S55 vs. S65

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You can't take him (..nor I am Earl) seriously. I realized that after only reading a few of their posts.

i cant take serious how you can go from a M3 to a 435i. if you wanted something new grab a C63 AMG or 911 Porsche.

with that said. we all need to think about people view points. i have view points about the car, as do you.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by Boss330

The times I posted for 0-150 MPH was from the same source as yours, C&D... The 0-1000m times show the E46 doing 139 MPH and the E9x doing 143 MPH.

I'm sorry but my original post that referenced the C&D 0-150mph makes no mention of the 0-1000m, don't know or agree with those standing 1000m speeds. The E92 easily has a 5-7mph 1/4mile trap speed advantage over the E46. You want us to believe that in the 2nd half of the 1000m's the E46 is closing or just maintaining on the E92?

As someone who has owned every generation M3 including both E9X sedan and current coupe as well as the 1M, I have nothing but love for all of them. Seems to me that you have some sort of bias against the E9x for some reason which makes it difficult to discuss. I should have stopped when you brought out the YouTube kill videos to support your claim.

[Killerfish2012]

The current course of discussion reminds me of the late 90's car and driver forum. Back then acceleration times really helped sell sports/sporty cars, so everyone waited for the latest issue of car and driver so we could all argue times. Nowadays though, the Automotive world is changing. Currently gas mileage matters more and more, as govenerment regulations require vehicles with higher gas mileage.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i cant take serious how you can go from a M3 to a 435i. if you wanted something new grab a C63 AMG or 911 Porsche.

with that said. we all need to think about people view points. i have view points about the car, as do you.

Corrected....335i!

Well the answer is simple (..aside from the fact that I'm incredibly fickle when it comes to cars and I've already explained this to you more times than I can remember that I've already owned many E46 and E9X M cars; I got bored!)....


....I refuse....ABSOLUTELY REFUSE....to drive an automatic car (..C63 AMG) regardless of how good it looks to me and the only Porsche that I would spend my hard earned coin on - a GT2 or GT3 - I cannot afford yet! The 335i makes a good filler car until I can get my hands on an F80. I sure as hell wasn't going to pony up for A FOURTH E9X ///M car when the new car was less than a year away. Surely you can comprehend that logic; maybe not!

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Corrected....335i!

Well the answer is simple (..aside from the fact that I'm incredibly fickle when it comes to cars and I've already explained this to you more times than I can remember that I've already owned many E46 and E9X M cars; I got bored!)....


....I refuse....ABSOLUTELY REFUSE....to drive an automatic car (..C63 AMG) regardless of how good it looks to me and the only Porsche that I would spend my hard earned coin on - a GT2 or GT3 - I cannot afford yet! The 335i makes a good filler car until I can get my hands on an F80. I sure as hell wasn't going to pony up for A FOURTH E9X ///M car when the new car was less than a year away. Surely you can comprehend that logic; maybe not!

i actually don't see the logic in even buying more than one E9x m3s. all i know its that i would rather have a m3 over a 335i. faster and way better sounding engine. not to mention it looks better. of course you can mod a 335i. but that a different topic.

idk how a 335 is more exciting than a M3 (stock for stock).

also i agree on the auto thing. but i do like DCT, which is much better than the typical auto.

so yes i do not see the logic in getting a less exciting car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i actually don't see the logic in even buying more than one E9x m3s. all i know its that i would rather have a m3 over a 335i. faster and way better sounding engine. not to mention it looks better. of course you can mod a 335i. but that a different topic.

As to your first point, I'll give you that.........kinda! Basically my reasoning behind my multiple M3's are as follows:

• 2003 PY M3: Traded for an '04 G35 because my fiancée at the time had money control issues.
• 2005 IB M3: G35 was stolen and I decided to buy what I liked despite her not 'agreeing' with the decision.
• 2008 IB E90 M3: Traded for a 2010 coupe; I didn't really like the sedan. I purchased it because I wanted out of my 2006 330i and it was more of an 'on the spot' purchase because I got a great deal.
• 2010 IB E92 M3: Sold to a family member.
• 2011.5 AW E92 M3: Traded for a 2013 X5 because I needed something to tow my race bike.

...and I ended up selling the X5, so the 335i is a filler car. I considered buying a 2013 Frozen Black M3, but decided against it because......it was yet another E9X and it was DCT. I guess my point is simply this: don't assume so much!!!!!

Originally Posted by Ezio

idk how a 335 is more exciting than a M3 (stock for stock).

I don't know how somebody could get tired of fucking a hot movie star chick either, but it happens all of the time. Sometimes you just need something new.

Originally Posted by Ezio

so yes i do not see the logic in getting a less exciting car.

