09-08-2011, 09:43 AM | #1 |
Moderator / European Editor
1578
Rep 6,754
Posts |
![]() ![]() BMW Patents Turbo V6 Engine. F80 M3 Application? UPDATE: We've added higher-quality schematics, including the shown variants. Rumors of BMW considering V6 engines have been floating around for quite some while now. One possible future application often mentioned when talking about such an engine is the upcoming F80 M3 (F82 M4). As we reported earlier, BMW was studying no less than four potential engine choices for the next M3. To add to the speculation, we've just discovered that BMW has filed a patent for a unique twin-turbo V6 engine last year. Have a look at this schematic BMW submitted to the German patent office to describe the patent filing: As BMW describes in their patent application, this image shows "the principle of this turbocharger layout invention (#1) in a 6-cylinder internal combustion engine in V configuration (#2) with a first cylinder bank (#2a) -- pictured as 3 circles and labeled with Z -- and a second cylinder bank (#2b) -- also pictured as 3 circles labeled with Z." Remarkable is the particular invention. According to these schematics, the exhaust gases of all 6 cylinders are routed into one turbocharger (#4) which BMW says may also be a twinscroll turbo (see images below, figures 3 and 5). After leaving the first turbocharger, the exhaust gases can be routed either into the exhaust system or into another turbocharger (#5). So this alludes to a sequential turbo layout. The patent application also mentions that this allows different sizes for both turbos. *IF* this new engine was actually produced and used in the next M3, we would assume that BMW goes for a smaller twin-scroll as the first turbo, with a larger second turbocharger. All that being said, this patent filing doesn't necessarily mean they actually will use a V6 anytime soon, or at all. Patented inventions often get dismissed before making it to series production. At the very least however, this shows that BMW has (or is) actually considering V6 engines and how to make the related turbocharging as efficient and responsive as possible. We'll try to update the subject as we get new information on possible F80 M3 engines. Follow our F80 M3 coverage in the meantime: http://www.bimmerpost.com/m3/f30m3/ BMW Bi-turbo V6 Patent Filing
Source: German patent office |
09-08-2011, 11:35 AM | #3 |
Major
![]() ![]() 53
Rep 1,153
Posts |
What's new here, though? The concept of sequential turbos isn't new. Something must be special for them to patent it, but I'm not sure if I understand what it is. Anyone care to explain?
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 11:51 AM | #6 |
Major
![]() ![]() 49
Rep 1,003
Posts |
Hmm, turbocharged V6s have been done before (Saab, Audi, etc.) so what's new here? Perhaps sequentially-charged V6s are a new thing? I think the Toyota Supra was the last production car to feature a sequential turbocharger system, but that was an I6, not a V6. Speaking of which, I don't have any issues with BMW replacing the N.A. I6 engines with turbocharged 4-cylinders, but to replace I6s and V8s with V6 engines...why BMW, why??
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 11:51 AM | #7 |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 504
Rep 3,445
Posts |
Sometimes patent applications disguise the product. In this case the real invention is probably the sequential turbo and bypass system. This could find itself on a V8 or I6 as well.
Often patent applications for camera lenses will indicate a different focal length that intended in order to throw off the rumor mill. The design can be easily scaled to the intended size. I wold not jump to any conclusion yet that this is the next M3 motor.
__________________
See my photography at http://ronscubadiver.wordpress.com
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 11:52 AM | #8 |
aiming for 450.....
![]() 305
Rep 2,910
Posts |
i wonder if they will be top mounted like the M5/X5-X6 M?
__________________
Quote from Ezeedee regarding car mods:
"you're only done when you sell the car ![]() |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 11:55 AM | #9 | |
Moderator / European Editor
1578
Rep 6,754
Posts |
Quote:
Best regards, south
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:16 PM | #10 |
11067
Rep 27,796
Posts |
![]()
__________________
![]() BEFORE YOU BUY YOUR NEXT BMW, EMAIL OUR GUY KOTE FIRST! Kote M Sales:Kotem@bmwofcamarillo.com Cell:805-368-9101 vipfinance@bmwofcamarillo.com for warranties! |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:18 PM | #11 |
Private
![]() ![]() 23
Rep 90
Posts |
Kinda translation. feel free to correct anything I messed up
(57)summary: turbo alignment (1) for the combustion engine (2) with several cylinders (Z),that are exhaustsided(?) with at least one of the first or a second cylinder group (2a,2b) added toghether are, where the first cylinder group (2a) a first and a second cylinder group (2b) a second exhaust pipe (3a,3b) added in exhaust flow direction with a first turbine housing (4a) a first exhaust turbocharger (4) exhaust flow connected with a second turbine housing (5a) a second exhaust turbo (5) over a first stop(delay)organ(valve?) (6) exhaust flow connected, whereas the first and second exhaust(?) (3a,3b) in exhaust flow direction of the second exhaust turbo (5) in a connected exhaust portion (7) goes into, the second turbine housing (5a) goes into. Because of this inventiveness, the response is greater and engine usage is broadend. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:20 PM | #12 |
Private
![]() ![]() 23
Rep 90
Posts |
woah, just read my own post, and it doesnt make sence at all..lol
but its also written very weird in german. Guess I gotta go back to school |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:23 PM | #13 |
Second Lieutenant
![]() ![]() 17
Rep 266
Posts |
Sad to see M with turbo and V6 but that is something they'll have to do. There is a limitation on I6 design; long block causes cooling issues on the last two cylinders. I believe that is why turbo I6 overheats or limps easy. A V6 is better for turbo application since shorter block allow more efficient cooling on the cylinders.
