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      08-13-2015, 11:24 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikster View Post
It's a sad state of affairs when $80k+ cars become "disposable" after only 3-4 years. Conditioning consumers into constant churn that wastes resources up-and-downstream of the production cycle, including money.
I suspect many of those sensors are there to hit emissions standards. I wonder how much better off the global environment is then when all things are considered.
M
I've had zero sensor troubles with my 100k E90. The relatively modest maintenance I've needed has been standard car stuff. Axel, brakes, etc. Electronics in cars are built to be pretty hardy. Let's not fall into the false narrative that they're all made of glass.
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      08-13-2015, 11:29 AM   #46
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don't buy extended warranties. they are nonsense....you're just losing money and making the warranty companies get a big profit.

instead USE that money to maintain your car well after your warranty. Aggressive maintenance makes things predictable rather than surprising.

I have 67k miles on my 1M and the warranty ran out at 50k miles. Dropped it today to the dealer for an oil change and a carbon intake cleaning. My car has been pretty much bulletproof aside from High-Pressure Fuel pump problems which have an extended service warranty straight from BMW USA for a faulty part they have been improving over the years. No issues since the replacement.

Most of your cars will be under warranty for a while, so make sure they do everything they should be doing as a part of your warranty.

AFTER that? Aggressive fluid changes (diff, brakes, transmission, coolant, steering, etc) and follow the OLD SCHOOL BMW maintenance schedule from the BMWCCA (search for it).

These are sophisticated cars, but they are NOT impossible to maintain. Have some confidence. Cars these days are WAY more reliable than they used to be. Getting to a 100k in a modern car is like getting to 40k miles in an older car. Don't let them sit...drive them hard....sleep well
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      08-13-2015, 11:35 AM   #47
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Honestly, it's hard to say with first generation BMW cars. Especially when it come to first generation twin turbos.

The 2007 335i that came out late '06 was quite tragic. Plagued with multiple drivability/fuel issues. BMW bought back countless amounts as lemons..hopefully the F8x platform doesn't follow that suit.

That is why I leased mine. Give it a nice run and see how it goes. If I can't find another car with the same fun factor and all-around performance this car gives me then I'll consider buying another M3!
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      08-13-2015, 12:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
don't buy extended warranties. they are nonsense....you're just losing money and making the warranty companies get a big profit.

instead USE that money to maintain your car well after your warranty. Aggressive maintenance makes things predictable rather than surprising.

I have 67k miles on my 1M and the warranty ran out at 50k miles. Dropped it today to the dealer for an oil change and a carbon intake cleaning. My car has been pretty much bulletproof aside from High-Pressure Fuel pump problems which have an extended service warranty straight from BMW USA for a faulty part they have been improving over the years. No issues since the replacement.

Most of your cars will be under warranty for a while, so make sure they do everything they should be doing as a part of your warranty.

AFTER that? Aggressive fluid changes (diff, brakes, transmission, coolant, steering, etc) and follow the OLD SCHOOL BMW maintenance schedule from the BMWCCA (search for it).

These are sophisticated cars, but they are NOT impossible to maintain. Have some confidence. Cars these days are WAY more reliable than they used to be. Getting to a 100k in a modern car is like getting to 40k miles in an older car. Don't let them sit...drive them hard....sleep well
Quote:
Originally Posted by rr006rbc View Post
Honestly, it's hard to say with first generation BMW cars. Especially when it come to first generation twin turbos.

The 2007 335i that came out late '06 was quite tragic. Plagued with multiple drivability/fuel issues. BMW bought back countless amounts as lemons..hopefully the F8x platform doesn't follow that suit.

That is why I leased mine. Give it a nice run and see how it goes. If I can't find another car with the same fun factor and all-around performance this car gives me then I'll consider buying another M3!
If you lease, can you like buy that car after your lease term? If, so how much? I guess it will depend?
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      08-13-2015, 12:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
If you lease, can you like buy that car after your lease term? If, so how much? I guess it will depend?
The buyout price of your lease is determined at purchase by the terms of the agreement based on the residual value set by BMW.
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      08-13-2015, 01:20 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
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Originally Posted by georgere View Post
Previous generations required special oil, short change intervals,


The baseline recommended oil change interval on both my E46 and E92 M3s was 20k km (12k miles) and 25k km (15k miles) respectively...

