[1 YR. Update] My Swift Spec-R Review - R&T.

[Never Convicted]

^^^^^

We are H&R Springs, and we approved this message.

[M3ryder55]

Originally Posted by 190hpkilla

I agree with you and another member above. The struts bottom out everywhere here in NY. My car is not drivable I already destroyed the right front strut.


The OEM struts are not designed for this lowered height. I love the way they feel but real world experience is horrible. The car feels like a slammed civic on stock struts.

Before people start getting mad.......I have a lowered z06 and I love harsh race suspension. I work for BMW and performed the installation myself.

But I don't like hitting bump stops every 3 minutes. I have to crawl anywhere I drive with SWIFT.

Maybe swift can chime in. But the stock struts have no travel to handle this height. Should of left the rear same heigh and bring the front down .75 but Swift went for the looks and not function.


-2016 m3

Shoulda got eibachs than or paid a couple grand for coils.

I need more wheel time for me to judge these properly but so far they are good.. but I feel bad for you guys that live over there.. I thought our roads were shit but I guess I'll be more appreciative

[EdR]

Swift going for looks??

Here's quoted comments from a Swift engineer from an earlier post:

Front rates increase over 50%
Rear rates increase of just over 25%

1. But they will be the spec R so the rates will be a good amount stiffer than what is currently on the car, however we will keep the vehicle as close to the stock feel as possible. We have our formula to retain compliance.

2. We will be making different springs for the M3 and the M4. The front drop should be about .8" and the rear should be about .5"

3. yes you are correct about lowering your vehicle and losing compression stroke in the shock. We have it calculated out so that although the vehicle will be lower because the rates are increased it will decrease the amount the wheels would travel in any given undulation on the road. We also dyno the bumpstops and make sure what the usable stroke of the bumpstops would be at engagements. We do the best we can so that you can maintain the same amount of forces to the wheels before you bottom out the shock. This is why we pride ourselves in the fact that we make sure we have usable stroke in your shocks.

4. We do change the weight balance of the vehicle, but this here I believe you might have your information mixed up. Our setup will not make the car understeer it will actually increase the oversteer. You have to understand that manufacturers will always set up a vehicle to understeer, for safety reasons. Our intention is to increase the performance of the vehicle, in other words we do bring the center of gravity lower up front than we do in the rear. This way you will get a little bit more aggressive turn in, and keep the rear end of your car under control on acceleration. Although we drop the front end lower than the rears on the M3 we also increased the front rates by a bigger percentage than in the rear. This would give you a stable car mid corner, and slightly more aggressive turn in, ultimately pulling out of corners quickers, decreasing your lap times at the track or autocross, and of course have a more fun on your daily driver.

5. Bottom line, the purpose of our springs is the increase performance, but we also pride ourselves in the compliance and streetability. All I can tell you is that the feedback we are getting from the prototype testers are claiming that they feel as comfortable as the stock ride, it isnt until they hit a big dip or they take a high speed corner where they really feel the increase in rate. Suspension tuning ends up being very subjective, so it would be hard for me to describe what you would/wouldn't like, at the same time everyone wants something different. We create springs based on what we feel the suspension should feel like. As for feedback the only thing I can do is relay was given to me so far by the testers.

[190hpkilla]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

Shoulda got eibachs than or paid a couple grand for coils.

I need more wheel time for me to judge these properly but so far they are good.. but I feel bad for you guys that live over there.. I thought our roads were shit but I guess I'll be more appreciative

Originally Posted by EdR

Swift going for looks??

Here's quoted comments from a Swift engineer from an earlier post:

Front rates increase over 50%
Rear rates increase of just over 25%

1. But they will be the spec R so the rates will be a good amount stiffer than what is currently on the car, however we will keep the vehicle as close to the stock feel as possible. We have our formula to retain compliance.

2. We will be making different springs for the M3 and the M4. The front drop should be about .8" and the rear should be about .5"

3. yes you are correct about lowering your vehicle and losing compression stroke in the shock. We have it calculated out so that although the vehicle will be lower because the rates are increased it will decrease the amount the wheels would travel in any given undulation on the road. We also dyno the bumpstops and make sure what the usable stroke of the bumpstops would be at engagements. We do the best we can so that you can maintain the same amount of forces to the wheels before you bottom out the shock. This is why we pride ourselves in the fact that we make sure we have usable stroke in your shocks.

