M3/M4 vs Z28 or 1LE on road course/track

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Would be interested to see what a Z28 would do at Watkins Glen. Can't find much info on lap times.

I was at Watkins glen last weekend, and there was a guy with Z28. I know him from track days and he was running in 2:12s on street tires. His best lap time at LRP was 1:00. He is a good driver, but he said he was not pushing hard.

[Gearhead999s]

I have never seen a Z28 on the track but I did instruct a really good student in a ZL1 who got got down to 2.17's when he was solo.He was on stock rubber & brakes and I was quite impressed at the time.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

I have never seen a Z28 on the track but I did instruct a really good student in a ZL1 who got got down to 2.17's when he was solo.He was on stock rubber & brakes and I was quite impressed at the time.

As i said before, very few ppl can lap this track in under 2:15s with street cars(even modded w/r-comp. tires). As Master c17 demonstrated, new m3 is capable of doing it under 2:10s on street tires if driven by a really good driver. I am still impressed. Didnt think it was so much faster than e9xm3.

[Blksnowflake]

Chris Harris Testing a Z28, he was pretty impressed.

[evanescent03]

i'm actually browsing around for a less expensive replacement for my m3... it'll be 99% daily driven with a couple track weekends a year. the track prowess and price point of the 1LE makes it attractive but they're coming out with a new model in a week which at least sounds incredible ... i bet it'll take a while before the 1LE or equivalent makes its way to to the dealerships though...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

i'm actually browsing around for a less expensive replacement for my m3... it'll be 99% daily driven with a couple track weekends a year. the track prowess and price point of the 1LE makes it attractive but they're coming out with a new model in a week which at least sounds incredible ... i bet it'll take a while before the 1LE or equivalent makes its way to to the dealerships though...

My opinion, if you want an LS series V8 GM car, the best is a Z06 of some sort. Why bother with the extra weight of the Camaro? Just a C6 Z06 with the Z07 package instead for less money

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

My opinion, if you want an LS series V8 GM car, the best is a Z06 of some sort. Why bother with the extra weight of the Camaro? Just a C6 Z06 with the Z07 package instead for less money

because buying new has its benefits. if it were a 3rd car or a track car i'd go c6 z06 all day long. those things are beasts. as a DD, the z06 with its lowww ride probably falls short of the camaro (literally and figuratively as a DD), although i don't think the camaro itself gets praised for its DD'ability. the 1LE just gets hyped so much as a track capable car i want one! the m3 is perfect but i'm still considering a switch. biggest factor is i just have the car-swapping disease

[MasterC17]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

I was at Watkins glen last weekend, and there was a guy with Z28. I know him from track days and he was running in 2:12s on street tires. His best lap time at LRP was 1:00. He is a good driver, but he said he was not pushing hard.

Interesting, so this would indicate that the F8X is at least as capable as the Z28, albeit I suppose it's mostly driver dependent (I ran a 2:09 on street tires).

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

i'm actually browsing around for a less expensive replacement for my m3... it'll be 99% daily driven with a couple track weekends a year. the track prowess and price point of the 1LE makes it attractive but they're coming out with a new model in a week which at least sounds incredible ... i bet it'll take a while before the 1LE or equivalent makes its way to to the dealerships though...

If it is going to be a DD do not even think of the Z28.I drove ours for a day around here and the car is punishing to drive at normal speeds.tramlines like nothing else that I have driven and so much road noise.As a dual purpose car there are many better choices including the Z06 & GT3 which are better everyday cars IMO

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Interesting, so this would indicate that the F8X is at least as capable as the Z28, albeit I suppose it's mostly driver dependent (I ran a 2:09 on street tires).

In my opinion with a few "track style" mods the M3/M4 is just as capable but more comfortable. Where the Z/28 can be made faster but not any more comfortable.

Please note before I see any hate, the Z/28 is an engineering marvel and I really am glad it was built. Its a big middle finger to people who say its to heavy to be a serious track car.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

i'm actually browsing around for a less expensive replacement for my m3... it'll be 99% daily driven with a couple track weekends a year. the track prowess and price point of the 1LE makes it attractive but they're coming out with a new model in a week which at least sounds incredible ... i bet it'll take a while before the 1LE or equivalent makes its way to to the dealerships though...

