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      02-01-2019, 12:39 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Only thing I can think of for the lack of PSC2 in the US is litigation concerns.

According to folks that have done the research, the M3cs use the same springs as the base (non-CP) M3, which, as far as I know, have been the same over the entire production span.

It's not an easy call regarding choosing HAS. It's not hard fact, but from what I've read and heard, BMW has not "type approved" the MP-HAS for use on the M3cs while they have on the M4cs. I am not sure why that is though. The KW HAS are even stiffer than the MP-HAS.
I'm not clear on why there would be litigation concerns when fitting Cup2's. Do you mean due to the fact that it's a tyre that requires more heat in them to perform, therefore being potentially more dangerous in the hands of someone who is not aware?

With regards to MP HAS on the M3 CS, I emailed my dealer's parts team for a quote on the suspension and they have told me that it's not compatible with the M3 CS, but it is fine for the M4 CS. They didn't seem to have any knowledge about the M3 CS running different springs to the M4 CS. I don't even understand why they would be different.

I'm assuming this incompatibility with the MP HAS on the M3 CS is due to the 'type approved' situation you mention? I'm aware that many on this forum have fitted the MP HAS to their M3 CS without issue, though I do wonder what the difference would actually be with the suspension fitted to each car if there are differences in the springs as you mention.

If I am to insist on BMW fitting the MP HAS to my M3 CS, and it seems to be against their recommendation, I wonder if that will mean I am not covered by warranty. Perhaps I just need to find a dealer who knows more...

I've got a really good price on the MP HAS which is why I was keen, though I am conscious of testing the access to my office before I go ahead, due to the M3 CS lip coming forward like it does from the front bumper. I wouldn't want to lower the car on MP HAS only for it to tear off the CS lip.
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      02-01-2019, 08:23 AM   #46
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Sadly, Americans complain, whine and threaten to sue constantly. So, pair the poor cold performance with the short tread life and that is probably why we didn't get the Cups on the CS here.
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      02-02-2019, 10:26 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos515 View Post
**I'm writing this on the go and on my phone, so please excuse the grammar*

Well, coming from a 2018 M3 Comp package car. The CS is a different animal. The driving dynamics IMO is a larger step from the Comp car than most people are suggesting. I think people and reviewers have not driven the two cars back to back and are using selective memory to compare the two.

1) The CS while it has more power, is more composed. It doesn't really step out and the tactile feedback is greater. And the ride is actually more supple.

2) You don't need or miss the armrest

3) I seem to be missing some i-drive functions, odd and my dealer is looking into it.

4) f&wk not having comfort access. I miss it, want it and i cant believe its missing.

5) I dig the rotary knobs, they are cool.

6) Some small extended leather pieces missing, on purpose.

7) Frozen haters gonna hate...I never had a matte car before and i've been stopped 3 times today alone.

8) The exhaust could have the same part number, no way is it the same exhaust.

9) No vents in back, my kid will grow up a little tougher and able to withstand the harsher weather conditions. They also have sunshades.
I saw the whining about the armrests, but vents too? Good lord. These people should just get their 911 *yawn* base Carerra then. The CS is meant to be more raw, the 911 Carerra is luxury GT car now. Different buyers and purposes. The days of any semblance of rawness in the 911 finally went away with the 991 generation. And it's the size of small cruise ship now. Beautiful cars, don't get me wrong. But CS and Carerra are not competitors. And the 992 carerra will certainly have a much lower chance or holding value than a CS if that is a consideration. 40,000 production number vs. 1263.
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      02-02-2019, 11:33 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elisiX View Post
I'm not clear on why there would be litigation concerns when fitting Cup2's. Do you mean due to the fact that it's a tyre that requires more heat in them to perform, therefore being potentially more dangerous in the hands of someone who is not aware?

With regards to MP HAS on the M3 CS, I emailed my dealer's parts team for a quote on the suspension and they have told me that it's not compatible with the M3 CS, but it is fine for the M4 CS. They didn't seem to have any knowledge about the M3 CS running different springs to the M4 CS. I don't even understand why they would be different.