__________________
2009 BMW X5 4.8i
2006 BMW ///M Roadster 6spd manual 2006 BMW 330i 6spd manual - gone ![]() ![]() |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:40 PM | #14 | |
GODXSPD
![]() 12
Rep 157
Posts |
Quote:
Ref leaders 6, 7, 8, 9 - bypass the secondary turbo and 19, 20 - input from primary turbo into secondary turbo. But that's just a bored engineer's lunch-break guess, don't sue me ![]()
__________________
![]() e90m / ssii / foxred / wedssport sa-55m 19x9.5 et24 + 265/35r19 square / 15mm rear spacer / no chrome Last edited by CT; 09-08-2011 at 12:48 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:52 PM | #15 |
Major
![]() ![]() 182
Rep 1,008
Posts |
Reading the German document it refers to two cylinder-groups, not two cylinder rows. So this turbo layout could be describing a inline six ?
Last edited by Touring; 09-08-2011 at 01:26 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:54 PM | #16 |
GODXSPD
![]() 12
Rep 157
Posts |
I think it can safely be applied to either configuration (even a flat / boxer style). Like Diver mentioned above - patent applications are purposefully vague or misleading to protect IP.
__________________
![]() e90m / ssii / foxred / wedssport sa-55m 19x9.5 et24 + 265/35r19 square / 15mm rear spacer / no chrome |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 12:58 PM | #17 |
Buys too many toys...
![]() 17
Rep 305
Posts |
i'd rather see a single turbo straight 6 engine. i know twin turbos have less lag, but the single turbo can really wallop you with power.
__________________
2014 BMW 740Li/2000 Ferrari 360/2004 Yamaha R1
2003 X5 4.6is (Sold) 1995 M3 (Sold) |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 01:27 PM | #18 | |
Brigadier General
![]() ![]() 242
Rep 3,306
Posts |
Quote:
![]() Cheers, e46e92
__________________
![]() "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 01:35 PM | #19 | |
Moderator / European Editor
1578
Rep 6,754
Posts |
You're low-balling, that was spot-on!
![]() Quote:
Hah, I wish! Best regards, south
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 01:54 PM | #20 |
Second Lieutenant
![]() ![]() 6
Rep 291
Posts |
This looks a lot like the X5/6M engine with the turbochargers in the Vee of the engine.
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up with basically a 6 cyl version of that engine with computer controlled sequential turbos. BMW has been really anal about minimizing turbo lag to maintain the responsiveness of the M engines. Sounds like they are doing some interesting work to that end!
__________________
![]() 2009 Spacegrau 335i |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 02:22 PM | #21 |
Second Lieutenant
![]() ![]() 30
Rep 210
Posts |
This must definitely be the next M3 (M4) Engine. The 3 turbo setup is to give as less turbolag as possible hence to have the required response at the track throughout the whole rev range.
Wake up people the new trend is to be smaller, more efficient and with more power. Just imagine how easy its going to be to tune the turbos of this engine and how much horsepower there will be there to unleash. The new Z4 is a 4 cylinder turbo and its faster than the previous 6 cylinder. Imagine what this beast engine will do. Just Imagine!
__________________
Current:
M4 F82 2016 DCT Austin Yellow 530d Msport G30 2017 Bluestone Metallic Past: F36 430d Gran Coupe M-Sport Alpine White - DMS Remap, E92 320d Crismson Red M-Sport, R56 Mini Cooper S. Mazda RX8 Type-S Japan Import, E46 320ci LCI Convertible M-Sport Silver Grey ![]() |
Appreciate
0
|
09-08-2011, 02:32 PM | #22 |
First Lieutenant
![]() ![]() ![]() 11
Rep 380
Posts
Drives: 2008 e90 335i
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas, the United States of America, Planet Earth, Universe
|
I just hope they wont replace the fabulous I6 with the V6. Even if it is 60 degree V6, it is still not as good as I6.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|