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      08-13-2019, 07:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Plus a few guys had failed struts within 2 years of use on the E90.

I'm not sure why Bilsteins QC varies so much when they are the OEM supplier for Nissan GTRs & Porsche for these type of suspensions.
I hear what you're saying, but at this point I wouldn't call my case a QC issue. The stock cables are known to be pretty fickle, so until that can be ruled out, I'm not going to call this instance a QC failure. Something tells me the shock top mount was over torqued and the cable is being pinched. I'm no automotive engineer, but in my opinion the rear shock cable location is pretty moronically designed and looks super prone to failure. Why would the front be designed to be easily unplugged and changed when the rear requires removing the shock? Stupid design.

Wasn't able to drop off my car yesterday, but most likely will today and have some update by Thursday.
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      08-13-2019, 08:34 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Plus a few guys had failed struts within 2 years of use on the E90.

I'm not sure why Bilsteins QC varies so much when they are the OEM supplier for Nissan GTRs & Porsche for these type of suspensions.
I hear what you're saying, but at this point I wouldn't call my case a QC issue. The stock cables are known to be pretty fickle, so until that can be ruled out, I'm not going to call this instance a QC failure. Something tells me the shock top mount was over torqued and the cable is being pinched. I'm no automotive engineer, but in my opinion the rear shock cable location is pretty moronically designed and looks super prone to failure. Why would the front be designed to be easily unplugged and changed when the rear requires removing the shock? Stupid design.

Wasn't able to drop off my car yesterday, but most likely will today and have some update by Thursday.
Absolutely agree. I'm on OEM suspension and those sensors failed on me as well.

But it could also be that the shocks aren't reading the oem sensors as well. More importantly why would they give their own sensors for front and then use OEM in the rears.

I really want to go with the Bilsteins as well due to price and compatibility with DSCsport module over the KWs which aren't compatible from what I read.
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      08-13-2019, 08:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Absolutely agree. I'm on OEM suspension and those sensors failed on me as well.

But it could also be that the shocks aren't reading the oem sensors as well. More importantly why would they give their own sensors for front and then use OEM in the rears.

I really want to go with the Bilsteins as well due to price and compatibility with DSCsport module over the KWs which aren't compatible from what I read.
The reason for the fronts is that the cable plugs into the bottom of the shock in the fronts, the cables are just extension cords really. The rear reuses the factory top shock mount and plugs into same location on shock as stock, so there's no real need to provide their own cable.
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      08-13-2019, 12:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
I'm no automotive engineer, but in my opinion the rear shock cable location is pretty moronically designed and looks super prone to failure. Why would the front be designed to be easily unplugged and changed when the rear requires removing the shock? Stupid design.
Because it's a monotube damper. How else are you going to route a wire to the piston head except through the piston shaft?
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      08-13-2019, 05:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Plus a few guys had failed struts within 2 years of use on the E90.

I'm not sure why Bilsteins QC varies so much when they are the OEM supplier for Nissan GTRs & Porsche for these type of suspensions.

For what it's worth I ran Bilstein PSS coilovers on E60 for 65k miles straight, still going strong without any leaks or blown shocks, ride quality still doesn't bounce or feel like crap. On the F82 I ran PSS10 for 3 years before switching to KW Clubsports 3 ways, mostly due to wanting a linear rate spring / camber kit. I don't think they are unreliable from my experience, quite the opposite actually, extremely reliable it seems.

To the OP, the damptronic vs pss10 seems to be similar kits minus EDC. You aren't wrong that these PSS10 seem to ride stiffer; the PSS10 ride traditionally has been known to be "softer" and "daily driver" compatible but when I ran them for 3 years, I always felt they weren't "soft." Then again, my settings were basically set at nearly full stiff. I'm on KW Clubsport 3 ways now which are supposed to be a lot stiffer, but that wasn't what I felt when I swapped.
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      08-13-2019, 07:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGames View Post
For what it's worth I ran Bilstein PSS coilovers on E60 for 65k miles straight, still going strong without any leaks or blown shocks, ride quality still doesn't bounce or feel like crap. On the F82 I ran PSS10 for 3 years before switching to KW Clubsports 3 ways, mostly due to wanting a linear rate spring / camber kit. I don't think they are unreliable from my experience, quite the opposite actually, extremely reliable it seems.

