Possible battery alternatives

[listed5]

I purchased a wrecked 2016 M3 with a dead battery. Hardware-wise, the only differences I see are the battery itself and the IBS location (li-ion has IBS integration). I'm curious if I could replace the Li-Ion with an AGM of similar stats, install the negative battery cable from an f30 (which includes IBS), and code the battery type change with NCS. I've seen the adjustable battery classification in my f30 (klasse_batterie), but haven't been able to scan anything in my M3 due to the absence of a power supply. The alternator in the M3 is rated at 210 amps, which is comparable to the f30's 215. II'm hoping the dme controls power supply to the battery and is adaptive to whatever value is inserted in "klasse_battery". Has anyone seen this classification in the module readout of their F8x?

Thanks,
Chris

[listed5]

To update this, I've purchased Carly BMW with battery registry add-on and the negative battery cable from a f30 (the Li-Ion battery has IBS integration; whereas, standard F models integrate the sensor into the negative battery cable. Once I receive these 2 items, I will attempt to install a 90ah AGM battery and code the charging system accordingly. I'll report back with my findings and hopefully not a burnt out CAS module! lol

[Jaymax85]

Why not just buy a new Li battery

[listed5]

Mainly price and battery availability. My test combo will be around $250 using an OTS battery, vs $1,300 and a 2-4 week ship time. The car I have has been wrecked and I'm not certain if it's worth repairing. I don't want to throw good money after bad in the event I end up just parting the car out or find there is an electrical fault that will cause the battery to explode.

Second reason: to see if it can be done! I can't find any others that have attempted this, someone has to be a pioneer

[aboulfad]

You want to be a pioneer, how about you equip yourself with some serious appropriate tools for F8x, learn some things and try ... Carly , NCS, come on ??? You can't use NCSExpert to code Fxx platforms. Do you actually know what you are coding, and if that coding works on a F8x platform?

The ISTA rep document for the lithium battery mentions an ABL "Register Battery Exchange", but in theory it is for a replacement of similar characteristics. You can try that and see what happens.

If it works, I bet you will have many DME and FEM faults, as the LifePO4 integrated electronics monitor the individual Life cells and reports it via the Linbus. Cell voltage between Life and its lead acid is very different, and some ECUs will complain... Nothing will fry but you will have faults. Also, it will be unknown wether the F8x charging system will work for the AGM batt.

I am willing to help if you want to put the time and learn some stuff! but dump carly and get some serious free BMW tools. Search ;-)

[listed5]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

You want to be a pioneer, how about you equip yourself with some serious appropriate tools for F8x, learn some things and try ... Carly , NCS, come on ??? You can't use NCSExpert to code Fxx platforms. Do you actually know what you are coding, and if that coding works on a F8x platform?

The ISTA rep document for the lithium battery mentions an ABL "Register Battery Exchange", but in theory it is for a replacement of similar characteristics. You can try that and see what happens.

If it works, I bet you will have many DME and FEM faults, as the LifePO4 integrated electronics monitor the individual Life cells and reports it via the Linbus. Cell voltage between Life and its lead acid is very different, and some ECUs will complain... Nothing will fry but you will have faults. Also, it will be unknown wether the F8x charging system will work for the AGM batt.

I am willing to help if you want to put the time and learn some stuff! but dump carly and get some serious free BMW tools. Search ;-)

I already have NCS, inpa, esys, etc. Carly is just so easy to use for battery registration and value changes. You raise a good point with regard to the dme/charging system looking for cell balance, I was under the impression that the battery did this internally. The connector from the car to the Li-Ions internal IBS looks like the same 2 wire plug that is used on the standard IBS found on the f30's negative battery cable. I can't imagine it's transferring too much information over just 2 wires, but what do I know?

[aboulfad]

You’d be surprised how much info can be sent over one twisted pair, Mbit/s of data can be transmitted over a twisted pair but not for this usage.

But I digress, for the LifePO4 batt, the LIN-bus (19.2Kbps), relays various health and diag data about the battery. Who knows what happens if that data isn’t read, it isn’t the amount of data, it is the various routines that are run when you start the car that will dictate wether the car will start or not. The F3x IBS may also use LIN-BUS OR BSD.

NCS, INPA,... is for older generation. Get ISTA, Esys, tool32. You are better of doing the battery reg in ISTA, at least you can diagnose whatever issues you may get. GL.

[listed5]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

You’d be surprised how much info can be sent over one twisted pair, Mbit/s of data can be transmitted over a twisted pair but not for this usage.

But I digress, for the LifePO4 batt, the LIN-bus (19.2Kbps), relays various health and diag data about the battery. Who knows what happens if that data isn’t read, it isn’t the amount of data, it is the various routines that are run when you start the car that will dictate wether the car will start or not. The F3x IBS may also use LIN-BUS OR BSD.