I'm assuming this incompatibility with the MP HAS on the M3 CS is due to the 'type approved' situation you mention? I'm aware that many on this forum have fitted the MP HAS to their M3 CS without issue, though I do wonder what the difference would actually be with the suspension fitted to each car if there are differences in the springs as you mention.

If I am to insist on BMW fitting the MP HAS to my M3 CS, and it seems to be against their recommendation, I wonder if that will mean I am not covered by warranty. Perhaps I just need to find a dealer who knows more...

I've got a really good price on the MP HAS which is why I was keen, though I am conscious of testing the access to my office before I go ahead, due to the M3 CS lip coming forward like it does from the front bumper. I wouldn't want to lower the car on MP HAS only for it to tear off the CS lip.
I am not sure why they made the M3cs more softly sprung relative to the M4cs. Maybe they figured it was aimed at a different market segment that would appreciate a more compliant ride.

I found out by inadvertence that the MP-HAS was not "approved" by BMW for the M3cs because my Service Manager inadvertently specified an M3cs when he querried BMW about the HAS for my M4cs. They told him no MP-HAS PN was available for the M3cs. When he querried again for an M4cs they said they had one in stock.

As for "many" folks having successfully installed an MP-HAS on an M3cs, I am not sure that "many" have done so, one or two maybe. robbys3m3 has installed it on his wife's car and Maitre_Absolut is presently attempting to do so, maybe we can get insight from them.
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      02-02-2019, 08:25 PM   #49
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Many was an overstatement on my part.

Agree, it would be great to hear further on this from them.

I’m sure mechanically they fit fine - it’s just that the spring rates/EDC coding may not be as 1:1 on the M3 CS with MP HAS vs. the M4 CS with the same MP HAS.
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      02-02-2019, 08:36 PM   #50
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Picked mine up today and immediately had to wrap the front end up as we got just got snow and I couldn't handle chipping up this beautiful paint.

First impression is definitely noticeable and I can say the CS is completely different than my 16 F80.

The new iDrive is a nice upgrade for sure. I like the thickness of the steering wheel. Steering is more responsive. Don't really miss the arm rest (on my 3 hr drive back). And I love the deep grunt this thing makes. Sounds much different than my mpe on my 16.

However, I will be transferring the MPE to the CS

Overall, very happy with this car!
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      02-02-2019, 10:48 PM   #51
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Looks like Mexico Blue with matte XPEL wrap
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      02-03-2019, 02:25 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
Picked mine up today and immediately had to wrap the front end up as we got just got snow and I couldn't handle chipping up this beautiful paint.

First impression is definitely noticeable and I can say the CS is completely different than my 16 F80.

The new iDrive is a nice upgrade for sure. I like the thickness of the steering wheel. Steering is more responsive. Don't really miss the arm rest (on my 3 hr drive back). And I love the deep grunt this thing makes. Sounds much different than my mpe on my 16.

However, I will be transferring the MPE to the CS

Overall, very happy with this car!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
Picked mine up today and immediately had to wrap the front end up as we got just got snow and I couldn't handle chipping up this beautiful paint.

First impression is definitely noticeable and I can say the CS is completely different than my 16 F80.

The new iDrive is a nice upgrade for sure. I like the thickness of the steering wheel. Steering is more responsive. Don't really miss the arm rest (on my 3 hr drive back). And I love the deep grunt this thing makes. Sounds much different than my mpe on my 16.

However, I will be transferring the MPE to the CS

Overall, very happy with this car!
Stupid question... what does MPE stand for? Please forgive my ignorance. :
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      02-03-2019, 02:28 PM   #53
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Motorsport Performance Exhaust = MPE. It is a BMW M designed titanium constructed built by Akrapovic. Sells for about $5000 USD.
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      02-03-2019, 02:50 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos515 View Post
Motorsport Performance Exhaust = MPE. It is a BMW M designed titanium constructed built by Akrapovic. Sells for about $5000 USD.
The F8X MPE is not made by Akrapovic, it's made by Eberspächer's Prototechnik division.

