Ground Control Camber Plates

[LOW4LYF]

What is the max camber in the rear with stock parts?

[ferrarif1]

Originally Posted by Figurka

What is the max camber in the rear with stock parts?

Around 1.6-1.7 you run out of toe adjustment with the factory parts.

[PayamFSU]

Can someone post brief instructions or point to where I can find installation instructions for these ?

[Dranter]

Hi guys,

I recently got bit by the track bug and have started sinking money in the car.

Im getting track pads + dedicated tyres/ wheels. Going for the Apex ec-7 18x10 275/35 f and 18x11 305/35 r .

Im a total newbie to the whole thing but have been told about the negative camber.

As i will only be tracking probably up to 10 days per year and dont really understand the process, are the GC camber plates absolutely needed or can the adjustment be done by alignment only?


Thanks

[Pic18]

You need camber plates to adjust camber on the F80, it has no stock camber adjustment.

[avantix]

Like Pic18 mentionned there is no negative camber adjustment possible in stock form. Negative camber is the "leaning" of the wheel towards the inside of the car. Not achievable via alignment. Assuming you will be using R compound tires on your new wheels, the problem without adding negative camber is the outside shoulder of those soft tires will wear unevenly if driven hard.

Originally Posted by Dranter

Hi guys,

I recently got bit by the track bug and have started sinking money in the car.

Im getting track pads + dedicated tyres/ wheels. Going for the Apex ec-7 18x10 275/35 f and 18x11 305/35 r .

Im a total newbie to the whole thing but have been told about the negative camber.

As i will only be tracking probably up to 10 days per year and dont really understand the process, are the GC camber plates absolutely needed or can the adjustment be done by alignment only?


Thanks

[jdherman]

Originally Posted by avantix

Like Pic18 mentionned there is no negative camber adjustment possible in stock form. Negative camber is the "leaning" of the wheel towards the inside of the car. Not achievable via alignment. Assuming you will be using R compound tires on your new wheels, the problem without adding negative camber is the outside shoulder of those soft tires will wear unevenly if driven hard.

I'd recommend not getting the camber plates at first unless you don't mind spending the cash. See if you really enjoy tracking the car. Go a season and see how you feel at the end. If you are still enthused, then put the camber plates on during the offseason.

The car will eat the outside edge of the front tires without the plates. But, it may take you a full season to get up to a pace where this is an issue.

Once you get to that pace you'll cord your outside edges and the rest of the tire is fine. The plates and more negative camber will save you on tires (because they will wear evenly across the tread) and give you better turning.

The best front negative camber I got on my M3 with the M Performance Sports Chassis Retrofit Kit was between -1.3 to -1.5. With the Ground Control kit I am now running -2.5. Tire wear is good and turning is great.

I also recommend moving to a track wheel/tire combo. I use Nitto NT-01s and have been happy.

Don't forget the brake pads. I recommend Ferodo DSUNO pads for front and back.

Jeff

[Dranter]

Originally Posted by jdherman

I'd recommend not getting the camber plates at first unless you don't mind spending the cash. See if you really enjoy tracking the car. Go a season and see how you feel at the end. If you are still enthused, then put the camber plates on during the offseason.

The car will eat the outside edge of the front tires without the plates. But, it may take you a full season to get up to a pace where this is an issue.

Once you get to that pace you'll cord your outside edges and the rest of the tire is fine. The plates and more negative camber will save you on tires (because they will wear evenly across the tread) and give you better turning.

The best front negative camber I got on my M3 with the M Performance Sports Chassis Retrofit Kit was between -1.3 to -1.5. With the Ground Control kit I am now running -2.5. Tire wear is good and turning is great.

I also recommend moving to a track wheel/tire combo. I use Nitto NT-01s and have been happy.

Don't forget the brake pads. I recommend Ferodo DSUNO pads for front and back.

