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      10-27-2015, 07:59 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaynardZed View Post
This.

I hate wasting expensive SRF fluid and hate the thought of "reusing" fluid that has been sitting in the bleeder bottle. I can usually do two corners before having to refill the master cylinder reservoir, so only really need to disconnect the pressure bleeder once. I haven't worried about a clamp, just unscrew the bleeder top slowly while under pressure.
so are you doing a full "flush" every 6 months and just bleed a little before each event if you're doing them more frequently than every 6 months?

good tip guys!
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      01-09-2016, 02:08 PM   #68
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Anti-squeal shims & paste?

I notice in this photo that the OEM pads have anti-squeal shims but the Pagids do not. When I did pad replacements as a kid back in the 80s, I'd normally transfer the shims to the new pads, and use some new paste.

Would you normally use shims/paste with a track pad?

(I'm asking because I had some Endless MX72 pads fitted to my M4 and after multiple attempts to re-bed, they still squeal like a stuck pig when coming to a standstill with warm brakes - wondering whether it's worth taking them out and re-fitting with extra anti-squeal)
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      01-09-2016, 03:11 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar
I notice in this photo that the OEM pads have anti-squeal shims but the Pagids do not. When I did pad replacements as a kid back in the 80s, I'd normally transfer the shims to the new pads, and use some new paste.

Would you normally use shims/paste with a track pad?

(I'm asking because I had some Endless MX72 pads fitted to my M4 and after multiple attempts to re-bed, they still squeal like a stuck pig when coming to a standstill with warm brakes - wondering whether it's worth taking them out and re-fitting with extra anti-squeal)
I considered swapping the plates but I think after 1/2second I stopped. If I recall the plates are stuck on with adhesive .. I didn't want to risk damaging them. I could be wrong as this was a while ago that I did this. I just use a fair amount of antisqueal lately. once the rs29 pads were bedded they made much less noise. not sure if the compound has much to do with the dump-truck squeal, that's probably more from pad on rotor and I think properly bedding would do the trick. I'm not positive though, sorry!
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      01-10-2016, 05:56 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar
I notice in this photo that the OEM pads have anti-squeal shims but the Pagids do not. When I did pad replacements as a kid back in the 80s, I'd normally transfer the shims to the new pads, and use some new paste.

Would you normally use shims/paste with a track pad?

(I'm asking because I had some Endless MX72 pads fitted to my M4 and after multiple attempts to re-bed, they still squeal like a stuck pig when coming to a standstill with warm brakes - wondering whether it's worth taking them out and re-fitting with extra anti-squeal)
The OEM anti-squeal shims are non removable. They are also not designed to withstand track usage: before I put pagids in I did a track day on the OEM pads and the shim pads cracked and melted, so now they are gone
I use some anti-squeal paste on the pagids, just for the sake of it. When bedded in well they are hardly louder than stock on the street.
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      01-10-2016, 09:16 AM   #71
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^ Lojs nailed it.
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      01-10-2016, 07:28 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
I notice in this photo that the OEM pads have anti-squeal shims but the Pagids do not. When I did pad replacements as a kid back in the 80s, I'd normally transfer the shims to the new pads, and use some new paste.

Would you normally use shims/paste with a track pad?

(I'm asking because I had some Endless MX72 pads fitted to my M4 and after multiple attempts to re-bed, they still squeal like a stuck pig when coming to a standstill with warm brakes - wondering whether it's worth taking them out and re-fitting with extra anti-squeal)
I have the MX72 for track days and they don't squeal for me at all. I used them for road use for about 3 months as well with no squeal.
Did have a minimal amount of anti squeal put on them.
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      01-10-2016, 07:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
I have the MX72 for track days and they don't squeal for me at all. I used them for road use for about 3 months as well with no squeal.
Did have a minimal amount of anti squeal put on them.
Hi MaX PL - can you share your track experience with those pads ? My stock pads have like 40% left and I'm looking for another set I can use for DD and AX/track events.
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      01-10-2016, 07:54 PM   #74
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Well first I'd like to state that this is the first car I've ever taken on track and the first time using the MX72. I have not used any other car/brakes on track.

With that said, and I have nothing to compare them to, they were perfect in the sense that I lost no braking performance during any of my track days. I used them in combination with the Endless RF650 brake fluid and never lost confidence in my stopping ability.

My instructors both commented that the brakes on this car are amazing.
If you've ever driven at Lime Rock, I was stopping at the 5 on the main straight all day with ease.

After removing them and going back to stock pads, I noticed an immediate difference in bite. The stocks bite much sooner during daily driving I feel, and I like that, but I'm not sure why that difference exists.

I should note that these things are extremely expensive and the only reason I bought them was because the Pagids RS29s were sold out everywhere last summer when I was looking, and I needed brakes immediately for a track day. I think I paid close to $850 for brakes and fluid.

I will likely go to Pagids once these wear out, not because I dislike the MX72, but to get an idea of what the competition has to offer for less money.
Again, I was extremely impressed by the MX72 and will buy again if the Pagids are not as good.
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      01-10-2016, 09:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL
Well first I'd like to state that this is the first car I've ever taken on track and the first time using the MX72. I have not used any other car/brakes on track.

