18” Staggered Track Setup Official Thread

[Expert@ApexWheels]

Originally Posted by Donger Kim

Hello Apex!!

I for some reason am having some fitment issues with this set up. I am currently on JRZ RSpro2’s and when i tried test mounting the wheel, the fronts tire has some contact on the height adjustable perch in the front while the wheels are in full droop (obviously lol). The tires are NT01 275 fronts/305 rears and seems like a lot of forum members are having no issues with this set up. Not sure if this matters, but the wheels in question are APEX FL-5 18X10 ET 25 / 18X11 ET44.

Looks like i’ll need some spacers, or possible more camber? Currently my front camber is set at -1.9 degrees and thought that would be more than enough to clear.

Any help is much appreciated!

Thanks for the post! Your JRZ setup does indeed provide tremendous inner clearance compared to many other suspension brands, but it is still possible to see contact depending on your spring configuration and ride height settings. For example, if you are running front helper springs, this will inevitably put the lower perch closer to the tire. In this case, you can either add small 3mm or 5mm spacers, adjust ride height slightly, or remove the front helper springs altogether. If you are happy with the suspension setup and don't want to make any changes, adding the small spacers would be our recommendation.

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Not necessarily true..if you have stock alignment the tire will be closer to fender, while if you have an aggressive alignment (camber) the tire is going closer to the strut. Am I losing it here?!

My question is can you fit the 275/305 (18inch) on F80 with stock and modified alignments?

Partially true. While a stock alignment (compared to a track alignment) will put the tire closer to the fender's edge as a result of having less negative camber, the relationship between the wheel/tire and the strut is fixed, and does not change while driving or when adjusting front camber since the wheel and strut move together. The only way to adjust inner clearance is to add or remove wheel spacers. On adjustable suspensions, raising or lowering the ride height can also have an effect on inner clearance as described above.

--Dylan

[Donger Kim]

Originally Posted by Expert@ApexRaceParts

Thanks for the post! Your JRZ setup does indeed provide tremendous inner clearance compared to many other suspension brands, but it is still possible to see contact depending on your spring configuration and ride height settings. For example, if you are running front helper springs, this will inevitably put the lower perch closer to the tire. In this case, you can either add small 3mm or 5mm spacers, adjust ride height slightly, or remove the front helper springs altogether. If you are happy with the suspension setup and don't want to make any changes, adding the small spacers would be our recommendation.



Partially true. While a stock alignment (compared to a track alignment) will put the tire closer to the fender's edge as a result of having less negative camber, the relationship between the wheel/tire and the strut is fixed, and does not change while driving or when adjusting front camber since the wheel and strut move together. The only way to adjust inner clearance is to add or remove wheel spacers. On adjustable suspensions, raising or lowering the ride height can also have an effect on inner clearance as described above.

--Dylan

Wow you nailed it.... I totally forgot to mention I had helped springs... Thank you for taking the time.


I was curious, the last owner i bought the car from only had camber plates. I know he was running aggressive camber but didn’t think stock spring perches would be anywhere near clearing... Maybe he did have spacers (I didn’t think he did).


Thanks again!

[jww///95]

Originally Posted by Donger Kim

Wow you nailed it.... I totally forgot to mention I had helped springs... Thank you for taking the time.


I was curious, the last owner i bought the car from only had camber plates. I know he was running aggressive camber but didn’t think stock spring perches would be anywhere near clearing... Maybe he did have spacers (I didn’t think he did).


Thanks again!

Stock spring perches sit above the tire so clearance isn't an issue like on the adjustable perch setups which place the perch midway up the sidewalk if not even lower. This introduces perch, helper or main spring potential inference with inboard wheel and tire clearance

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Not necessarily true..if you have stock alignment the tire will be closer to fender, while if you have an aggressive alignment (camber) the tire is going closer to the strut. Am I losing it here?!

My question is can you fit the 275/305 (18inch) on F80 with stock and modified alignments?

I thought the original post was about contact with the strut? If that's the issue then camber has nothing to do with it.

That said, I would say there's enough space up front with a stock alignment.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

I thought the original post was about contact with the strut? If that's the issue then camber has nothing to do with it.

That said, I would say there's enough space up front with a stock alignment.

Ah I didnt follow the whole thread, just staying clearances can change with camber (fender side). Brain wasn't working when I was thinking it effected the other side (strut) too, but it shouldn't as mentioned by someone else.

[///Mobbin]

Curious if anyone has tried this setup? Still on stock suspension for now.
18x10 ET25 front with 285/30/18 Cup 2
18x11 ET44 rear with 295/30/18 Cup 2

[OreoGuy]

Hi Gents,

I decided, well thought (ha!), on a staggered setup for my dual duty M...