2016 Camaro has all the ingredients to be extremely impressive. Can't wait for saturday!!!

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

because buying new has its benefits. if it were a 3rd car or a track car i'd go c6 z06 all day long. those things are beasts. as a DD, the z06 with its lowww ride probably falls short of the camaro (literally and figuratively as a DD), although i don't think the camaro itself gets praised for its DD'ability. the 1LE just gets hyped so much as a track capable car i want one! the m3 is perfect but i'm still considering a switch. biggest factor is i just have the car-swapping disease

Yes, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by switching from M3 to a Camaro other than scratch an itch, to be honest. Reducing cost is also absolutely a valid reason

I think keeping the M3 as a DD and getting a track car is the way to go (and what I'm planning to do).

Or get a new 320i to daily and a used Z06

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Yes, I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by switching from M3 to a Camaro other than scratch an itch, to be honest. Reducing cost is also absolutely a valid reason

I think keeping the M3 as a DD and getting a track car is the way to go (and what I'm planning to do).

Or get a new 320i to daily and a used Z06

i would consider so many cars... i'm "only" 30 so i feel like getting a hot hatch isn't out of the question.. definitely designed for high schoolers but they are a quick, sporty, fun and useful segment but they each definitely have their shortcomings as well. the muscle cars are more of a MAN'S car (Tim Allen's "huh-huh-huhhhh" grunt) but less useful, less practical than the little hatches and probably even less FUN which is a huge factor to me.

not to get too far off topic, i'm really curious if the new camaro will have a track oriented package before long. i had no idea until like a week ago that the new camaro was coming. almost kinda sucks for the z28 owners since those are so new but will look dated so soon :-/ i'm sure most of them won't care but something i think about. bound to happen with every car, including the f80 with the LCI coming ... lucky for me, i don't care about LED taillights

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

If it is going to be a DD do not even think of the Z28.I drove ours for a day around here and the car is punishing to drive at normal speeds.tramlines like nothing else that I have driven and so much road noise.As a dual purpose car there are many better choices including the Z06 & GT3 which are better everyday cars IMO

I can definitely believe the tramlining in that bad boy. I wouldn't go for the z/28 but rather the SS with track package and try to be down the middle with livability and track competence. the m235i is back on my radar and may be more along the lines of what I'm looking for. time will tell.. thanks for the input!

[E90lova]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I can definitely believe the tramlining in that bad boy. I wouldn't go for the z/28 but rather the SS with track package and try to be down the middle with livability and track competence. the m235i is back on my radar and may be more along the lines of what I'm looking for. time will tell.. thanks for the input!

I drove the M235 with the X all wheel drive setup and didn't like it at all except for daily driving. Definitely no M3 like handling.

[TRZ06]

What makes the Z/28 so leathal really comes down to 3 key components...

1.) The magnetic suspension. It has all the performance of a true coil-over system.
2.) those wide ass, sticky tires.
3.) the CC brakes.

#1 I think is mostly the key. It does an amazing job, as that technology tickles down into cheaper cars, it's going to put a lot of lower cost coil-over companies out of business.

You just can't beat how fast that magnetic fluid can react in real time and it will only get better as processor speeds increase.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

What makes the Z/28 so leathal really comes down to 3 key components...

1.) The magnetic suspension. It has all the performance of a true coil-over system.
2.) those wide ass, sticky tires.
3.) the CC brakes.

#1 I think is mostly the key. It does an amazing job, as that technology tickles down into cheaper cars, it's going to put a lot of lower cost coil-over companies out of business.

You just can't beat how fast that magnetic fluid can react in real time and it will only get better as processor speeds increase.