See the post above.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't know how somebody could get tired of fucking a hot movie star chick either, but it happens all of the time. Sometimes you just need something new.

.

that was well put, and i understand!

[tightie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Rubbish. Provide your "claim" and evidence to the guys pushing 700+ crank hp with supercharged E92s and running them hard. Heck even the stock DCT transmission is taking this kind of extreme power and torque

Yeah but do they last?

[435iaffair]

Originally Posted by tightie

Yeah but do they last?

I've had relatively highly modded cars before and the fear of something possibly breaking at the track or during a wot pull on the freeway is what wore me out. Factory and/or mildly modded cars for me from now on. I guess I'm getting old.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Boss330

There is a 10km/h difference on the E9x 0-1000m trap speed compared with the "real world" data...

In your simulation you end up at 238km/h where the official trap speed is 228km/h. If that part is wrong, then the 0-150MPH time is quite a bit off as well

In the link I posted prior was the only non BMW test I have seen for a 0-1000m time for the E92 M3, it did not list a speed. Which "real world" data are you referring to? Also, any deviations present from a true real world AVERAGE result would almost for sure be duplicated on the E46 M3 simulation. Relative results with simulation are generally speaking more accurate than absolute results. Also, generally speaking, CarTest exhibits time to distance results are more accurate than speed at a given distance (with the 1/4 mi trap being one instance of speed at a particular distance).

Originally Posted by Boss330

BTW, I also respect your input on these forums

Right back at ya!

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Boss330

extensive use of CFRP

This point has been discussed prior. I don't call it "extensive" myself since none was used structurally in body. The new CFRP as compared to the E92 M3 is roof brace, drive shaft and trunk lid. BMW marketing I believe calls it extensive and also call it i3/i8 derived, the latter is clearly false no matter what diction one chooses.

[///Mangler]

'Length Vs Girth'

T

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

FYI, caranddriver together with most magazines, were really really cooking their accelerations times last decade. Especially in the early part of the decade that you are citing. For instance they were all reporting 0-60 times using rollout, without disclosing this.

That is a bit too strong of an accusation. Car and Driver (and I think all US magazines) use a 1 foot roll out (timer starts after car moves 1 foot) because this is a US standard in drag racing. It does make a difference in comparing results vs. European magazines. For a car like the F82 M4 this makes time to speed and time to distance specs about 0.3 seconds better overall but it does not affect speeds at a given distance in any appreciable fashion.

[ruff]

My concern for the F8x is it seems to be unknowingly following in the footsteps of AMG and Japanese performance cars, while in the process distancing itself from its M lineage. Even Corvette has successfully remained true to its small block lineage, despite stringent fuel standards and new technologies, which fuels its mystique among young and old enthusiasts alike. What set M cars and to a greater extent Porsche and Ferrari apart from every other manufacture was their race car inspired NA engines, stratospheric red line, Valhalla exhaust note and scalpel like steering response and handling. With M3's moving to FI, it becomes another FI car in a sea of FI powered cars now distanced by the GTR and Porsche Turbo. Duckworth said, "turbochargers are for people who can't build engines." A bit harsh but the same argument made from the inception of this forum against Japanese sports cars, AMG and later, BMW's own turbo charged engines. I am certain the F8x will be a fine sports car. I just think in the process, the M division will continue lose a bit of luster and prestige among true sports car enthusiasts.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by ruff

My concern for the F8x is it seems to be unknowingly following in the footsteps of AMG and Japanese performance cars, while in the process distancing itself from its M lineage. Even Corvette has successfully remained true to its small block lineage, despite stringent fuel standards and new technologies, which fuels its mystique among young and old enthusiasts alike. What set M cars and to a greater extent Porsche and Ferrari apart from every other manufacture was their race car inspired NA engines, stratospheric red line, Valhalla exhaust note and scalpel like steering response and handling. With M3's moving to FI, it becomes another FI car in a sea of FI powered cars now distanced by the GTR and Porsche Turbo. Duckworth said, "turbochargers are for people who can't build engines." A bit harsh but the same argument made from the inception of this forum against Japanese sports cars, AMG and later, BMW's own turbo charged engines. I am certain the F8x will be a fine sports car. I just think in the process, the M division will continue lose a bit of luster and prestige among true sports car enthusiasts.

thats why i went with a M car.

about that quote though. i think its fair to say they can make a N/A engine to have better MPG and better power. but its just easier and cheaper go turbo route. not to mention Europe has to many government regulations and taxes. some places people get taxed on displacement of engine. a 3.0L engine sounds good to many people.

i think the US is like the only place that can still make "real" n/a engines. other than the exotics

that new corvette has a 6.2L V8 that is going to get good MPG. but lets be honest, corvette is either a V8 or bust!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ruff

