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      04-26-2015, 06:46 PM   #1
E90lova
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M3/M4 vs Z28 or 1LE on road course/track

Hi guys. I am also on the Camaro5 forums and see the Camaro guys talking smack about M3/M4s getting whipped on road course. I would like to know from you the real out come of what happens when you encounter these 2 levels of Camaros on track. Are they really beating M cars like they claim? Video clips are also welcome.
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      04-26-2015, 07:37 PM   #2
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They are not a very useable car compared to the F8x chassis.I drove one on Friday on the road and I was not very impressed by this relic of the past which in Canada is more money than a base F8x.Put the same rubber on a F8x and see what happens on the track!
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      04-26-2015, 07:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90lova View Post
Hi guys. I am also on the Camaro5 forums and see the Camaro guys talking smack about M3/M4s getting whipped on road course. I would like to know from you the real out come of what happens when you encounter these 2 levels of Camaros on track. Are they really beating M cars like they claim? Video clips are also welcome.
for stuff like this i would defer to the magazines who can standardize as much as possible .... the z28 is a complete beast and (i'm almost positive) beat a GTR around Barber MP. i wouldn't be surprised in the least if it beat the m3/4 in that case. as much as the pedigree suggests otherwise, the M3/4 isn't a TRACK car. it's track capable but it also is meant to be a daily driver and something to haul the kids/groceries around in. the z28/1le can do those things but not as well, in my opinion. i got my m3 because it's a great all-rounder, not so i could brag about how it beats stuff at the track.

for most of us casual track guys, the car isn't the limiting factor so even if i showed a video of me getting a point-by from a z28 owner, it wouldn't really prove much and back in the paddock i'd probably go up to him and tell him i think it's an awesome car and that if i had the funds and garage space i'd probably have one, too

i hope you weren't looking for "F that! chevy sucks!" kind of answer... although sounds like that's the type of attitude on the camaro forum. there are bad apples (read: trolls) everywhere though, including here.

i'm sure other guys have their opinions as well but i think a majority of people here appreciate the well-roundedness of the m3/m4.
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      04-26-2015, 09:29 PM   #4
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Not looking for negative troll responses but the honest truth based on experience. As for the previous post I don't care for magazine paid off reviews. I actually have a modded 2012 Camaro SS as well with Bilstein Pss10 coils the whole 9 yards and still feel somewhat unimpressed. It feels more M5 territory not M3/M4. Yes I too agree and said it many times , the current M3/4 has too little tire for that power. My same Camaro with similar wheels and tires 275s on my 19" Enkei Raijins can't handle the power at all and feels like the back end wants to flip over and probably will. I couldn't last a lap with those wheels on the rear so I don't see it fair for others to brag about beating your Ms when it has a clear handicap. The Camaro gen 5 with wide tires seems like you can and I do take corners at triple digits with ease, even more so than Z06s which needs lots of skill to do the same.
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      04-26-2015, 10:07 PM   #5
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I can tell you that a stock 1LE with only upgraded pads/fluid is as fast as my E92 with KW Clubsport and Trophy Kit BBK.

I would imagine that the stock M3/M4 would be on par with the 1LE if not a little faster. The M3/M4 with proper suspension should be quicker than a 1LE.

The Z28 should be faster than all of the above. I just can't see it any other way. Although it's heavy, it's very close to a purpose built track car. That 427 is a serious piece of kit.
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      04-27-2015, 02:39 PM   #6
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Pads, fluid, piggyback, simular tires, and maybe some extra camber you are in Z28 territory. The Z28 is an amazing car and like the 911 the result of engineers saying we will fight physics with technology!

