Pandora Car Alarm System
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-07-2021, 01:37 PM   #1321
RugbyBro
Major
RugbyBro's Avatar
2230
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
It's a good thing. One of the first things I tell my students is to stop fucking around with gear swapping and focus on where the track is going and where their car is relative to that.
I was thinking of just running the track in 3rd gear until I get a better feel for it in my first session or two. Not even remotely thinking about time right now. Iím in the novice bracket so I expect it will be relatively slow anyway
__________________
F82 - Current
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow7933.00

      05-07-2021, 01:43 PM   #1322
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
7933
Rep
8,028
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
I was thinking of just running the track in 3rd gear until I get a better feel for it in my first session or two. Not even remotely thinking about time right now. Iím in the novice bracket so I expect it will be relatively slow anyway
That's a good plan. If it's your first event you will have a massive influx of information on your mind
Appreciate 1
RugbyBro2230.00

      Yesterday, 12:04 AM   #1323
RugbyBro
Major
RugbyBro's Avatar
2230
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Fantastic day, tons of fun, learned a shit load, and officially picked up a new hobby. Money will now be going directly into driver mod (seat time) then tires and brake pads when needed!
__________________
F82 - Current
Appreciate 6
      Yesterday, 06:30 AM   #1324
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
16493
Rep
19,224
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4cs
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M4cs  [0.00]
2018 Audi RS3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Fantastic day, tons of fun, learned a shit load, and officially picked up a new hobby. Money will now be going directly into driver mod (seat time) then tires and brake pads when needed!
Welcome to the addiction

I always tell first timers, the biggest risk is getting hooked
__________________
///M4cs 2019 F82 Lime Rock Grey
MPE / CF Mirror caps / MP-HAS / GC Camber plates
Appreciate 2
jmg10544.00
RugbyBro2230.00

      Yesterday, 08:31 AM   #1325
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
7933
Rep
8,028
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
Fantastic day, tons of fun, learned a shit load, and officially picked up a new hobby. Money will now be going directly into driver mod (seat time) then tires and brake pads when needed!
That's awesome! It is such a wonderful sport!
Appreciate 3
jmg10544.00
RugbyBro2230.00
irunalot467.00

      Yesterday, 09:44 AM   #1326
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
10544
Rep
10,872
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, i3 LCI, VW Atlas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPE | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08 | RE-71R
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
2021.5 VW Atlas 3.6L V6 SEL 4Motion
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 1
fanatic1803.50

      Yesterday, 10:31 AM   #1327
Suds
/M Enthusiast
Suds's Avatar
United_States
597
Rep
1,090
Posts

Drives: M4, M2, A4 Avant USP, C7 Z06
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lone Star State

iTrader: (1)

I purchased the track walk for COTA before my first time there. It contained a lot of information and made me really comfortable the first few times there. Laguna Seca raceway is also offered in the series.

https://speedsecrets.com/virtual-track-walks/


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
__________________
2019 M4 ZCP, Alpine White/Sakhir, DCT, MPE
2019 M2 Comp, Alpine White, DCT, track car build
2004 Audi A4 Avant USP 6mt, RS4 clutch, built motor, Garrett GT3071r "Big Ass Turbo" Motoza Tuned
2016 Z06/Z07 Vette
Appreciate 2
jmg10544.00
fanatic1803.50

      Yesterday, 05:53 PM   #1328
RugbyBro
Major
RugbyBro's Avatar
2230
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

So quick question for you guys - here are the front and rear tires after my first track day. These are OE super sports - I didn’t keep any times but on Thunderhill 3 mile I got about 8 laps in a 20 min session, so anywhere from 2:50-2:85 let’s say. I don’t feel like I over drove the tires as they never got greasy on me given my pace and there’s no chunking going on. However, I was going fast enough on some long sweepers to hit some under steer on the stock front alignment - corrected that by braking a little earlier and carrying a more consistent speed through the sweep. Anyway, these are the tires the day after - not sure if it’s visible but the fronts have noticeably more outer shoulder wear and less inner shoulder wear than the rears or better said, the rears are worn noticeably more evenly (front is fixed stock camber, rears are dialed to just under -2 I believe). Inner tire is to the right, outer is to the left. Additionally, I ran the tires at 29 cold, 36-38 hot.

You guys have any thoughts on what to do / how to improve to avoid this or do I have to think about camber plates in my near future? I really want to take the approach of outdriving the car before adding mods

EDIT: trying to fix the first pic, but if not, outer is on the bottom & inner is on the top. First pic is front, second is rear
Attached Images
  
__________________
F82 - Current

Last edited by RugbyBro; Yesterday at 06:04 PM..
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 06:23 PM   #1329
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
7933
Rep
8,028
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RugbyBro View Post
So quick question for you guys - here are the front and rear tires after my first track day. These are OE super sports - I didn’t keep any times but on Thunderhill 3 mile I got about 8 laps in a 20 min session, so anywhere from 2:50-2:85 let’s say. I don’t feel like I over drove the tires as they never got greasy on me given my pace and there’s no chunking going on. However, I was going fast enough on some long sweepers to hit some under steer on the stock front alignment - corrected that by braking a little earlier and carrying a more consistent speed through the sweep. Anyway, these are the tires the day after - not sure if it’s visible but the fronts have noticeably more outer shoulder wear and less inner shoulder wear than the rears or better said, the rears are worn noticeably more evenly (front is fixed stock camber, rears are dialed to just under -2 I believe). Inner tire is to the right, outer is to the left. Additionally, I ran the tires at 29 cold, 36-38 hot.