Jeff

Thanks for the reply. Tracking really is a slippery slope in terms of parts

I went to exactly 2 proper track days and absolutely loved it! I feel like an idiot for not tracking the car for almost 3 years of ownership. Fell in love with it again. Cooked the stock pads on day 1 and went through a set of r888s so lets say im hooked

Currently am looking into purchasing ds1.11. As far as i can tell the DSUNO are even more hardcore than the ones above. Personally am worried about destroying the stock rotors with such pads. Not that they havent started cracking already but lets say id like to extend their life to the fullest. Wallet aint bottomless after all.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by Dranter

Thanks for the reply. Tracking really is a slippery slope in terms of parts

I went to exactly 2 proper track days and absolutely loved it! I feel like an idiot for not tracking the car for almost 3 years of ownership. Fell in love with it again. Cooked the stock pads on day 1 and went through a set of r888s so lets say im hooked

Currently am looking into purchasing ds1.11. As far as i can tell the DSUNO are even more hardcore than the ones above. Personally am worried about destroying the stock rotors with such pads. Not that they havent started cracking already but lets say id like to extend their life to the fullest. Wallet aint bottomless after all.

You’re not gonna destroy the rotors with any of these pads. They’ll eventually stress crack, but not for a while, and that’s the case with tracking any steel rotor on any car. Don’t worry so such!

[jdherman]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

You’re not gonna destroy the rotors with any of these pads. They’ll eventually stress crack, but not for a while, and that’s the case with tracking any steel rotor on any car. Don’t worry so such!

I agree with OhioRiderAaron.

Essex hasn't posted my review of the Ferodo DSuno and DS1-11 pads, but you can see it here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I much prefer to the DSuno pads.

BTW, I've found that I don't need to run race brake fluid. The BMW fluid is fine on the M3. I just get it changed at the beginning and middle of the track season. No problems.

[jdherman]

Originally Posted by jdherman

I agree with OhioRiderAaron.

Essex hasn't posted my review of the Ferodo DSuno and DS1-11 pads, but you can see it here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

I much prefer to the DSuno pads.

BTW, I've found that I don't need to run race brake fluid. The BMW fluid is fine on the M3. I just get it changed at the beginning and middle of the track season. No problems.

FYI: You should be able to see my car's details here:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/bpg...=view&id=21178

[Dranter]

Originally Posted by jdherman

FYI: You should be able to see my car's details here:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/bpg...=view&id=21178

Thanks for the thorough answers.

Im going for more or less a similar setup. I will be purchasing the same sized wheels but will probably get other tires as nittos arent very popular where im from and hence hard to find.

I already placed an order for the ds1.11 but since it will be my first set of more serious pads id rather take it step by step. If i still feel these arent up to the task will move onto dsuno with the set after.

Regarding the fluid, ive also encountered several forum members claiming the same so im not worried about it either.

[drroc]

How are the GC camber plates for non-track driving? Also, do people adjust the camber just before the track day, or do you just run with -2.X camber all the time?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by drroc

How are the GC camber plates for non-track driving? Also, do people adjust the camber just before the track day, or do you just run with -2.X camber all the time?

GC street camber plates are always a safe bet when it comes to a camber plate. Very mild for street use, most people won't be able to notice they're even installed.

But no, you don't run on the street with track camber. You can swap it right at the track with a jack and a 13mm wrench. And on top of it, the camber change in M cars has a positive effect on the toe setting as well.
So you can have a street setting which is good on tire wear and then move it into the track setting for your weekend

-------------------
FRONT
Add camber until you get to -2.5 camber. Mark the camber plate at that point for future reference
Toe: 1/8” out total

Then, remove camber until toe changes from 1/8” out total to 3/32” toe in. Mark the camber plates at that point for future reference.
Leave the car in this position

REAR
Camber -1.8
Toe: 1/8” toe in total

[drroc]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

GC street camber plates are always a safe bet when it comes to a camber plate. Very mild for street use, most people won't be able to notice they're even installed.

But no, you don't run on the street with track camber. You can swap it right at the track with a jack and a 13mm wrench. And on top of it, the camber change in M cars has a positive effect on the toe setting as well.
So you can have a street setting which is good on tire wear and then move it into the track setting for your weekend

-------------------
FRONT
Add camber until you get to -2.5 camber. Mark the camber plate at that point for future reference
Toe: 1/8” out total

Then, remove camber until toe changes from 1/8” out total to 3/32” toe in. Mark the camber plates at that point for future reference.
Leave the car in this position

REAR
Camber -1.8
Toe: 1/8” toe in total

So effectively, you come to the track with a floor jack and lift the front end to change the bolt settings? I assume the alignment is done when the bolts are in the "street" configuration, right?

[jdherman]

Originally Posted by drroc

How are the GC camber plates for non-track driving? Also, do people adjust the camber just before the track day, or do you just run with -2.X camber all the time?

I've got a different take on this.

My race shop (agreeing with a knowledgable friend of mine) said that if you changed the position of the camber plates from track to street or vice versa you'd need to align the car again. I don't want to have to do that, so I had the car aligned for the track and use that alignment for both track and street.

I'm also happy to minimize the number of things I need to do to switch the car from street mode to track mode for an open lapping day or HPDE. Changing the camber plate settings would be an unwanted to-do item. Swapping brake pads and wheel/tires is enough for me.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by drroc

So effectively, you come to the track with a floor jack and lift the front end to change the bolt settings? I assume the alignment is done when the bolts are in the "street" configuration, right?

Or don't dick with anything and leave it at the so-called "track" setting. 2.5deg camber isn't melting tires. I run the whole summer with camber plates ("track settings") and daily drive 50 miles round trip without issue.

The more trackdays you do the more you realize stuffing every single tool in the car is unnecessary and actually increases the chances of you making a mistake (forgetting to torque a bolt, etc.). I haven't even taken a jack or jackstand to the track in over a year.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by drroc

So effectively, you come to the track with a floor jack and lift the front end to change the bolt settings? I assume the alignment is done when the bolts are in the "street" configuration, right?

Yes, if the shop left a mark on the camber plate you simply jack up one side, loosen 3 bolts, move the plate, tighten and you're on your way

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jdherman

I've got a different take on this.

My race shop (agreeing with a knowledgable friend of mine) said that if you changed the position of the camber plates from track to street or vice versa you'd need to align the car again. I don't want to have to do that, so I had the car aligned for the track and use that alignment for both track and street.

I'm also happy to minimize the number of things I need to do to switch the car from street mode to track mode for an open lapping day or HPDE. Changing the camber plate settings would be an unwanted to-do item. Swapping brake pads and wheel/tires is enough for me.

That's because the toe changes when you change camber

Fortunately it changes in the same direction you'd want to move when adding camber, meaning the car can be perfectly set up for the street and also perfectly set up for the track

-2.5 won't destroy tires fast, but if you're driving 10h to the track like I am it's best to have a more street-friendly alignment

[drroc]

Originally Posted by jdherman

I've got a different take on this.

My race shop (agreeing with a knowledgable friend of mine) said that if you changed the position of the camber plates from track to street or vice versa you'd need to align the car again. I don't want to have to do that, so I had the car aligned for the track and use that alignment for both track and street.

I'm also happy to minimize the number of things I need to do to switch the car from street mode to track mode for an open lapping day or HPDE. Changing the camber plate settings would be an unwanted to-do item. Swapping brake pads and wheel/tires is enough for me.

Presumably when you are changing the brake pads/wheels, it would be a very quick item to change the camber plate setting since the car is already lifted. I guess the main question is if doing so would affect the alignment. SYT_Shadow indicates that this is not going to be an issue.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by drroc

Presumably when you are changing the brake pads/wheels, it would be a very quick item to change the camber plate setting since the car is already lifted. I guess the main question is if doing so would affect the alignment. SYT_Shadow indicates that this is not going to be an issue.

Yes, that is correct. It affects toe in exactly the right direction you'd want.

Besides, in my initial post where I say to align to -2.5, you could instead align to -3 and still retain a 'street' setting.

Driving around the street with 1/8" toe out and -2.5 camber is not pleasurable, the car tramlines and is feisty. Toe in is what you want for the street.

But anyway, some people choose to forgo the toe out part of the alignment and instead just align it to -2.5 camber with 0 toe. That way the camber is good for the track and the toe is neutral for the street and neutral for the track.
It isn't ideal, but I also agree with the concept that the less things you touch the less things you risk breaking.

[spyderbret]

Just for reference, I installed the GC camber plates 5 or 6 months ago. I'm running -2.3 with slight toe in. Cant remember exactly the degree but it was minor. I plan to run about 4 track weekends a year with this car and I dont change settings from street to track. So far tire wear has been fine and I like the way it drives on the street and track. A fair compromise for what I want. I have a dedicated track car that I use more than the M3. Since there is no way to exploit this car on the street I have to get it on track every once and a while to have a little extra fun!!!