The z-28 has very trick Spool Valve shock built by Multimatic here in Toronto.They also build shocks for front running cars in most Profesional race series including Formula 1.They are not magnetic shocks!

http://www.multimatic.com/structures...ers-road-cars/

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

The z-28 has very trick Spool Valve shock built by Multimatic here in Toronto.They also build shocks for front running cars in most Profesional race series including Formula 1.They are not magnetic shocks!

http://www.multimatic.com/structures...ers-road-cars/

their GT350R-C car just won in the IMSA race. with a 16yr old at the wheel! awesome!

the suspension is key, even if it's not magnetic. i'm not an expert on the tech used but clearly they have something figured out on the z/28 suspension.

speaking of the magnetic rides though... have you guys heard them before? i heard a ZL1 a while back and it was ticking a lot as it lumbered through a tight autocross course. the last track day i was at (PCA event) a guy i met was getting talked to by one of the track officials who commented on the ticking sound coming from his new Z06 and they were concerned something was breaking. i suggested that it might be the sound of the magnetic suspension. not positive i'm right but kind of a strange thing about those suspensions if i'm correct.

anyway ... yeah, i'd still take an m3 over the z/28 or 1LE. i think i would miss the niceties of the m3 as a DD over the awful, cheap interiors on the camaros. the gt350r would be more of a consideration but i would also consider other cars first. the z/28 and 1LE are still cars that i think are cool and wouldn't mind having in my 15-car garage... if i had one and could fill it with sub $100k cars.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

their GT350R-C car just won in the IMSA race. with a 16yr old at the wheel! awesome!

the suspension is key, even if it's not magnetic. i'm not an expert on the tech used but clearly they have something figured out on the z/28 suspension.

speaking of the magnetic rides though... have you guys heard them before? i heard a ZL1 a while back and it was ticking a lot as it lumbered through a tight autocross course. the last track day i was at (PCA event) a guy i met was getting talked to by one of the track officials who commented on the ticking sound coming from his new Z06 and they were concerned something was breaking. i suggested that it might be the sound of the magnetic suspension. not positive i'm right but kind of a strange thing about those suspensions if i'm correct.

anyway ... yeah, i'd still take an m3 over the z/28 or 1LE. i think i would miss the niceties of the m3 as a DD over the awful, cheap interiors on the camaros. the gt350r would be more of a consideration but i would also consider other cars first. the z/28 and 1LE are still cars that i think are cool and wouldn't mind having in my 15-car garage... if i had one and could fill it with sub $100k cars.

Multimatic are also the people building the new Ford GT for Ford in both the street & GT3 race versions.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by evanescent03

their GT350R-C car just won in the IMSA race. with a 16yr old at the wheel! awesome!

the suspension is key, even if it's not magnetic. i'm not an expert on the tech used but clearly they have something figured out on the z/28 suspension.

speaking of the magnetic rides though... have you guys heard them before? i heard a ZL1 a while back and it was ticking a lot as it lumbered through a tight autocross course. the last track day i was at (PCA event) a guy i met was getting talked to by one of the track officials who commented on the ticking sound coming from his new Z06 and they were concerned something was breaking. i suggested that it might be the sound of the magnetic suspension. not positive i'm right but kind of a strange thing about those suspensions if i'm correct.

anyway ... yeah, i'd still take an m3 over the z/28 or 1LE. i think i would miss the niceties of the m3 as a DD over the awful, cheap interiors on the camaros. the gt350r would be more of a consideration but i would also consider other cars first. the z/28 and 1LE are still cars that i think are cool and wouldn't mind having in my 15-car garage... if i had one and could fill it with sub $100k cars.

I had magnetic shocks on my Audi TTRS, and it made no ticking noise at all. I don't think that is normal.

What is for real though is the technology that goes into magnetic shocks. They react so fast, they are every bit as good as a coil-over as for as performance, not adjustability of course though.

They will only get better too as processor speeds and chipsets get better.

I keep repeating myself, but they are the future of suspension.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Interesting, so this would indicate that the F8X is at least as capable as the Z28, albeit I suppose it's mostly driver dependent (I ran a 2:09 on street tires).

Ummm no . Same driver same day at VIR the z28 was 10 seconds faster .During DE's it's 90% driver 10% car . Stop bench racing . I could easily pass a novice driver in an M4 with a 2000 Miata , doesn't make the Miata a faster car .

[E90lova]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Would be interested to see what a Z28 would do at Watkins Glen. Can't find much info on lap times.

I also saw a clip of I think that drift guy Conrad driving a Z28 around this same track in like 2:11 times, he had the owner riding shotgun though.