You guys have any thoughts on what to do / how to improve to avoid this or do I have to think about camber plates in my near future? I really want to take the approach of outdriving the car before adding mods

EDIT: trying to fix the first pic, but if not, outer is on the bottom & inner is on the top. First pic is front, second is rear
camber plates are an absolutely essential part of tracking a M car. There's not really a way around them. Don't count them as a 'mod', it's more like a tire preservation strategy.

The real beauty of camber plates and M cars is you can have a good street alignment that won't wear your tires in tens of thousands of miles and then at the track, you jack up one front corner and adjust the camber (and the toe also changes in the right direction) in like 30 seconds. Then you spend another 30 seconds on the other side. Then when it's time to go home you undo the change.

I've been doing this for years and it's just perfect

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; Yesterday at 06:43 PM..
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 07:26 PM   #1330
RugbyBro
Major
RugbyBro's Avatar
2230
Rep
1,158
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
camber plates are an absolutely essential part of tracking a M car. There's not really a way around them. Don't count them as a 'mod', it's more like a tire preservation strategy.

The real beauty of camber plates and M cars is you can have a good street alignment that won't wear your tires in tens of thousands of miles and then at the track, you jack up one front corner and adjust the camber (and the toe also changes in the right direction) in like 30 seconds. Then you spend another 30 seconds on the other side. Then when it's time to go home you undo the change.

I've been doing this for years and it's just perfect
Cool - once I run through these tires I’ll probably pick up a set of camber plates. Should give me a couple more track days to continue acclimating. I just felt like I was starting to get it by my last session, which was cut short unfortunately due to a roll, but it’s got me looking forward to the next one - hopefully in a few weeks. Other general thoughts having now driven the car harder than I have previously:

- Power was perfect. I’m on a base tune so I never felt a dip and consciously tried shifting at 7200 and using 7200-7600 as overrun (first two sessions were all in 3rd, thereafter started incorporating 2nd and 4th). Ran it in efficient throttle and S2 - really liked it. Efficient allowed my n00b left foot a little bit of forgiveness as picked up speed. Never felt like I needed a more sensitive throttle (at least for now), I could hit the bottom of the pedal pretty easily and knew how much throttle I was feeding.
- Definitely felt the weight. I was rolling probably around 4000lbs with me, instructor, and 3/4 tank. I get why people like lighter cars, probably aligns better with the way I intuitively drive, so I have to work on positioning/setup into turns a bit better (I.e braking hard earlier to setup right)
- Brakes were okay - running DS2500 but found I had to get pretty deep and hard into the pedal to scrub speed. Went through about 1/3 of a fresh set - I’ve never seen my wheels as dirty as they were today.
- Stock suspension was great - I can tell I have a long way to go before needing anything more.
- Tires were fine, some under steer here and there but I think possibly a touch more camber could help that vs buying bigger tires right away. I’m sure 4Ss will naturally be the next level up in grip that I need by the time I have to get some as replacements.
- Ran in GTS MDM for the entire day - I never noticed it light up on me or felt any power cut though, there was one specific instance where I am fairly certain that it did. The way I drive I rarely, if ever, light up TC in MDM. The goal is to work towards full TC off
- Thunderhill is an awesome track - will absolutely be returning here. Want to also learn West an aspire to do the 5 mile.
- Being at the track day itself was like second nature to me. Having played countless Rugby 7s tournaments and helped set them up, it’s almost the exact same scheduling, time on, downtime, etc. I’m only bummed that it was so windy that I couldn’t set up the canopy and setup a nice hub for myself and guys parked around me
__________________
F82 - Current

Last edited by RugbyBro; Yesterday at 07:33 PM..
Appreciate 1
SYT_Shadow7933.00

      Yesterday, 08:45 PM   #1331
fanatic1
Captain
fanatic1's Avatar
United_States
804
Rep
730
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Encinitas/San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 M4CS  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
Hope the timing works out, overdue for a trip to Laguna.

Looking forward to your post
__________________
19 M4 CS LRG MPE
Appreciate 0
      Today, 02:02 AM   #1332
melanthius
Private
32
Rep
69
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: May 2018
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswy6 View Post
On a separate note, i have Akebono ceramic brake pads up front for daily and if i will be swapping to PFC11 before a track day, are there any downside to changing compounds?
I've had serious judder when swapping compounds before. I'd watch out for sure.