To the OP, the damptronic vs pss10 seems to be similar kits minus EDC. You aren't wrong that these PSS10 seem to ride stiffer; the PSS10 ride traditionally has been known to be "softer" and "daily driver" compatible but when I ran them for 3 years, I always felt they weren't "soft." Then again, my settings were basically set at nearly full stiff. I'm on KW Clubsport 3 ways now which are supposed to be a lot stiffer, but that wasn't what I felt when I swapped.
Thanks, nice to read the PSS10 comparison. At the very least, after riding in passive mode for so long, I'm sure comfort is going to feel cushy in comparison haha.
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      08-14-2019, 06:53 PM   #29
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Got the car back today. Turns out it was an installation error. The cable installed onto the rear shock was either misaligned or jammed on with too much force, causing a pin on the shock to bend and puncture a separate hole into the plastic portion of the OEM cable. Somehow, this worked for the first ~50 miles or so after install, and would gradually generate a chassis malfunction more quickly every time the car was started until it eventually turned into a permanent error on startup. My mechanic was able to delicately bend the pin on the shock back into place without breaking it, and plug in the new OEM cable I bought with no fitment issues.

Before my mechanic replaced the sensor, he wasn't able to reset the chassis malfunction codes, and after replacement, the car immediately recognized the shock and no error code were in sight. I drove the car home about 15 miles from my mechanic to my house, and so far looks like it's fixed. Will provide an update if anything comes up.

Regarding ride quality, I don't know how much of this is the shocks breaking in during the ~200 miles I drove in passive mode before fixing it, or comfort mode really being that much more compliant, but I'm MUCH happier with the system in comfort mode than I was right after install. I still feel that the stiffness in Comfort mode is between stock Sport and Sport+ (closer to Sport), but the shocks are tackling the crappy Chicago roads very well. There are a couple of spots on a series of expansion joints where at the right speed it bounces a bit, but it's due to the extra stiffness rather than the boat rocking feeling that stock shocks give. I think that in a couple more hundred or thousand miles this kit will wear in nicely, and as long as no EDC issues come up again, so far I'd say I'm much happier with my purchase than I was when I first drove it home before the chassis malfunction came on.

Feel free to ask any questions now that the kit is working correctly again
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      08-17-2019, 07:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
Got the car back today. Turns out it was an installation error. The cable installed onto the rear shock was either misaligned or jammed on with too much force, causing a pin on the shock to bend and puncture a separate hole into the plastic portion of the OEM cable. Somehow, this worked for the first ~50 miles or so after install, and would gradually generate a chassis malfunction more quickly every time the car was started until it eventually turned into a permanent error on startup. My mechanic was able to delicately bend the pin on the shock back into place without breaking it, and plug in the new OEM cable I bought with no fitment issues.

Before my mechanic replaced the sensor, he wasn't able to reset the chassis malfunction codes, and after replacement, the car immediately recognized the shock and no error code were in sight. I drove the car home about 15 miles from my mechanic to my house, and so far looks like it's fixed. Will provide an update if anything comes up.

Regarding ride quality, I don't know how much of this is the shocks breaking in during the ~200 miles I drove in passive mode before fixing it, or comfort mode really being that much more compliant, but I'm MUCH happier with the system in comfort mode than I was right after install. I still feel that the stiffness in Comfort mode is between stock Sport and Sport+ (closer to Sport), but the shocks are tackling the crappy Chicago roads very well. There are a couple of spots on a series of expansion joints where at the right speed it bounces a bit, but it's due to the extra stiffness rather than the boat rocking feeling that stock shocks give. I think that in a couple more hundred or thousand miles this kit will wear in nicely, and as long as no EDC issues come up again, so far I'd say I'm much happier with my purchase than I was when I first drove it home before the chassis malfunction came on.