4. We do change the weight balance of the vehicle, but this here I believe you might have your information mixed up. Our setup will not make the car understeer it will actually increase the oversteer. You have to understand that manufacturers will always set up a vehicle to understeer, for safety reasons. Our intention is to increase the performance of the vehicle, in other words we do bring the center of gravity lower up front than we do in the rear. This way you will get a little bit more aggressive turn in, and keep the rear end of your car under control on acceleration. Although we drop the front end lower than the rears on the M3 we also increased the front rates by a bigger percentage than in the rear. This would give you a stable car mid corner, and slightly more aggressive turn in, ultimately pulling out of corners quickers, decreasing your lap times at the track or autocross, and of course have a more fun on your daily driver.

5. Bottom line, the purpose of our springs is the increase performance, but we also pride ourselves in the compliance and streetability. All I can tell you is that the feedback we are getting from the prototype testers are claiming that they feel as comfortable as the stock ride, it isnt until they hit a big dip or they take a high speed corner where they really feel the increase in rate. Suspension tuning ends up being very subjective, so it would be hard for me to describe what you would/wouldn't like, at the same time everyone wants something different. We create springs based on what we feel the suspension should feel like. As for feedback the only thing I can do is relay was given to me so far by the testers.

Guys please don't get mad defending the product. This is not should of. Could of. Didn't buy something.

On my 2016 M3 and another member on this forum, the swift spec R spring are not functioning as advertised.

Maybe there is an issue with production and I want to get to the bottom of it.

On paper I should not have any issues but unfortunately the springs are not working.

Every mile Im hitting BUMP Stops. Have you even experienced that? To know how terrible the car feels?

[EdR]

Not mad at all. Just wanted to share some info that I thought would be helpful in understanding how they were designed etc.

I'm sorry you're having those problems. I have the springs along with GC camber plates, Fall Line control arms and a track alignment. I've not experienced what you have. Hope you can get the issue resolved.

[190hpkilla]

Originally Posted by EdR

Not mad at all. Just wanted to share some info that I thought would be helpful in understanding how they were designed etc.

I'm sorry you're having those problems. I have the springs along with GC camber plates, Fall Line control arms and a track alignment. I've not experienced what you have. Hope you can get the issue resolved.

That is the reason I went with spec R. I like how they work on my Evos. This is why I'm so disappointed.

Last year I came up to Cali from NY with Two Evos on Spec R. I don't even remember one pothole. Maybe your roads are too perfect. hehe

But seriously Im Not exagrating how bad my car feels.

[Mperial]

I can't quite understand why having defective springs is cause for some to defend a company and their product that has my money. We're not beta testers; like you, we're just consumers who want what was advertised.

I can state that Swift is now aware of a real problem that exists in F80 applications since the shop that subsequently uninstalled my springs contacted them about their faulty spring rates in the front. They're quite a bit softer than OEM. Swift is sending my shop new front springs and would like the defective springs returned to them for "further analysis."

As for the anecdotal comment about Eibachs, etc., I wouldn't have purchased the Swifts if it weren't for the positive feedback of forum members and the advertised performance by the brand. Thanks for the trenchant analysis, though.

As for the quoted section above from a Swift engineer:

That's pretty spot-on and accurate - that's why I bought springs. However, it's a generic description of how quality, properly-tuned springs ought to behave. My experience has been quite the opposite, unless driving on level roads. Hopefully, Swift can sort out this F80 conundrum.

[M3ryder55]

get a refund or ask for a new setup or have your installer check out the installation... I've hit the bump stops once going 90 on a mean dip on the freeway in 200 miles of driving the car. Nobody is defending our product, if you genuinely have a problem reach out and get help.

It doesn't help you cause with 5 posts on the forum, new member, w/ a screen name that says 190hpkilla.. Troll alert, or competitor vendor alert is the red flag you raise mister Corvette, EVO driver w/ swifts, NY to Cali guy. Sorry don't get butt hurt, just the taste you are leaving in my mouth seeing as though I literally private messaged 10 separate swift owners and now personally own them to vouch for them and here you come out of nowhere feeding some negativity with absolutely zero credibility here.

[S65V8]

hey all, for added context, I drive on dips, road imperfections all the time. It's certainly stiff and you have to respect it by driving more carefully, but I've never bottomed out - ever (no dash shuddering or a definitive slam/whack at top of the shock tower).

