sources I guess

[K81M3]

Originally Posted by joooiiiiii

Such a controversial question and lots of back and forth between the F80 forum.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

If it were me, I'd still get it. 444HP is still going to be fun and if you feel like the steel shaft is such a significant difference--do some engine upgrades to pick up the pace.

Honestly, I didn't even know it had a carbon driveshaft when I ordered my car--so bleh.

Yeah true and with the standard being 425HP, but I'm not one to do upgrades - just a boring factory standard sort of guy I'm afraid - ha

[dopper99]

Apparently people that have driven both 444hp and 425hp cars cannot tell a blind bit of difference!

Interesting about the steel prop shaft. Just been reading stuff on the web.....
Yes you are correct that it would appear that they have already been installed into new cars. Didn't realise that. I think it's to make room for the forthcoming emissions filter.

[K81M3]

Originally Posted by joooiiiiii

Such a controversial question and lots of back and forth between the F80 forum.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411862

If it were me, I'd still get it. 444HP is still going to be fun and if you feel like the steel shaft is such a significant difference--do some engine upgrades to pick up the pace.

Honestly, I didn't even know it had a carbon driveshaft when I ordered my car--so bleh.

Wow just read through the above link - 31 pages and no outcome on whether it's actually in production other than the dealer I spoke to, and whether they've put the car up on the ramp to check or went by the nov'17 date I have no idea now

At least I've learned many interesting facts of the two reading through most of that

[K81M3]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Apparently people that have driven both 444hp and 425hp cars cannot tell a blind bit of difference!

Interesting about the steel prop shaft. Just been reading stuff on the web.....
Yes you are correct that it would appear that they have already been installed into new cars. Didn't realise that. I think it's to make room for the forthcoming emissions filter.

Yeah I couldn't tell the power difference between the 444hp and 425hp either, just remember the 425hp '16 plate feeling different in power delivery to the recent 444hp I drove, but I'm no expert so couldn't even start why, but questioned whether it could have been to do with the CF vs. Steel debate?

[///Mongo]

If it didn't make any difference BMW would have installed a steel driveshaft from day 1 and saved a few shekels

[RalphyBMW]

Looking at RealOEM, December build F80 Still has the CFK propshaft introduced 3/1/16
I think the dealer was full of ?.

Same looking at the M4.

If the steel prop is now in production then it's very recent.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by KSC

Yeah I couldn't tell the power difference between the 444hp and 425hp either, just remember the 425hp '16 plate feeling different in power delivery to the recent 444hp I drove, but I'm no expert so couldn't even start why, but questioned whether it could have been to do with the CF vs. Steel debate?

Ok, lots of people on m3cutters have mentioned about pre-LCI and LCI power differences.
I think it's pretty well known the early cars developed more torque in the lower gears. However, this made the car a little lary and hard to get the power down.
Later cars have had software tweaks to limit torque slightly and make the car more drivable.
It is possible to get a software update for older cars and many people have had this done. Virtually everyone say it's improved the car for them making it more drivable and gives the impression of much better traction although one or two liked the more aggressive delivery of the older car.

I've got the later software in my 16 plate CP ... and I certainly wouldn't want any more torque, not in this car!

I'm not entirely sure when this software update was put on the standard car, but deffo all CP's had the newer software.

[SO17]

My M4 has the CF propshaft and it was built week beginning 18th December 2017.

[K81M3]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Ok, lots of people on m3cutters have mentioned about pre-LCI and LCI power differences.
I think it's pretty well known the early cars developed more torque in the lower gears. However, this made the car a little lary and hard to get the power down.
Later cars have had software tweaks to limit torque slightly and make the car more drivable.
It is possible to get a software update for older cars and many people have had this done. Virtually everyone say it's improved the car for them making it more drivable and gives the impression of much better traction although one or two liked the more aggressive delivery of the older car.

I've got the later software in my 16 plate CP ... and I certainly wouldn't want any more torque, not in this car!

I'm not entirely sure when this software update was put on the standard car, but deffo all CP's had the newer software.

Sorry for sounding daft, but what is pre-LCI and LCI - need to find out when this was done, the 2016 model i drove was registered in April 2016, so was the pre LCI?

[t5pilot]

Originally Posted by K81M3

Sorry for sounding daft, but what is pre-LCI and LCI - need to find out when this was done, the 2016 model i drove was registered in April 2016, so was the pre LCI?

No problem mate - LCI is for 'Life Cycle Impulse'. In other words a facelift.

I believe the M3/M4 Lci's were built april 2017 onwards, but I would stand corrected if someone knows different. Rear lights are the dead giveaway. Pre-LCI, reverse lamps on the top of the cluster. LCI reverse lamps on the bottom.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by t5pilot

No problem mate - LCI is for 'Life Cycle Impulse'. In other words a facelift.

I believe the M3/M4 Lci's were built april 2017 onwards, but I would stand corrected if someone knows different. Rear lights are the dead giveaway. Pre-LCI, reverse lamps on the top of the cluster. LCI reverse lamps on the bottom.

Nope, my M3 is an LCI and its a June 2016. I believe from memory the M3 LCI came out in around Sept 2015.

The M4 LCI only came out last year.

[dopper99]

The 15 plate is a Jun 15 (Pre-LCI) and the 65 plate is Sep 15 (LCI).

Notice the different rear lights.

[allinon72]

Originally Posted by K81M3

I wasn't sure as many articles can be misleading, so I rang a dealer who is currently selling a 67' plate pre-reg standard which was built in Sep 2017 and registered Nov'17, he checked and got back to me and confirmed it had a steel drive shaft. But yeah I was too under this impression, so may have been another filter I don't know. Might need to check and verify with a few other sources I guess

The shaft is very hard to see on the ground...and the likelihood that the dealer took the time to put it on the lift is practically zero.

I think with the M3 ending production soon, the M4 will be the only vehicles with a steel shaft.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Nope, my M3 is an LCI and its a June 2016. I believe from memory the M3 LCI came out in around Sept 2015.

The M4 LCI only came out last year.

And to add even more confusion there was an 'LCI 2' on the M3.

More changes made early 2017; my car is a March 2017 and has the new LED icons with the LCI black seat badges etc, there were more changes AGAIN in April 2017 when the iDrive 6 touchscreen was added.

Crazy situation.

[Wills2]

Yes they have done a lot to the M3, it had two main updates the first when the 3 series was LCI'd and the second when the 4 series was LCI'd.

On top of that various model years also brought in improvements/changes and on top of that the I-step level is constantly being changed.

[K81M3]

Interesting, so the one I've put a deposit down on was registered May 2017. Seemed it had the new idrive - but didn't check it extensively was interested more in the performance. As mentioned having driven the April 2016 one - I found the drive of this 2017 one not as torque and rev happy, but kind of got the feeling as the car started to warm up it drove better (is that just in my head?), but not sure. It's the software updates that I question, as I actually prefer how the 2016 one drove, and wondering if the software updates mentioned by 'dopper99' above plays an effect to this?