My concern for the F8x is it seems to be unknowingly following in the footsteps of AMG and Japanese performance cars, while in the process distancing itself from its M lineage. Even Corvette has successfully remained true to its small block lineage, despite stringent fuel standards and new technologies, which fuels its mystique among young and old enthusiasts alike. What set M cars and to a greater extent Porsche and Ferrari apart from every other manufacture was their race car inspired NA engines, stratospheric red line, Valhalla exhaust note and scalpel like steering response and handling. With M3's moving to FI, it becomes another FI car in a sea of FI powered cars now distanced by the GTR and Porsche Turbo. Duckworth said, "turbochargers are for people who can't build engines." A bit harsh but the same argument made from the inception of this forum against Japanese sports cars, AMG and later, BMW's own turbo charged engines. I am certain the F8x will be a fine sports car. I just think in the process, the M division will continue lose a bit of luster and prestige among true sports car enthusiasts.

Long time no see ruff. It's nice to see you back on the board again. I'm sure that lucid, swamp2 and some of the other old guard will appreciate your resurgence.

I must ask though - in an effort to get you dialoging again - what is your opinion of Ferrari's decision to go turbo? Surely that will infringe on the heritage of their tried and true race inspired N/A engine.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Long time no see ruff. It's nice to see you back on the board again. I'm sure that lucid, swamp2 and some of the other old guard will appreciate your resurgence.

I must ask though - in an effort to get you dialoging again - what is your opinion of Ferrari's decision to go turbo? Surely that will infringe on the heritage of their tried and true race inspired N/A engine.

I think it is sad. The visceral sound and fury of a Ferrari screaming to red line is the pinnacle sports care experience.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by ruff

I think it is sad. The visceral sound and fury of a Ferrari screaming to red line is the pinnacle sports care experience.

Will it not scream with a turbo? More of a holler perhaps?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by swamp2

That is a bit too strong of an accusation. Car and Driver (and I think all US magazines) use a 1 foot roll out (timer starts after car moves 1 foot) because this is a US standard in drag racing. It does make a difference in comparing results vs. European magazines. For a car like the F82 M4 this makes time to speed and time to distance specs about 0.3 seconds better overall but it does not affect speeds at a given distance in any appreciable fashion.

Trust me, there were a lot of things that car and driver was doing! the now defunct edmunds insideline did an article on standardizing acceleration testing: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...nd-trucks.html It's not just roll out. From extremely abusive launch techniques, to reporting raw 1/4 mile times, uncorrected for elevation, or even temp/humidity (SAE), car and driver did it all. 2001 BMW 330CI 5 speed manual doing a 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds @ 96mph? What? Only one dude was ever able to do a sub 15 second 1/4 mile on the forums (14.9), and that was with the 6 speed released years later. They even tested the G35 coupe with a 14.6, 1/4, but when guys lined up both cars, it was clear that the BMW times were severely miss-reported.

Don't get me started on the E46 M3 times! sheesh! That's why they were nicknamed car and bimmer.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Trust me, there were a lot of things that car and driver was doing! the now defunct edmunds insideline did an article on standardizing acceleration testing: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...nd-trucks.html It's not just roll out. From extremely abusive launch techniques, to reporting raw 1/4 mile times, uncorrected for elevation, or even temp/humidity (SAE), car and driver did it all. 2001 BMW 330CI 5 speed manual doing a 1/4 mile in 14.5 seconds @ 96mph? What? Only one dude was ever able to do a sub 15 second 1/4 mile on the forums (14.9), and that was with the 6 speed released years later. They even tested the G35 coupe with a 14.6, 1/4, but when guys lined up both cars, it was clear that the BMW times were severely miss-reported.

I'm not gonna lie. I fell into that G35 hype......regretted less than a few months later. Thank God it was stolen. It felt like such a pig.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'm not gonna lie. I fell into that G35 hype......regretted less than a few months later. Thank God it was stolen. It felt like such a pig.

That car was still a game changer! Too bad infiniti fumbled the ball going after BMW. Make no mistake about it, those high horsepower VQ engines in the G35/350Z, were a BIG reason why BMW brought out the big guns and overbuilt the 335I's N54.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

That car was still a game changer! Too bad infiniti fumbled the ball going after BMW. Make no mistake about it, those high horsepower VQ engines in the G35/350Z, were a BIG reason why BMW brought out the big guns and overbuilt the 335I's N54.

You make great points, but it just really felt anemic. Even my 2002 BMW 330ci felt better through the rev range. I suppose it didn't help that I went straight from a 2003 M3 into the 2004 G35 (..how I managed to stay objective was beyond me). Boy was I glad when somebody wanted it more than me and decided to take it off of my hands while I was out of town. I was in a 2005 M3 before the insurance even sent the payoff check. Good riddance!