Now, I do agree this set-up seems stiffer than my E92 Swift set-up, but I think it's because the car itself is insanely stiff to begin with per data point listed in review.

My impression is that Swift's main goal with these springs was to actually provide true performance enhancement on smooth roads (pretty much what they say in a previous post above from a forum member), and did what they could on streetability, but one shouldn't expect them to be near stock softness and compliance.

The F80 issue is unfortunate, and hopefully it gets resolved soon. For those affected, please report back what was determined and how it was resolved.

[CanAutM3]

It is interesting we keep hearing that the Swift have a "linear" rate. I guess it depends what is defined as a "linear" rate. It is clear to me, that looking at pictures, the Swift do not have a constant rate due to the varying coil spacing.

[135-CS]

Originally Posted by 190hpkilla

Guys please don't get mad defending the product. This is not should of. Could of. Didn't buy something.

On my 2016 M3 and another member on this forum, the swift spec R spring are not functioning as advertised.

Maybe there is an issue with production and I want to get to the bottom of it.

On paper I should not have any issues but unfortunately the springs are not working.

Every mile Im hitting BUMP Stops. Have you even experienced that? To know how terrible the car feels?

Do you have Electronic Suspension? Is this issue occurring to M4 too? Any idea why you are experiencing this bad feeling on your suspension?

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It is interesting we keep hearing that the Swift have a "linear" rate. I guess it depends what is defined as a "linear" rate. It is clear to me, that looking at pictures, the Swift do not have a constant rate due to the varying coil spacing.

Great observation!

As you're probably aware, the amount of force they exert is based on physical dimensions like the wire diameter, outer diameter, free length, active coils (space in between active coils), and the material type used (noting Swifts proprietary material developed for their spring sets, different from the competitors). Some springs may be very similar in shape or size but the force they exert and their elasticity depends on the proportion of all of the dimensions that make up the linear spring. So it's stands to reason not all linear springs will look equally spaced between coils depending on how the manufacturer's formulates these variables. For example, while the coils may be closer together at the bottom vs. the top of the spring, the density of the material used (bottom vs. top) + the varying space of coils, could create an overall compressing motion that is "linear". Hence, what ultimately defines the spring's linear performance is how equal and consistent the compression and rebound is in motion.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SROC5

Great observation!

As you're probably aware, the amount of force they exert is based on physical dimensions like the wire diameter, outer diameter, free length, active coils (space in between active coils), and the material type used (noting Swifts proprietary material developed for their spring sets, different from the competitors). Some springs may be very similar in shape or size but the force they exert and their elasticity depends on the proportion of all of the dimensions that make up the linear spring. So it's stands to reason not all linear springs will look equally spaced between coils depending on how the manufacturer's formulates these variables. For example, while the coils may be closer together at the bottom vs. the top of the spring, the density of the material used (bottom vs. top) + the varying space of coils, could create an overall compressing motion that is "linear". Hence, what ultimately defines the spring's linear performance is how equal and consistent the compression and rebound is in motion.

While varying the density and/or metallurgical properties throughout the length of the coil is theoretically possible, I seriously doubt any manufacturer would go through the trouble of doing that. It is so much simpler to control the rate through coil spacing, diameter and shape.

And again, the "linear" term is very vague. What is linear relative to what?

IMHO, the Swift springs clearly don't have a constant rate across the entire compression and expansion range. I am not saying it is a bad thing, I am just stating a fact.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

While varying the density and/or metallurgical properties throughout the length of the coil is theoretically possible, I seriously doubt any manufacturer would go through the trouble of doing that. It is so much simpler to control the rate through coil spacing, diameter and shape.

And again, the "linear" term is very vague. What is linear relative to what?

IMHO, the Swift springs clearly don't have a constant rate across the entire compression and expansion range. I am not saying it is a bad thing, I am just stating a fact.

Agreed but the resulting force is linear, feels consistent during compression and rebound start to finish. I guess that's what they were trying to accomplish.

[190hpkilla]

This is 16 M3 without Edc.

The harshness doesn't bother me. Its the bump stop shock.

Looks like I'm not the only one with an issue. I emailed Swift. It's just unfortunate that some people will swear by a product no matter how the car drives. Call it brain washed.