As far as Camaro owners bad mouthing M3 owners using information based on magazine reviews. I think I said enough there. To me it's like bragging about how much faster your buddies car is then mine.
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      04-27-2015, 10:15 PM   #7
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magazines can be biased because they're just people too, but I feel like putting the same driver (especially a pro) behind the wheel of different cars is the best way to see which is faster (on a given track). nothing is perfect.

the m3/4 is easier/cheaper to get more power out of it, but the z28 can be sent to Hennessy, too and probably others for some more power if needed. no doubt they are good and fast cars but I don't like how but they feel to me and he camaros I've sat in dont excite me from a cabin perspective. again another reason I got my car: it's very good at being a family, fun, fast/trackable car that looks great and has the creature comforts I'm looking for, too. no other car at any price offers what the m3 does to me. perfect single car for my needs/wants.
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      04-27-2015, 11:09 PM   #8
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Doesn't really matter what tire is on each car, good luck fitting 305's front and rear on M4. It is proven to get big power out of LS7 for little money. So even a tuned M4 just wouldn't be a match. Z28 is just a beast, no way around it.

Same goes for the GT350/GT350R, it is going to smoke the M4 around road course as well.
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      04-27-2015, 11:10 PM   #9
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The short answer is yes, the new Z28 will walk a new M3/4 on a road course.

I'm not surprised that people want to make excuses, kind of how the Lexus guys do when the M's run away from them. Sure, with a bunch of mod's you could probably keep up with the Z, but that's really not the point. It's a dedicated track car and will just plain outrun us.
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      04-27-2015, 11:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Doesn't really matter what tire is on each car, good luck fitting 305's front and rear on M4. It is proven to get big power out of LS7 for little money. So even a tuned M4 just wouldn't be a match. Z28 is just a beast, no way around it.

Same goes for the GT350/GT350R, it is going to smoke the M4 around road course as well.
A jb4 and e85 and you have 530 whp and more then that in torque. The S55 is cheap to get power out of.
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      04-28-2015, 12:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
A jb4 and e85 and you have 530 whp and more then that in torque. The S55 is cheap to get power out of.
I don't disagree a JB4 is cheap hp. But relatively speaking getting that same power out of LS7 is pretty easy and cheap. Plus when you start putting down big boy numbers, that is when the LS7 starts to get a lot cheaper to mod. It is almost comical to compare exhaust prices for a BMW vs a domestic car.
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      04-28-2015, 08:45 AM   #12
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There is no question the Z28 is a very track capable and fast track car!The big issue that I have with the car is that's it is a single dimension focused vehicle.We have one at work and I speak from my Experiance with it.
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      05-05-2015, 12:53 PM   #13
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OP, i thought of you this weekend.

I saw a Z/28 get a 1:25 on a track where i could only manage a 1:33ish. My first time on that track and he is a pro driver (last drove the Park Place Porsche in 2013 at Rolex 24). we are, however, both dentists so that's another variable we can account for. so he's kind of my newfound hero ... dentist / pro racer. I've done a total of 16 track days over the last 6 years but i used 3 different cars and spread those days out over 9 tracks, so i am far from "honing" myself or my car but i'm an "okay" driver. He's been racing as long as i've been alive

me in m3, him in z/28 not fair but he could probably beat me using a stock hyundai elantra. his feedback of the z/28 was "it's a big car but a lot of fun .. not nearly as nimble and agile as your car though" talking about my f80 M3. i think that pretty much sums it up. He said that the cooling seems to be an issue but i forget how he elaborated on that.... i believe something about there being poor air flow (despite the "flowtie" hehe)

a better comparison: this guy in the instructor group who he passed (i don't know anything about the other driver) ... GT3 driver i'm guessing is at least very experienced but may not be a "racer" or a "fast" guy... anyway here ya go:


^^notice the mid-turn brake... he was doing that a lot of laps even when he wasn't rear-ending a porsche though ... i think to get some rotation in the off-camber/flat turn.



^^ same lap couple turns later and he started pulling away .. next lap he was a good 3-4 seconds ahead of the GT3. impressive work.
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      05-05-2015, 01:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
OP, i thought of you this weekend.