I kept both cars for 7 and 6 years respectively and put over 100 track days on each, never had an engine issue following the BMW oil change intervals. Since I tracked regularly, the on-board calculated intervals were reduced to about 15~20k km, but I still don't consider this "short" intervals.
Thank you for correction
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      08-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #51
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Here's my example of why I lease. Not an M but a BMW. In 2003 I purchased an X5 4.4L Sport for $62K I think. Hey I'm going to drive this thing forever. 4 years later at 11-14mpg at $5.00 per gallon with the new X5 coming out, I still stuck to my guns. Then the rotors were warping and needed to be replaced. $3,000. AC was getting weak so I looked at Autotrader. Similar cars were going for $25-$32K. With the engine light coming on, I wanted to drop dat shit like a hot potato lol. At the height of the recession I was only offered $23k. So I hung on. The new X5's looked, drove way better and consumed less gas. I was done. Sold it for $25k. Never again.
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      08-13-2015, 01:44 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
Here's my example of why I lease. Not an M but a BMW. In 2003 I purchased an X5 4.4L Sport for $62K I think. Hey I'm going to drive this thing forever. 4 years later at 11-14mpg at $5.00 per gallon with the new X5 coming out, I still stuck to my guns. Then the rotors were warping and needed to be replaced. $3,000. AC was getting weak so I looked at Autotrader. Similar cars were going for $25-$32K. With the engine light coming on, I wanted to drop dat shit like a hot potato lol. At the height of the recession I was only offered $23k. So I hung on. The new X5's looked, drove way better and consumed less gas. I was done. Sold it for $25k. Never again.
you could probably do all 4 rotors yourself for less than a grand including new brake pads.
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      08-13-2015, 03:10 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomeacow View Post
you could probably do all 4 rotors yourself for less than a grand including new brake pads.
Upgrading rotors on my hobby car on a weekend? fine. Spending my weekend afternoon changing my X5 rotors? nah. I sold that shieet.
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      08-13-2015, 03:11 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
If you buy the car, it will depreciate and you lose money. When you lease you pay for the depreciation. You pay a little more but you are not stuck with the car. Like renting a car. Have fun with a new car and give it back. Just don't lease a used car
But let"s say you lease 2 F80s over the course of 8 years, 1 every 4 years, you will pay more than simply buying the first F80 and keeping it over 8 year and repairing it, no?
Generally speaking, yes. Low mileage drivers should buy and high mileage drivers should lease. This is the maxim that has served me well.
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      08-13-2015, 03:13 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomeacow
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4awd View Post
Here's my example of why I lease. Not an M but a BMW. In 2003 I purchased an X5 4.4L Sport for $62K I think. Hey I'm going to drive this thing forever. 4 years later at 11-14mpg at $5.00 per gallon with the new X5 coming out, I still stuck to my guns. Then the rotors were warping and needed to be replaced. $3,000. AC was getting weak so I looked at Autotrader. Similar cars were going for $25-$32K. With the engine light coming on, I wanted to drop dat shit like a hot potato lol. At the height of the recession I was only offered $23k. So I hung on. The new X5's looked, drove way better and consumed less gas. I was done. Sold it for $25k. Never again.
you could probably do all 4 rotors yourself for less than a grand including new brake pads.
Exactly. 3k for pads and rotors all around on an x5. That is just nuts.
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      08-13-2015, 03:22 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp View Post
Exactly. 3k for pads and rotors all around on an x5. That is just nuts.
Yeah and with what I found out looking around... most of the maintenance cost is the "premium" labor dealerships charge. So I intend to do most DIY on my F80 and well if I can't, I can always last resort to someone or dealer.
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      08-13-2015, 03:33 PM   #57
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So far the F8x is looking pretty reliable from an outside view. I see the cars everywhere in NYC. Some members on forums had some terrible gremlins with their cars but most have been taken car of thanks to lemon laws. With that I can say the F8x are as reliable as any other car.

Actually so far its better than expected. People are definitely happy with the MPG they're getting. Additionally its not burning oil like the E9x did and no one had to add a quart of oil per another threads in the forums.

Really, the F8x community is guaranteed to get together (if not already) to find ways to keep costs down as possible. YOU are the warranty when the factory warranty expires. There will certainly be cheaper parts and OEM style replacements with time. Really I can only say this will get expensive if you keep buying parts directly with BMW rather than looking what the community has come up with as alternatives.