But having 11.5 on the rear currently, I’m wondering if I could make the front .5 wider to keep the same ratios as stock. I’m thinking:

Fronts 18x10.5 ET20 with 285/30 R18 tyres
Rears 18x11.5 ET45 with 305/30 R18 tyres

How do you think this would work? Rears will be fine but concerned with fronts.

Thanks!!

[PayamFSU]

Currently running

EC-7 18x9.5 and 18x11
NT05 275/35 and 295/35
No spacers
GC plates -2.2 front stock toe, 1.8 rear stock toe
Sprint springs
No issues. I went to the track with my ZCP and compared to my M4 non ZCP on re-71 on stock 19 I was 2.5 seconds slower! Some of it was likely mental since now I have a 4 month old the m3 has 3000 miles on it only. But I think the tires are too new and slick, I'm driving them hard on the street for the next two weeks to get some of the slickness off see what happens. Otherwise tire wear and temperature was spot on with my alignment inside and outside tire temp within 20 degrees F.

[jacobe92]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Currently running

EC-7 18x9.5 and 18x11
NT05 275/35 and 295/35
No spacers
GC plates -2.2 front stock toe, 1.8 rear stock toe
Sprint springs
No issues. I went to the track with my ZCP and compared to my M4 non ZCP on re-71 on stock 19 I was 2.5 seconds slower! Some of it was likely mental since now I have a 4 month old the m3 has 3000 miles on it only. But I think the tires are too new and slick, I'm driving them hard on the street for the next two weeks to get some of the slickness off see what happens. Otherwise tire wear and temperature was spot on with my alignment inside and outside tire temp within 20 degrees F.

Track whip looks good.

[pfl]

Originally Posted by PayamFSU

Currently running

EC-7 18x9.5 and 18x11
NT05 275/35 and 295/35
No spacers
GC plates -2.2 front stock toe, 1.8 rear stock toe
Sprint springs
No issues. I went to the track with my ZCP and compared to my M4 non ZCP on re-71 on stock 19 I was 2.5 seconds slower! Some of it was likely mental since now I have a 4 month old the m3 has 3000 miles on it only. But I think the tires are too new and slick, I'm driving them hard on the street for the next two weeks to get some of the slickness off see what happens. Otherwise tire wear and temperature was spot on with my alignment inside and outside tire temp within 20 degrees F.

Why are you rubbing NT05 and not NT01? Those tires are very different and RE71R tires do hook as well as NT01s. This is from my experience as I've driven F80 on both NT01 and RE71R.

Did you gather any data using any lap timer tools to see where you're losing time?

[PayamFSU]

Originally Posted by pfl

Why are you rubbing NT05 and not NT01? Those tires are very different and RE71R tires do hook as well as NT01s. This is from my experience as I've driven F80 on both NT01 and RE71R.

Did you gather any data using any lap timer tools to see where you're losing time?

Becaus I made a stupid mistake lol figured driving to track and treadwear I would maybe get 2-3 more track days out of the NT05 and they were supposed to be similar to Nt01 almost like an RS4-re-71 hybrid but they are absolutely horrible. Easy to overdrive and slick, I hate them . People that say they are a good track tire likely don't push as hard as I do. They do wear well tho.

[MPOOR]

Originally Posted by blackey

There really are not a lot of options here. Front can be 10" pretty easily, and the rears are pretty much 11". A 10.5" will fit up front as well, depending on suspension. Aftermarket suspensions generally take up space on the inside and do not allow for as much backspace on the rims, so that is usually an issue for those tracking as we generally change off stock shocks. Anything up front with a helper spring or a spring longer than 6" will have less clearance. I've tried Dinan HAS kit, JRZ RS2, Ohlins R&T, and now the MCS. I'm a serial suspension guy

Right now
MCS Doubles with rear coilover conversion
GC camber plates set at 3 degrees (makes a difference in what you can run up front due to outer fender clearance)

18x10 ET25 front with 285/645/18 Pirelli DH slick
18x11 ET44 rear with 305/645/18 Pirelli DH slick

my next set of tires will probably be
18x10 ET25 front with 295/30/18 Hoosier R7
18x11 ET44 rear with 315/30/18 Hoosier R7

I believe most are running this (Which I think is too much stagger and is hard to get the push out of the car)
18x10 ET25 front with 275/35/18 R888, Nitto, etc...
18x11 ET44 rear with 315/30/18 R888, Nitto, etc....

I know this is an old post, but wondering are you running slicks on the stock control arms? Can they handle the grip from a set of slicks?