I've been tuning cars for Around 13 years and it's not the first time 10 people will swear by a product and will never admit defective items do exist.

I'm not having a spring war here. I want to keep Swift. We are having a discussion on a forum which was created to consult and share experience. So please keep negative comments to yourself.

[190hpkilla]

Originally Posted by M3ryder55

get a refund or ask for a new setup or have your installer check out the installation... I've hit the bump stops once going 90 on a mean dip on the freeway in 200 miles of driving the car. Nobody is defending our product, if you genuinely have a problem reach out and get help.

It doesn't help you cause with 5 posts on the forum, new member, w/ a screen name that says 190hpkilla.. Troll alert, or competitor vendor alert is the red flag you raise mister Corvette, EVO driver w/ swifts, NY to Cali guy. Sorry don't get butt hurt, just the taste you are leaving in my mouth seeing as though I literally private messaged 10 separate swift owners and now personally own them to vouch for them and here you come out of nowhere feeding some negativity with absolutely zero credibility here.

Google my name. Yes the name does sound funny but I've had it for 13 years. I won't create a different screen name every time I buy a new car. Thanks for a friendly comment. NY to San Fran and back. 7000 mile round trip. Some people actually drive their cars.

Svt forum
Corvette forum
Nissan forum
EvolutionM

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It is interesting we keep hearing that the Swift have a "linear" rate. I guess it depends what is defined as a "linear" rate. It is clear to me, that looking at pictures, the Swift do not have a constant rate due to the varying coil spacing.

Supposedly, those are helper coils and the resulting rate is still linear. I'm not really sure how true that is, but I trust Swift. They have a grea rep in circles I'm involved with. I personally used their springs on the coil overs on my 620awhp Evo. They were very consistent and performed great.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

Supposedly, those are helper coils and the resulting rate is still linear. I'm not really sure how true that is, but I trust Swift. They have a grea rep in circles I'm involved with. I personally used their springs on the coil overs on my 620awhp Evo. They were very consistent and performed great.

As I posted previously, I am not saying that the Swift aren't good springs. I never tried them, so I am not in a position to judge them.

Just based on visual observation, the Swift spring would behave as two seperate springs acting in series. When all the coils are unwound, this would yield a linar rate following the equation 1/ktot= 1/k1 + 1/k2. However, some of the coils have very tight spacing between them, which leads me to believe that at some point during the compression they will bottom out on each other which makes that portion of the spring act like a stiff body and significantly increasing the total spring rate at that point.

[190hpkilla]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As I posted previously, I am not saying that the Swift aren't good springs. I never tried them, so I am not in a position to judge them.

Just based on visual observation, the Swift spring would behave as two seperate springs acting in series. When all the coils are unwound, this would yield a linar rate following the equation 1/ktot= 1/k1 + 1/k2. However, some of the coils have very tight spacing between them, which leads me to believe that at some point during the compression they will bottom out on each other which makes that portion of the spring act like a stiff body and significantly increasing the total spring rate at point.

Is it possible that it's what some of us are experiencing.. The spring coils crashing into each other?

[yellowssm]

Oh well I took the plunge and preordered a set. Hopefully i get these before I get my car so I can throw them on so I won't know how bad or good they are compared to stock lol

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As I posted previously, I am not saying that the Swift aren't good springs. I never tried them, so I am not in a position to judge them.

Just based on visual observation, the Swift spring would behave as two seperate springs acting in series. When all the coils are unwound, this would yield a linar rate following the equation 1/ktot= 1/k1 + 1/k2. However, some of the coils have very tight spacing between them, which leads me to believe that at some point during the compression they will bottom out on each other which makes that portion of the spring act like a stiff body and significantly increasing the total spring rate at point.

You do make a great point.

I really want to give these springs a shot. I am about to pre-order a set but I'm slightly worried from some of these reports and the point you just made.

[Blksnowflake]

Originally Posted by 190hpkilla

Is it possible that it's what some of us are experiencing.. The spring coils crashing into each other?

Interestingly that makes sense? I also would appreciate any input on this.
Torn between the Swift and Macht Schnell CS, but leaning towards the MS.

I have very little experience with springs but do not understand exactly why the Swift springs look like that and it seems obvious visually that they would compress into each other....but I'm no expert on how springs work, just going by observation and that every other spring doesn't look like that, or any I've ever seen.