See page-13 of their brochure.
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      02-03-2019, 03:21 PM   #55
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I can tell you that the exhausts are definitely NOT the same either. My 16 is much louder with MPE than the CS I just got. Super excited to switch them and see the difference.
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      02-03-2019, 03:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
I can tell you that the exhausts are definitely NOT the same either. My 16 is much louder with MPE than the CS I just got. Super excited to switch them and see the difference.
My M3CS is definitely not as loud as my M3 with MPE but in watching the YouTube video review of the car, the M3CS sounds much louder and more aggressive with loud burbles. I'm wondering if I'm just not pushing the car hard enough they pre-break-in or if it jets gets a bit louder over time.
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      02-03-2019, 03:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
The F8X MPE is not made by Akrapovic, it's made by Eberspächer's Prototechnik division.

See page-13 of their brochure.

I stand corrected.
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      02-03-2019, 03:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
I can tell you that the exhausts are definitely NOT the same either. My 16 is much louder with MPE than the CS I just got. Super excited to switch them and see the difference.
You'll really like it . I also swapped out the MPE from my previous M4 to my M4cs and it sounds awesome. I find the MPE actually sounds better on the CS, probably due to the different engine tune.
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      02-03-2019, 03:42 PM   #59
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Regarding the MPSC2's. Do we run the "star spec" M4 GTS Cup2's? Is that what is on the ROW spec CS?
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      02-03-2019, 03:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmg View Post
My M3CS is definitely not as loud as my M3 with MPE but in watching the YouTube video review of the car, the M3CS sounds much louder and more aggressive with loud burbles. I'm wondering if I'm just not pushing the car hard enough they pre-break-in or if it jets gets a bit louder over time.
Not sure if you've tried Sport+ yet, but the CS sounds more aggressive with much louder burbles in Sport+ than in Sport...
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      02-03-2019, 03:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos515 View Post
Regarding the MPSC2's. Do we run the "star spec" M4 GTS Cup2's? Is that what is on the ROW spec CS?
Yes, the CS' PSC2 are the same as the GTS'.

If you do purchase PSC2 for your CS, just be warry of which ones you order as there are 2 star spec 265/35R19. One is the front for the GTS/CS, the other is the rear for the M2's M-Performance 763M wheel/tire package.
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      02-03-2019, 04:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRiggs5 View Post
I can tell you that the exhausts are definitely NOT the same either. My 16 is much louder with MPE than the CS I just got. Super excited to switch them and see the difference.
You'll really like it . I also swapped out the MPE from my previous M4 to my M4cs and it sounds awesome. I find the MPE actually sounds better on the CS, probably due to the different engine tune.
can't wait!
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      02-06-2019, 11:33 PM   #63
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Honestly thinking about picking one up
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      02-07-2019, 07:41 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elisiX View Post
I'm not clear on why there would be litigation concerns when fitting Cup2's. Do you mean due to the fact that it's a tyre that requires more heat in them to perform, therefore being potentially more dangerous in the hands of someone who is not aware?
The main issue is that BMWNA doesn't trust their customer base to understand and exercise good judgement. I'm sure given their experiences, they have substantial reason to not do so.

The PSC2, along with other high hysteresis specialty tires, requires knowledge and care for ambient temperatures. These should never be used below about 30F, and are subject to cracking/permanent damage if subjected to temperatures below that. Witness the Corvette fiasco here in the US where GM shipped cars to dealers through winter conditions and ended up with hundreds of cracked/ruined cars with PSC2s on them.

In general, you should never use these below ~40F and be really, really mindful of temperature if there is a possibility of it falling further. At 40F they are already getting very "hard" (as the rubber compound starts approaching its glass transition temperature). Couple 40F ambient and a wet road, and I can just imagine the legal team at BMWNA saying "no way." I actually agree with them...it wouldn't be worth their litigation hassle.
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      02-07-2019, 08:27 AM   #65
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Great info. That’s for that detail.
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      02-07-2019, 08:58 AM   #66
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Couple more thoughts on subject:

Michelin has warned in the past about driving on PSS (and assume PS4S would fall in that category too) at 20F temps or lower as damage is likely. They also warned in same statement about greatly reduced traction as temps fall to 40F and below (typical of all ultra-high performance tires due to the relatively "high" glass transition temperature needed in their compounding to achieve high levels of grip). Other tire makers have issued similar warnings. GM put out an advisory covering PSC2, PSS, P-Zero, Goodyear F1, etc: https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com...king-1296.html

Here's Tirerack's article on it: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=221

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