I saw a Z/28 get a 1:25 on a track where i could only manage a 1:33ish. My first time on that track and he is a pro driver (last drove the Park Place Porsche in 2013 at Rolex 24). we are, however, both dentists so that's another variable we can account for. so he's kind of my newfound hero ... dentist / pro racer. I've done a total of 16 track days over the last 6 years but i used 3 different cars and spread those days out over 9 tracks, so i am far from "honing" myself or my car but i'm an "okay" driver. He's been racing as long as i've been alive

me in m3, him in z/28 not fair but he could probably beat me using a stock hyundai elantra. his feedback of the z/28 was "it's a big car but a lot of fun .. not nearly as nimble and agile as your car though" talking about my f80 M3. i think that pretty much sums it up. He said that the cooling seems to be an issue but i forget how he elaborated on that.... i believe something about there being poor air flow (despite the "flowtie" hehe)

a better comparison: this guy in the instructor group who he passed (i don't know anything about the other driver) ... GT3 driver i'm guessing is at least very experienced but may not be a "racer" or a "fast" guy... anyway here ya go:


^^notice the mid-turn brake... he was doing that a lot of laps even when he wasn't rear-ending a porsche though ... i think to get some rotation in the off-camber/flat turn.



^^ same lap couple turns later and he started pulling away .. next lap he was a good 3-4 seconds ahead of the GT3. impressive work.
Skill level of the drivers is probably the factor here!
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      05-05-2015, 01:04 PM   #15
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i was discussing the z/28 smoking the GT3 and one of the novice drivers (boxster GTS driver) was arguing that the z/28 was out-classing the GT3 because it had so much horsepower ... he was trying to say it's not a fair fight. i couldn't believe how serious he was about the whole thing....
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      05-05-2015, 01:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
Skill level of the drivers is probably the factor here!
this is when it's painfully obvious that's the case (except to the guy in the stands i was talk to). but there are varying degrees of this all the time which is why it's so hard to make an "apples to apples" comparison on lap times. hell, my lap times probably varied by 5 or more seconds throughout the weekend (i'm not QUITE a noob but my first couple sessions were ugly.. by the end i was putting together a lot more consistent/faster laps but no where near what this car SHOULD be able to do)
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      05-07-2015, 07:53 PM   #17
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Lightning lap

M4 3:00.7
1L4 3:01.5
Z28 2:50.9

M4 and the 1LE = drivers race

The Z28 destroys the M4.
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      05-07-2015, 11:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
Lightning lap

M4 3:00.7
1L4 3:01.5
Z28 2:50.9

M4 and the 1LE = drivers race

The Z28 destroys the M4.
z28 beat the stingray by 3 full seconds... it's just a crazy car. i wonder (for the purposes of my observations) how the 991 GT3 would've done at VIR that during their test.
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      05-08-2015, 10:38 AM   #19
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I'm sure the GT3 will be tested in the next lightning lap. The GT3 will be close to the Z28 based on previous tests.
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      05-08-2015, 04:02 PM   #20
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As a previous owner of various BMW’s, 2 E46 M’3’s and a Modded N54, these are two very different cars the OP is comparing. I have driven a stock M4 and it is a seriously nice car.

Having said that I would like to note I have a 2010 camaro that is cam’d, geared, suspension work, etc. and it is not nearly as refined as an ///M car. It will however hold it’s own against a lot of more expensive cars. If money was not an issue I would have an F80/82 M3/4 for sure.

Until then all I can do is appreciate from a distance and make a lot of noise in my SS… For all those who will blast me for driving a Chevy, my DD is a beautiful 330xi…
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      05-09-2015, 02:18 PM   #21
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Would be interested to see what a Z28 would do at Watkins Glen. Can't find much info on lap times.
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      05-09-2015, 02:40 PM   #22
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It's time to admit american muscle is back. They are heavy, but they are powerful, and the new Mustangs, Corvettes and Camaro's have become very good at more than drag racing.

If you magazine/internet race, the Z28 is just the better car for the track, and it's quite the menacing looker and the exhaust note will obnoxiously please everyone.
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