With that, I too hope to have an F80 as my everyday and long term car. When the day finally comes that it costs more to maintain than to buy a new car, that's when I'll part with it.
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      08-13-2015, 03:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
But let"s say you lease 2 F80s over the course of 8 years, 1 every 4 years, you will pay more than simply buying the first F80 and keeping it over 8 year and repairing it, no?
Not necessarily. Guessing a residual of around 50% for a 4 year lease, you'd pay for one car's depreciation over eight years (50% x 2). Interest would likely be a higher in the leases, but you'd also be out less cash for down payment, have 2 new cars during those eight years and never own the car out of warranty / BMW ultimate service periods.
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      08-13-2015, 03:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
But let"s say you lease 2 F80s over the course of 8 years, 1 every 4 years, you will pay more than simply buying the first F80 and keeping it over 8 year and repairing it, no?
Not necessarily. Guessing a residual of around 50% for a 4 year lease, you'd pay for one car's depreciation over eight years (50% x 2). Interest would likely be a higher in the leases, but you'd also be out less cash for down payment, have 2 new cars during those eight years and never own the car out of warranty / BMW ultimate service periods.
Keep in mind though, the 8 year old car will have some value and how much depends on many factors. I still think low mileage drivers should buy and high mileage drivers should lease. If you really drive 10k miles a year, leasing makes little sense since you will not even hit 100k miles in 8 years. If you are like me and hit 100k miles in 3.5 years, leasing looks much better.
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      08-13-2015, 03:58 PM   #60
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I have no idea on the F8X, but I do daily a 98 523i with 5MT. Beast does at least 120mph twice a day, to and from work and has nearly 150K miles on the clock. I have put about 16K miles on her in the year she has been mine. Did a quick tune up, plugs, belts, coolant, filters, oil, etc. when I got her and have had nothing but a pesky twice replaced (by me) crank sensor be a pain.

I think as others have stated if you stay on top of the maint yourself the cars stay happy and affordable for a long period of time. Treat them poorly and they will break (your wallet) often at dealer prices for work.
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      08-13-2015, 06:06 PM   #61
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      08-13-2015, 06:13 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
But let"s say you lease 2 F80s over the course of 8 years, 1 every 4 years, you will pay more than simply buying the first F80 and keeping it over 8 year and repairing it, no?
Not necessarily. Guessing a residual of around 50% for a 4 year lease, you'd pay for one car's depreciation over eight years (50% x 2). Interest would likely be a higher in the leases, but you'd also be out less cash for down payment, have 2 new cars during those eight years and never own the car out of warranty / BMW ultimate service periods.
Keep in mind though, the 8 year old car will have some value and how much depends on many factors. I still think low mileage drivers should buy and high mileage drivers should lease. If you really drive 10k miles a year, leasing makes little sense since you will not even hit 100k miles in 8 years. If you are like me and hit 100k miles in 3.5 years, leasing looks much better.
Fair enough but having previously owned 8-10 year old cars residual value isn't much if you are around 100K miles - might recover the difference in down payment for purchase vs. lease. BMW lease residuals are too good to purchase, particularly if you deduct car expenses like I do.
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      08-13-2015, 06:21 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikster
It's a sad state of affairs when $80k+ cars become "disposable" after only 3-4 years. Conditioning consumers into constant churn that wastes resources up-and-downstream of the production cycle, including money.
I suspect many of those sensors are there to hit emissions standards. I wonder how much better off the global environment is then when all things are considered.
M
I had my last two cars for eight years. This M3 is such an outstanding machine it causes me no pause at all to say I will have it for at least the same amount of time.

I also have no doubt the next generation of M cars will be 'better' than mine. However, that will not a) make me want to get a new one b) like the one I have any less. I'm very good at getting what I want the first time around with no regrets after the purchase.
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      08-13-2015, 06:24 PM   #64
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I've kept my E85 Z4 for 12 years and it drives just like it's new. No explosive costs, just regular maintenance.

I'd certainly hope that would be the case with the F83 I'm considering replacing it with.
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      08-13-2015, 08:21 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAL2GK View Post
I've kept my E85 Z4 for 12 years and it drives just like it's new. No explosive costs, just regular maintenance.

I'd certainly hope that would be the case with the F83 I'm considering replacing it with.
We all do, but old school NA motors and fewer electronics are different beast from the modern cars.

I personally have the Geico MBI and will make a call on whether to keep or sell in 5-7 years. Hope it is a keeper, loving my M3.. one of the best 4 dr cars out there
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      08-13-2015, 09:10 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFLM4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal View Post
But let"s say you lease 2 F80s over the course of 8 years, 1 every 4 years, you will pay more than simply buying the first F80 and keeping it over 8 year and repairing it, no?
Not necessarily. Guessing a residual of around 50% for a 4 year lease, you'd pay for one car's depreciation over eight years (50% x 2). Interest would likely be a higher in the leases, but you'd also be out less cash for down payment, have 2 new cars during those eight years and never own the car out of warranty / BMW ultimate service periods.
Keep in mind though, the 8 year old car will have some value and how much depends on many factors. I still think low mileage drivers should buy and high mileage drivers should lease. If you really drive 10k miles a year, leasing makes little sense since you will not even hit 100k miles in 8 years. If you are like me and hit 100k miles in 3.5 years, leasing looks much better.
Fair enough but having previously owned 8-10 year old cars residual value isn't much if you are around 100K miles - might recover the difference in down payment for purchase vs. lease. BMW lease residuals are too good to purchase, particularly if you deduct car expenses like I do.
E9x m3s with 100k miles are going for mid to upper 20s.
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