With that said, and I have nothing to compare them to, they were perfect in the sense that I lost no braking performance during any of my track days. I used them in combination with the Endless RF650 brake fluid and never lost confidence in my stopping ability.

My instructors both commented that the brakes on this car are amazing.
If you've ever driven at Lime Rock, I was stopping at the 5 on the main straight all day with ease.

After removing them and going back to stock pads, I noticed an immediate difference in bite. The stocks bite much sooner during daily driving I feel, and I like that, but I'm not sure why that difference exists.

I should note that these things are extremely expensive and the only reason I bought them was because the Pagids RS29s were sold out everywhere last summer when I was looking, and I needed brakes immediately for a track day. I think I paid close to $850 for brakes and fluid.

I will likely go to Pagids once these wear out, not because I dislike the MX72, but to get an idea of what the competition has to offer for less money.
Again, I was extremely impressed by the MX72 and will buy again if the Pagids are not as good.
good input man! may want to copy/paste this info into one of the "which pads are you using?" type threads if you haven't already. I found myself constantly over braking at COTA recently with the RS29s. I also noticed how much the brakes overpower the MPSS when I moved to MPSS from NT01 (getting ready to head home and it HAD been raining but actually dried out pretty well throughout the 60min session.. MPSS couldn't keep up at all)
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      01-23-2016, 08:37 PM   #76
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Great post! Thanks to everyone that has contributed.

What's the best way to make sure you don't have air bubbles in your brake lines?

If I just want to swap out my pads, not fluid, do I need to use the 29100 Quick Quad pad spreader?
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      01-23-2016, 08:49 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol View Post
Actually, brakes are included unless the M is different. Just got brakes done under warranty on my 6GC.
+1
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      01-24-2016, 12:10 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stunnaM3 View Post
Great post! Thanks to everyone that has contributed.

What's the best way to make sure you don't have air bubbles in your brake lines?

If I just want to swap out my pads, not fluid, do I need to use the 29100 Quick Quad pad spreader?
nope.

i really don't know why anyone would ever need one of those.
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      03-15-2016, 04:40 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
nope.

i really don't know why anyone would ever need one of those.
Necessary no. Helpful, absolutely. Unless you are one of those guys that likes to jimmy the old pad or a block of wood between the pistons and the rotor then expand it with a screwdriver or something. The tool makes it so you literally just pull the pads, stick it in, pump a couple of times, then slide the new pads in.
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      04-02-2016, 11:59 AM   #80
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Hey guys... was hoping you can help with this weird issue. I followed the directions to the T, pressurized bleeder to 15lbs, and started bleeding my rear passenger brakes. I turned the valve slowly, and the fluid starting flowing to catch bottle, but only for a little bit. I turned the valve even more but no fluid was flowing. I thought I needed to turn more so I did that, and still nothing. I think I turned too much, because a little brake fluid was coming out from the valve so I just tightened it back up and called it a day.

Did I mess up a step? It's been driving me crazy that I couldn't finish it since no fluid came out.

When I unscrewed the power bleeder cap from the brake reservoir in the hood, I noticed that the fluid was at the brim. Makes me think that the fluid was not flowing through to the system and was just "stuck" in the brake reservoir hence the fluid not flowing out of the rear caliper.

What would cause this?
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      04-03-2016, 11:20 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23 View Post
Hey guys... was hoping you can help with this weird issue. I followed the directions to the T, pressurized bleeder to 15lbs, and started bleeding my rear passenger brakes. I turned the valve slowly, and the fluid starting flowing to catch bottle, but only for a little bit. I turned the valve even more but no fluid was flowing. I thought I needed to turn more so I did that, and still nothing. I think I turned too much, because a little brake fluid was coming out from the valve so I just tightened it back up and called it a day.

Did I mess up a step? It's been driving me crazy that I couldn't finish it since no fluid came out.
Based on your description, you did not have enough pressure pushing the old fluid out. Once you opened the caliper valve, gravity allowed some fluid to come out. Then gravity was counteracted by something (vacuum between the fluid reservoir and power bleeder) that prevented any more fluid from coming out.

What power bleeder are you using?
How is it connected to the brake reservoir?
Can you induce fluid to come out when it's not connected to the brake fluid reservoir?

My power bleeder has a screw-clamp that allows you to interrupt the flow on demand (e.g.: bleed the brakes, then swap the pads). Does yours have something similar? Was it open or closed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23 View Post
When I unscrewed the power bleeder cap from the brake reservoir in the hood, I noticed that the fluid was at the brim. Makes me think that the fluid was not flowing through to the system and was just "stuck" in the brake reservoir hence the fluid not flowing out of the rear caliper.
Fluid can not get "stuck".
Somehow, your power bleeder setup was preventing gravity bleeding, never mind pressuring the fluid to expedite its exit.

a
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      04-04-2016, 03:09 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
Based on your description, you did not have enough pressure pushing the old fluid out. Once you opened the caliper valve, gravity allowed some fluid to come out. Then gravity was counteracted by something (vacuum between the fluid reservoir and power bleeder) that prevented any more fluid from coming out.