[MPOOR]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I think you would be better off with a square track setup on the M2.

The M3/4 need the wide 305 rear due to the massive mid-range torque coming out of corners. I ran a square 275 NT01 setup on my first season with the M4, and just could not leverage the available power. The staggered setup allowed me to reduce my lap times by about 1 second a lap, however I lost 3~5mph top speed on the back straight due to the added drag.

I had the opportunity to test drive an M2 around my home track this summer (nifty little beast this M2 ). The M2 has much less mid and top range power than the M3/4, which meant I could be WOT as soon as I hit the majority of Apexes, and that was on the stock PSS. There is no need for 305 rears, especially r-comps. I figure a square 275 NT01 setup would be ideal and would allow you to rotate the tires to maximize their life (the biggest drawback of running a staggered setup).

Maybe for oem power out put~ But with tuned power output, it will be needed to maximize available rear end traction.

[danimal87]

Finally getting around to post pics of the sm-10's mounted and test fit on the car.
F:18X10 R:18X11 (no spacers)👌🔥

[bimmerboyE92]

What size tires?

[FTP20]

Originally Posted by danimal87

Finally getting around to post pics of the sm-10's mounted and test fit on the car.
F:18X10 R:18X11 (no spacers)👌🔥

Looks tough! Can you please provide suspension, alignment and tire details?

[CRRobert]

What ratio are people getting out of front tires to rear on the track for RE71/NT01?

Anyone run 18 front 19 rear staggered?

[danimal87]

Originally Posted by FTP20

Looks tough! Can you please provide suspension, alignment and tire details?

Apex SM-10's 18X10 ET25 18X11 ET44
R888 275/35ZR-18 305/35ZR-18 🤘

[slowpoke247]

Originally Posted by danimal87

Finally getting around to post pics of the sm-10's mounted and test fit on the car.
F:18X10 R:18X11 (no spacers)����

You aren't lowered? My front wheel gap seems like the grand canyon compared to yours. I have the same wheel and tire setup, no spacers, oem non-edc suspension

[danimal87]

Originally Posted by slowpoke247

You aren't lowered? My front wheel gap seems like the grand canyon compared to yours. I have the same wheel and tire setup, no spacers, oem non-edc suspension

Yes, I'm on emmanuele design springs and ZCP suspension w/edc.

[calubi]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but this seems like an appropriate place...

I'm looking for an 18" staggered setup with RS-4 tires for track duty plus to/from the track and light street use. I'm thinking TA5R 18x10 ET25 fronts and 18x11 ET44 rears, but there are a few tire size choices:

265/40ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Can anyone confirm this fits without issue on stock zcp suspension? Seems like a solid choice to try, if it fits. This thread seems to hint it will work. Would the 3.4% F-R stagger be too much for DSC/MDM off track? Would the 40 profile hold up well on the track vs the 35 profile options?

265/35ZR18 - 285/35ZR18
Safer choice, but it gives up some width in the rear.

265/35ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Hybrid that uses the safer front size with the beefier rears. But at nearly 8% F-R stagger, this sounds too exaggerated.

275/35ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Almost missed this option as this 275 is not showing up on tire rack. But would this still be too much stagger?

I'm looking for pros/cons between these options (or other 18" staggered options for this tire if I missed something). Goal is to maximize grip without requiring fender modifications. I'm hoping more people have tried the RS-4 in an 18" staggered setup since the last replies about that tire in this thread.

Thanks!

[fanatic1]

Originally Posted by calubi

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but this seems like an appropriate place...

I'm looking for an 18" staggered setup with RS-4 tires for track duty plus to/from the track and light street use. I'm thinking TA5R 18x10 ET25 fronts and 18x11 ET44 rears, but there are a few tire size choices:

265/40ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Can anyone confirm this fits without issue on stock zcp suspension? Seems like a solid choice to try, if it fits. This thread seems to hint it will work. Would the 3.4% F-R stagger be too much for DSC/MDM off track? Would the 40 profile hold up well on the track vs the 35 profile options?

265/35ZR18 - 285/35ZR18
Safer choice, but it gives up some width in the rear.

265/35ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Hybrid that uses the safer front size with the beefier rears. But at nearly 8% F-R stagger, this sounds too exaggerated.

275/35ZR18 - 295/40ZR18
Almost missed this option as this 275 is not showing up on tire rack. But would this still be too much stagger?

I'm looking for pros/cons between these options (or other 18" staggered options for this tire if I missed something). Goal is to maximize grip without requiring fender modifications. I'm hoping more people have tried the RS-4 in an 18" staggered setup since the last replies about that tire in this thread.

Thanks!

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1652671