Feel free to ask any questions now that the kit is working correctly again
Iím curious to hear your input after 1-2k miles.

Have you gotten an alignment yet or are you still waiting for the springs to settle?
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      08-17-2019, 08:50 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
Iím curious to hear your input after 1-2k miles.

Have you gotten an alignment yet or are you still waiting for the springs to settle?

Will update once I reach 1k on the kit. I got an alignment with install. I don't expect height to change.
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      09-07-2019, 11:18 PM   #32
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Hows it going with the B16's so far....
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      09-08-2019, 12:41 AM   #33
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Hows it going with the B16's so far....
If you have a specific question, I'd be happy to answer it. Otherwise my previous impressions stand. Happy to help.
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      09-08-2019, 03:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
If you have a specific question, I'd be happy to answer it. Otherwise my previous impressions stand. Happy to help.
Is the ride getting more comfortable as you are breaking it in? Is comfort still between sport and sport plus or has it gotten softer?
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      09-08-2019, 06:07 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty View Post
Is the ride getting more comfortable as you are breaking it in? Is comfort still between sport and sport plus or has it gotten softer?
At the moment I have ~500 miles on the suspension. I'd say comfort is still between stock sport and sport+ on non comp pack suspension. My wife sat in the back seat and definitely made plenty of comments of how stiff the ride is now compared to the lowering springs before.

I definitely wouldn't say it's a road trip car currently for people in the back seat. Front is stiff but not unbearably so. Im slowly racking up miles, will give an update after 2k miles if there are any changes worth mentioning.

Car is friggin planted though.
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      09-08-2019, 11:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntgarage44 View Post
At the moment I have ~500 miles on the suspension. I'd say comfort is still between stock sport and sport+ on non comp pack suspension. My wife sat in the back seat and definitely made plenty of comments of how stiff the ride is now compared to the lowering springs before.

I definitely wouldn't say it's a road trip car currently for people in the back seat. Front is stiff but not unbearably so. Im slowly racking up miles, will give an update after 2k miles if there are any changes worth mentioning.

Car is friggin planted though.
Damn that's unfortunate. I've always said that my M3 was the perfect road trip car (done a few with it already) because it keeps me engaged on long drives while my wife and kids are sound asleep. I don't want to ruin it by making it bobble head stiff...

I was ready to pull the trigger but not so much anymore...

Alan
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      09-09-2019, 07:12 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
Damn that's unfortunate. I've always said that my M3 was the perfect road trip car (done a few with it already) because it keeps me engaged on long drives while my wife and kids are sound asleep. I don't want to ruin it by making it bobble head stiff...

I was ready to pull the trigger but not so much anymore...

Alan

Yeah I get what you're saying. After driving it another ~30 miles or so yesterday, I can definitely confirm there is still a bit of that bobble head action going on. But instead of misleading potential purchasers, I'd rather give an unbiased opinion considering I ponied up the 3 grand + install on this kit. I basically went into this blind because there weren't that many reviews of the system on here, and what was posted on here wasn't as detailed as I would have liked to make a well informed decision.


I realize the Bilstein kit hasn't been on the street all that long compared to most of the other systems available for this car, but personally, I think the lack of reviews is telling considering this kit is more or less available if you really want it. When I bought mine, I think I found 3-4 reviews before it. Three of them all positive, and one more in line with my experience, which is what I'd call mixed. But sometimes, reviews are just as useful for informing purchasers not to buy as they are to convince them to buy a product. I have no connections or affiliations with any vendor or part supplier - just my own ~$3500 I put down to get these coil overs on my car.


In the end, I guess the take away is everything has a compromise somewhere, whether budget, feel, livability. This thread sort of has the tone of a negative review, but keep in mind my issues with the stock suspension have been addressed with these coil overs. They accomplished what I sought to fix. It did come with a non-negligible side effect, but for the purpose my car is used for as a non-daily driver, I can easily overlook this. At the same time, this may not work for everyone, and that's OK. What matters is if this review helps others decide if this system is right for them or not.