Now I try to use pads that are more compatible, carbotech street pads on the street and XP12/10 on the track.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 02:39 AM   #1333
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
10544
Rep
10,872
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, i3 LCI, VW Atlas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanatic1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
Hope the timing works out, overdue for a trip to Laguna.

Looking forward to your post
Looks like it's going to be June 10th. I've already got a few days off blocked out to go. Any good hotel recommendations with secure-ish parking?
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPE | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08 | RE-71R
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
2021.5 VW Atlas 3.6L V6 SEL 4Motion
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
      Today, 10:33 AM   #1334
paffinity
Private
10
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: M4CS
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2020 X7  [0.00]
2020 M4 CS  [0.00]
Thoughts on these rotors?

Have had 14 days on these Girodiscs, 8 of them at COTA. Used 1.11, PFC11, and on ST43 right now. Definitely enjoyed the PFC11 best, but have a feeling they got pretty hot, calipers starting turning green/black with them.

These are the fronts, both sides look similar. The cracks do catch on fingernail but not very deep. The rear shows no visible cracks.

I did order some replacement rings but was going to wait until the cracks reached the edge.

Do you guys think they're okay until that happens?
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      Today, 10:56 AM   #1335
FaRKle!
Colonel
United_States
2298
Rep
2,583
Posts

Drives: '17 328d Wagon, '21 M2 Comp
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
Play with your line on T2. Some people like a tight double apex, others go wide on entry and single apex on the 2nd apex.

There's a dip at the apex of T6, feel it out because it's known to eat wheels. Also, T6 has a lot more room to track out than it seems.

Cars can get pretty light/have less grip after the crest at T7 just before T8. Make sure you get enough braking in before the crest.

If you turn into T8 too early you'll hit a good dip in the pavement. May bottom out, and will likely upset the car.
__________________
-328d Wagon Build Log (with helpful reference links)
-My YouTube Channel for some of the best DIYs and in depth information

Please don't PM me for suspension recommendations unless interested in paid private consultations.
Appreciate 1
jmg10544.00

      Today, 11:13 AM   #1336
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
United_States
7933
Rep
8,028
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/F80CS/X5 35/MiniCS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paffinity View Post
Thoughts on these rotors?

Have had 14 days on these Girodiscs, 8 of them at COTA. Used 1.11, PFC11, and on ST43 right now. Definitely enjoyed the PFC11 best, but have a feeling they got pretty hot, calipers starting turning green/black with them.

These are the fronts, both sides look similar. The cracks do catch on fingernail but not very deep. The rear shows no visible cracks.

I did order some replacement rings but was going to wait until the cracks reached the edge.

Do you guys think they're okay until that happens?
All I'm seeing there is lots of heat checking. That's step 1, then in step 2 certain cracks start getting much bigger, then eventually one reaches the edge and you have to replace it.

As long as you have a new set on you I wouldn't worry, just keep an eye on them
Appreciate 2
      Today, 08:45 PM   #1337
sc_tr0jan_m3
Lieutenant Colonel
sc_tr0jan_m3's Avatar
232
Rep
1,522
Posts

Drives: 2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

has anyone found a similar tool for the f80 steering rack that helps to set the steering angle to 0 like this turner tool for the e46? i've started to DIY my alignments at home and this would be super handy!

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-1...ment-tool-e46/
__________________


2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT | :: Bone Stock ::
2004 Titanium Silver E46 M3 6 Speed | :: Track Car ::
Appreciate 0
      Today, 08:56 PM   #1338
jmg
Lieutenant General
jmg's Avatar
United_States
10544
Rep
10,872
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 CS, i3 LCI, VW Atlas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
Friend of mine secured Leguna Seca for a 105db day and is organizing an event with an ultra low car count! I'm super excited since this is one of my bucket list tracks! Any tips and tricks for a novice/intermediate on this track for the first time?

Also, if anyone is interested I'll be posting a link when it goes live.
Play with your line on T2. Some people like a tight double apex, others go wide on entry and single apex on the 2nd apex.

There's a dip at the apex of T6, feel it out because it's known to eat wheels. Also, T6 has a lot more room to track out than it seems.

Cars can get pretty light/have less grip after the crest at T7 just before T8. Make sure you get enough braking in before the crest.

If you turn into T8 too early you'll hit a good dip in the pavement. May bottom out, and will likely upset the car.
Where is the dip at T8? Inside at the top as you come down?
__________________
2018 F80 ///M3 CS - Lime Rock Grey Metallic | MPE | MPHAS | GC Camber Plates | PFC-08 | RE-71R
2019 I01 i3 BEV - Giga World
2021.5 VW Atlas 3.6L V6 SEL 4Motion
Previous: F80 M3 | I01 i3 Rex LCI | I01 i3 REx | F30 340i M Sport ZTR | F30 328i Sport | Audi B7 S4 25Quattro #33 of 250 | E21 320i
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:58 PM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST