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      01-03-2015, 12:33 PM   #23
BlackCobra08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
Lol! Let me grab my camera! you have all my support!


The fact the f80 is sub 4,000 lbs, north of 400 lb-ft torque, turbo, front engine RWD (opposed to rear engine RWD sports cars), will make it very different and more tricky to launch in slippery conditions, than say, an M5, M6 or even porsche. Not a lot of company in that category, so it is unique in that way.
Why are people under the impression the throttle only has two modes, 0 and 100% lol. The turbo doesn't make it more tricky at all as long as your not driving like a moron by planting your foot down WOT in sport plus on ice/snow. Also there is no turbo surge especially when you modulate the throttle and are in eco mode. It's not like driving a Porsche 930 Turbo or Ferrari F40 where there was some serious turbo lag, again this was at WOT too.

Last edited by BlackCobra08; 01-03-2015 at 12:40 PM..
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      01-03-2015, 12:35 PM   #24
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Serious question: Why wouldn't you drive your less valuable (presumably) e92 M3 in the snow but have no problem doing it in a brand new F8x?
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      01-03-2015, 12:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCobra08 View Post
Why are people under the impression the throttle only has two modes, 0 and 100% lol. The turbo doesn't make it more tricky at all as long as your not driving like a moron by planting your foot down WOT in sport plus on ice/snow. Also there is no turbo surge especially when you modulate the throttle and are in eco mode. It's not like driving a Porsche 930 Turbo or Ferrari F40 where there was some serious turbo lag, again this was at WOT too.
+1. I had a few RWD BMWs and driving them on snow/ice. You need a set of winter tires and common sense. Feather the throttle and it rolls around like a tank. Remember, our cars are 50/50 balanced unlike other RWD out there.
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      01-03-2015, 01:11 PM   #26
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With proper winter tires, this car will be fine in the snow.

Anything can drive in the snow with winter tires. Anything...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...g-in-the-snow/
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      01-03-2015, 02:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
With proper winter tires, this car will be fine in the snow.

Anything can drive in the snow with winter tires. Anything...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorspo...g-in-the-snow/





By far one of the coolest things I've seen in a while.
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      01-03-2015, 03:02 PM   #28
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Hi, I've been driving the M4 with unstaggered 19" Michelin Alpin PA4.

First, I have to say, these are great tires! I had them on my M5 a couple years ago and wanted nothing less on the M4. You don't give up that much on the dry pavement. Hakka's probably a better choice if you live where snow is a daily reality.

I live in Boston, but I'm from Buffalo, so I know a thing or two about driving in the snow. The M4 with snows does better on the road than an AWD car with all weather tires except a) accelerating rapidly from a stopped position and b) if you get stuck. There is no problem going up hills. Use common sense and you'll be fine!
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      01-03-2015, 03:19 PM   #29
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The F8X is very easy to drive in winter when shod with good tire. I got the OEM 640M package with the Contis. I find the car is even easier to control than my E46 or E92 M3s. The chassis is so well balanced and with the electronic diff working its magic, you can position the car just as you want it when it gets slippery. At lower speeds, I enjoy driving with DSC off as it allows me to better control the attitude of the car. I use MDM at highway speeds for the added safety. I find full DSC way to intrusive and bogs any forward progress in snow.
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      01-03-2015, 03:20 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonovox View Post
Hi, I've been driving the M4 with unstaggered 19" Michelin Alpin PA4.

First, I have to say, these are great tires! I had them on my M5 a couple years ago and wanted nothing less on the M4. You don't give up that much on the dry pavement. Hakka's probably a better choice if you live where snow is a daily reality.

I live in Boston, but I'm from Buffalo, so I know a thing or two about driving in the snow. The M4 with snows does better on the road than an AWD car with all weather tires except a) accelerating rapidly from a stopped position and b) if you get stuck. There is no problem going up hills. Use common sense and you'll be fine!
Yes.

Winter driving is just about maximizing traction. The fact the car has big HP or torque doesn't prevent traction in the snow, it just means it has to be driven differently.

Snow tires are obvious. What kind you want/need depends on where in Canada you are and how much snow you get. Livein Sask (ie driving on snow or ice for 5 straight months? You'll want something hard core like Nokians). Live in Calgary or southern Ontario? You might want something that is good for the usual/normal days of dry or salted/wet pavement that can also handle the snow when it comes. Michelin PAs or Pirelli sottozeros might work).

Beyond that, as mkoesel made very clear, it depends how you drive.

Mostly you need to worry about getting going. Mash the throttle? You use all that torque and spin your tires uselessly, which will just polish up the ice at each intersection to a perfectly frictionless surface. Good for skating, less so for driving. Gradually let it accelerate (ideally using some engine creep to get you moving with minimal throttle) and you will be fine.

Other smart things include putting sand or salt bags in the trunk (to keep weight over the drive wheels) and taking care in cornering and accelerating while moving.

While I disagree with the poster that said AWD was a scam (it isn't) one has to remember what it does. All AWD does is help you accelerate from a stop. It doesn't help you turn or stop. Driving smart and putting on snow tires does those things. People drove RWD car for many years before AWD or FWD and they did fine, by learning how to drive using their brains, not their HP.

Still, if you absolutely need this car every single day and have no other option in crappy weather, and you need to get where you are going come hell or high water (ie you are a salesman, always out on the road or something and you use this car for business) it probably isn't for you, but neither is your E92.

If you can drive intelligently and, in an absolute.blizzard be able to leave this car at home,you'll be fine.

(And I ask again: storing your existing ride for 7-8 months?? Where in this massive nation do you live? Other than the extreme North there is no part of Canada where winter is anything like that long......???? )
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Last edited by myzmak; 01-03-2015 at 03:31 PM..
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      01-03-2015, 03:27 PM   #31
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I spent more money on winter set than stock 19s lol so no way this car is just going to be some seasonal car. 18 winters are less noiser, softer and well handle very well in the snow compared to 19s lol. Though i cant say i tested 19s in snow. Havent had any real issues even with driving up and down hills around my area. I sure dont try to push or go crazy in snow since i wouldnt be as confident as the Audis that pass by me with their AWD which im am envious off...just for snow conditions.
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      01-03-2015, 04:13 PM   #32
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I daily drive my M4 in Calgary. It's great with a good set of winters on. It snowed like a bastard last night and it's a blast to get around in still. The confused looks from the Audi's and jacked-up bull ball hitch trucks is also entertaining.

Lots of long posts here, but really, just don't drive like a twat and you'll be fine. Know what you're going into and adjust accordingly.
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      01-03-2015, 04:48 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
... The chassis is so well balanced and with the electronic diff working its magic, you can position the car just as you want it when it gets slippery. ...
THIS.
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      01-03-2015, 04:57 PM   #34
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Traction is not the issue driving an M3 in snow. The risk of exterior damage is. Rock chips, cracked windows, damaged wheels, damaged front aero pieces, getting hit by the "I'm invincible in my 3 ton SUV on all weather tires" crowd etc.

There's fun to be had for the brave though, as anyone who have done this know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=M64flyqIrrk

Last edited by solstice; 01-03-2015 at 05:02 PM..
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      01-03-2015, 05:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The F8X is very easy to drive in winter when shod with good tire. I got the OEM 640M package with the Contis. I find the car is even easier to control than my E46 or E92 M3s. The chassis is so well balanced and with the electronic diff working its magic, you can position the car just as you want it when it gets slippery. At lower speeds, I enjoy driving with DSC off as it allows me to better control the attitude of the car. I use MDM at highway speeds for the added safety. I find full DSC way to intrusive and bogs any forward progress in snow.
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      01-03-2015, 07:49 PM   #36
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Not sure about the newer ones, but I had an E36 in the snow and it was all over the road even with snow tires. But I did come out of it a better driver.
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      01-03-2015, 08:19 PM   #37
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Not sure about the newer ones, but I had an E36 in the snow and it was all over the road even with snow tires. But I did come out of it a better driver.

My 330i e90 was all over the place too. But granted, Michelin alpin snow tires are nothing to write home about. And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to driving.

I can drive my 335i xDrive with all seasons like a proper maniac, and barely loose traction. It just inspires more confidence. The problem is the 90% of the time when you don't need the xDrive, the tall and soft suspension is a drag! It's all about compromise.
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      01-03-2015, 08:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to driving.

I can drive my 335i xDrive with all seasons like a proper maniac, and barely loose traction. It just inspires more confidence.
The problem is the 90% of the time when you don't need the xDrive, the tall and soft suspension is a drag! It's all about comprmise.
Stating that an AWD car on all seasons inspires more confidence than a car on dedicated winters (no matter how performance oriented) indicates that you've not been properly trained on how to drive in the snow, and what to look for. Just by your statement, it's obvious that you're focused on motive traction, and little else.
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      01-03-2015, 08:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by X2Board View Post
I suspect it will be pretty much like my '03 E55 AMG. Steep terrain may be an issue if you can't maintain steady momentum. Other than that, you should be fine. Your tire choice will be the most important factor. Are you allowed to run studded tires where you live?
+1, 6MT would help a little as well, it's all momentum management, unfortunately you can't do much about the other drivers around you who think that tackling a hill by stopping 1/2 way up or going 2 MPH will get you every time...Drove a 2wd pickup with non-locking diff for years in northeast and here to tell about it...M3 couldn't be worse that that beast was, put it on narrower winters and baby the throttle, throw 100# in the trunk if necessary.
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      01-03-2015, 09:06 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo View Post
And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to driving.

I can drive my 335i xDrive with all seasons like a proper maniac, and barely loose traction. It just inspires more confidence. The problem is the 90% of the time when you don't need the xDrive, the tall and soft suspension is a drag! It's all about comprmise.
Stating that an AWD car on all seasons inspires more confidence than a car on dedicated winters (no matter how performance oriented) indicates that you've not been properly trained at how to drive in the snow, and what to look for. Just by your statement, it's obvious that you're focused on motive traction, and little else.
To be comfortable with a RWD car in the snow, you need to know how to waltz

Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-03-2015 at 09:29 PM..
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      01-03-2015, 09:54 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
To be comfortable with a RWD car in the snow, you need to know how to waltz
Haha.

I grew up driving RWD 5MT in the snow. Then we got Blizzaks. My Supra was unstoppable with 100 lbs of sand in the trunk.
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      01-03-2015, 10:10 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Stating that an AWD car on all seasons inspires more confidence than a car on dedicated winters (no matter how performance oriented) indicates that you've not been properly trained on how to drive in the snow, and what to look for. Just by your statement, it's obvious that you're focused on motive traction, and little else.
How does one become "properly trained" at driving in the snow?
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      01-03-2015, 10:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falafel Combo
How does one become "properly trained" at driving in the snow?
You get properly trained by someone who knows how to do it showing you. Then you practice where you can't get hurt until you feel comfortable controlling the car.
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      01-04-2015, 09:22 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4TW View Post
You can read my full review here.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1062820

The M4 is actually a pretty good winter car. The cab is surprisingly well insulated. The heater is one of the best I've ever owned (tip: point the side vents up toward the windows to keep them clear). Heated seats and steering wheel work great. The engine warms up fast and starts well in frigid temperatures.

The active suspension in comfort is a joy over ruts and packed snow. It handles like a dream, snapping around corners and you have to actually work to kick the tail out. I haven't run into any problems with clearance, though I've had to straddle some ruts.

The hp and torque are not a big deal if you are in efficiency mode. Even if you're not, you can control it with your foot. As mentioned in my review, MDM intervenes way too much. For starting out up a hill on packed snow, or when stuck, turn DSC all the way off and start in second.

I'm going to take her out today for some more testing. It's -30 C and we just had a big dump of snow that's been packed down to ice in a lot of places.

Awesome post! Any updates from yesterdays escapades?
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