My last comment is, if I was to do it again, I would first have asked someone local to me who's on KW HAS or MP HAS for a 15 minute ride in their car first before making my decision to purchase. MP HAS in particular seems to have overwhelmingly positive reviews, so I think it would have been worth my time to at least feel those out before committing to full coil overs.

Long shpeal I know, but hope this helped.
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      09-09-2019, 09:23 AM   #38
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^^ Appreciate you taking time to inform everyone about your experiences with these coilovers.
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      09-09-2019, 09:32 AM   #39
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^^ Appreciate you taking time to inform everyone about your experiences with these coilovers.
Of course. Trying to contribute in a meaningful way when I can.

On the flip side, I just thought of something. As is, my car is sitting pretty low in the rear. Bilstein specs the rear drop as being 5-25mm lower than stock. My MS springs were a 17mm rear drop, and the shop which installed the B16 basically set up the rear at the same height or slightly lower. Personally, I prefer a higher rear ride height to begin with, so I'm going to try to go to up 10mm in the rear and report back with results. These are progressive rate springs, so I'm wondering if decompressing them a bit will sort out the rear a little better. It was my intention to go max height from the beginning anyways.

Hopefully I can get around to it this week/weekend and have some good news
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      09-09-2019, 09:46 AM   #40
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Any pics of your car with the B16's installed? I also have MS springs installed on the car and while the front drop is perfect the rear with these springs are a tad too low on the M3. with my kids/car seats installed i'm usually tucking alittle bit of the tire.
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      09-09-2019, 10:01 AM   #41
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Here's what I have off-hand.

Continental ECS 265/40/18 front 285/40/18 rear
Front: 513m wheel + 12mm spacer
Rear: 513m wheel +10mm spacer.

Personally, I like about 1 cm of empty space between top of tire and fender line, which is basically stock on M3. So will go to max height and report back with photos.
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      09-09-2019, 10:54 AM   #42
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Your ride height looks 100% perfect to me.
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      09-09-2019, 11:01 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Alan l. View Post
Your ride height looks 100% perfect to me.
Haha well, different strokes I guess. The front is a tad too low for the streets around me, but it rides well. I also don't love how the front arch is tiny up top and looks super wide on the sides - just needs more vertical space in my opinion.

The rear is deceiving from the photos because I went less aggressive offset from my TE37s - about 6mm inward. I would like it higher in order to load up the rear seats with passengers and stuff in the trunk without worrying about hitting the bump stops. I think max height in rear will give me what I'm looking for. Also, if it means the ride will be better, I'm going to keep it at that height. I'm hopeful
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      09-09-2019, 12:23 PM   #44
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Just wanted to chime in with my experience as I've been running the B16 Damptronics for about 2 weeks now on BBS FI-R 265-285/35/19 (~600 miles, switched from a very conservative Eibach V1 spring setup). I daily my car and my commute is mixed freeway/local LA traffic with some patches of pretty harsh roads. The ride is definitely more firm but I don't find the coilovers to be unbearable/uncomfortable -- but I do understand where OP is coming from as comfort is a highly subjective measure.

However, I feel that the benefits in stability far outweigh any negatives of the added firmness. I took the car out to the canyons yesterday and can confirm the car feels "planted" and a lot more stable. Steering feel has vastly improved. My overall confidence in the car has increased substantially. I do find it harder to discern the differences between comfort/sport/sport+ now, whereas before I could definitely feel the differences on the stock dampers. I was a bit weary to install after reading OP's review, but I couldn't be any more happy now that I did. Mind that I am not discrediting OP's experience, rather highlighting the subjective nature of coilover reviews. If you're considering this, your best bet is to try to find someone with B16's or PSS10's and go for a ride. For all that I know, you may disagree with me.

Overall, this is hands down the best modification I've done to my car.
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