What power bleeder are you using?
How is it connected to the brake reservoir?
Can you induce fluid to come out when it's not connected to the brake fluid reservoir?

My power bleeder has a screw-clamp that allows you to interrupt the flow on demand (e.g.: bleed the brakes, then swap the pads). Does yours have something similar? Was it open or closed?




Fluid can not get "stuck".
Somehow, your power bleeder setup was preventing gravity bleeding, never mind pressuring the fluid to expedite its exit.

a
Thanks for your response. The bleeder I got was the one mentioned in the original DIY post (Motiv brand) where I pumped it to 15psi, which was attached to the brake fluid reservoir.

I think you may be right about not flowing through. When gave up and unscrewed the brake reservoir cap, it was filled to the brim, making me think that the fluid from the bleeder that was pumped into the reservoir, did not flow through the system. Not sure why nothing flowed.

When I turn off my car, I typically step on the brake all the way, then turn off ignition (with brake still pressed), and pull up my e-brake (habit from my manual days).

Do you think pressing the brake then turning off the ignition has anything to do with the fluid not flowing from reservoir to the calipers?

Thanks again!
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      04-04-2016, 04:13 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23 View Post
Thanks for your response. The bleeder I got was the one mentioned in the original DIY post (Motiv brand) where I pumped it to 15psi, which was attached to the brake fluid reservoir.

I think you may be right about not flowing through. When gave up and unscrewed the brake reservoir cap, it was filled to the brim, making me think that the fluid from the bleeder that was pumped into the reservoir, did not flow through the system. Not sure why nothing flowed.

When I turn off my car, I typically step on the brake all the way, then turn off ignition (with brake still pressed), and pull up my e-brake (habit from my manual days).

Do you think pressing the brake then turning off the ignition has anything to do with the fluid not flowing from reservoir to the calipers?

Thanks again!
Why in the world would you press on the brake when shutting off? On a flat surface you put the manual in gear. on an incline on e-brake. Having the brake pads pressed against the rotors over a longer period is a very bad idea.

I am pretty sure that is the reason your fluid did not flow.
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      04-14-2016, 12:52 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkl23 View Post
When I turn off my car, I typically step on the brake all the way, then turn off ignition (with brake still pressed), and pull up my e-brake (habit from my manual days).

Do you think pressing the brake then turning off the ignition has anything to do with the fluid not flowing from reservoir to the calipers?
I really don't know.
The pedal should come back into rest position after you release it, so it shouldn't matter. Unless it does, somehow ;-)

It's been a few days - have you tried bleeding again without stomping on the brake pedal before turning ignition off ?

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      04-15-2016, 05:26 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afadeev View Post
I really don't know.
The pedal should come back into rest position after you release it, so it shouldn't matter. Unless it does, somehow ;-)

It's been a few days - have you tried bleeding again without stomping on the brake pedal before turning ignition off ?

a
Havent you ever noticed how the brake pedal "sticks in" if you pump it several times with the engine off?

BTW just bled my brake over the weekend. Everything flows like a river.
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      05-18-2016, 11:26 AM   #86
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I did my first brake bleed on my F80 last week. One suggestion that I would make is to use a knife to trim the four barbs on the spokes of the filter "basket" that sits in the reservoir opening. Those barbs make taking the basket out (to siphon the old fluid) a PITA.

Also, this was the first track event where the organizers tested my brake fluid. It turns out that you can buy a tester for $15 through amazon, so I imagine that track rats will be seeing this more and more. We were required to allow access to the reservoir (I overlooked that detail). This meant that I had to remove the black plastic cover over the brake fluid reservoir. Because of this, I'll likely cut an access hole and create a makeshift cover to simplify the bleeding and testing processes.
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      05-31-2016, 11:05 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thank you for the DIY

It proved very useful for me before swapping my pads this morning.

The new calipers on the the F8X sure are sweet, makes changing pads a real breeze .

Anyone have a clue on how many time the retaining pins can be re-used?
Has anyone ever come to any consensus as to how many times the retaining pins can be re-used? I've now done one swap from stock to Pagid RS29 and back to stock (which I assume is fine for the pins - but not sure if I should go ahead and order some replacements, and if so - are there any "wear" signs for when to replace the pins, or a rule of thumb as to how many times)? Thanks,
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      06-01-2016, 01:22 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Thank you for the DIY

It proved very useful for me before swapping my pads this morning.

The new calipers on the the F8X sure are sweet, makes changing pads a real breeze .

Anyone have a clue on how many time the retaining pins can be re-used?
Has anyone ever come to any consensus as to how many times the retaining pins can be re-used? I've now done one swap from stock to Pagid RS29 and back to stock (which I assume is fine for the pins - but not sure if I should go ahead and order some replacements, and if so - are there any "wear" signs for when to replace the pins, or a rule of thumb as to how many times)? Thanks,
Consensus? I don't even recall a debate on this. I have made 5-6 swaps so far, don't see why they would "wear".
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