NCS, INPA,... is for older generation. Get ISTA, Esys, tool32. You’d better of doing the battery reg in ISTA, at least you can diagnose whatever issues you may get. GL.

Haha. correct! I am old though, been in the bmw game for about 15 years (coded a m5 cluster to my e39 540 in 2003). I appreciate the well wishes and will let you know what I find. I think I'm just going to use the lead acid unit in my f30 for the initial trial, it's rated 900cca.

[aboulfad]

Oh we are old by numbers, but young at heart Don’t trust Carly for batt reg before you check the ISTA ABL procedure, because I found only one tool32 S55 job related to batt reg, and the details are lacking... and I couldn’t find much by browsing quickly DME & FEM CAFD (coding files)

You can make it simple, and just like u said, connect the lead acid batt and see if at least something lights up! Of course keep handy a
Sorry couldn’t resist

[Brasko]

Looked into lightweight battery replacements for OEM several months back. Spoke to the Director of Motorsports & OEM at Braille Battery and he recommended their Carbon Intensity I48CX model. He stated it's commonly used in BMW, Porsche, and the C7 Corvettes to name a few. Not sure about OEM battery weight, but the Braille battery weighs 10lbs.

Here's a screenshot of the product.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Brasko

...He stated it's commonly used in BMW, Porsche, and the C7 Corvettes to name a few. Not sure about OEM battery weight, but the Braille battery weighs 10lbs.

That battery is rated at 25Ah while ours is 69Ah/30lbs (putting aside the differences in battery chemistries). It may be suited for racing setups than for a DD.

EDIT: Oh that is also a LifePO4 batt, $1733 USD ouch ...

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

That battery is rated at 25Ah while ours is 69Ah/30lbs (putting aside the differences in battery chemistries). It may be suited for racing setups than for a DD.

EDIT: Oh that is also a LifePO4 batt, $1733 USD ouch ...

Word. Thanks for that bit of knowledge. I've been curious to know how it compares.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Brasko

Word. Thanks for that bit of knowledge. I've been curious to know how it compares.

Here’s more info if you are curious!
OP, when are you connecting your F30 batt?

[Brasko]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Here’s more info if you are curious!
OP, when are you connecting your F30 batt?

Just downloaded it. Thanks for sharing!

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Brasko

Just downloaded it. Thanks for sharing!

Well how about dozens more ? Rheingold Useful docs

[listed5]

To follow up: I installed the 825cca battery from my 335 and the m3 started right up. It gave a voltage below threshold error on the dashboard, but I also haven't installed the negative battery cable, so the IBS was disconnected at that time. It was enough to power the car, so first question clearly has an answer. Whenever I get time to set up esys, etc., I'll try to change some parameters. Side note: the Li-Ion was significantly lighter than the lead-acid (as expected).

Thanks for everyone's responses!

[aboulfad]

So the car starts up, good! Do you plan on keeping the lead acid battery in there? Curious if the F8x charging system will behave with a lead acid battery which has different charging profile than LifePO4. If you find some batt coding parameters, please do post.

[listed5]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

So the car starts up, good! Do you plan on keeping the lead acid battery in there? Curious if the F8x charging system will behave with a lead acid battery which has different charging profile than LifePO4. If you find some batt coding parameters, please do post.

This specific battery was borrowed from my 335, so I needed to return it. I'd like to try; as the lead acid is $1100+ dollars cheaper and the alternator does have 220 amp capability. I have to tear the drivetrain and everything out to have the frame rails replaced, hopefully I will have sorted esys out by the end of reinstall and can check for coding parameters.

[Thewnoori]

I really need a battery for my 2015 bmw m4. Do you know anyone who is selling one by any chance ?! I’m going through a mid life crisis:/ or any alternative with the agm battery?

Originally Posted by listed5

I purchased a wrecked 2016 M3 with a dead battery. Hardware-wise, the only differences I see are the battery itself and the IBS location (li-ion has IBS integration). I'm curious if I could replace the Li-Ion with an AGM of similar stats, install the negative battery cable from an f30 (which includes IBS), and code the battery type change with NCS. I've seen the adjustable battery classification in my f30 (klasse_batterie), but haven't been able to scan anything in my M3 due to the absence of a power supply. The alternator in the M3 is rated at 210 amps, which is comparable to the f30's 215. II'm hoping the dme controls power supply to the battery and is adaptive to whatever value is inserted in "klasse_battery". Has anyone seen this classification in the module readout of their F8x?

Thanks,
Chris

[listed5]

Originally Posted by Thewnoori

I really need a battery for my 2015 bmw m4. Do you know anyone who is selling one by any chance ?! I’m going through a mid life crisis:/ or any alternative with the agm battery?

I don't, my car was so damaged, it wasn't worth repairing, so I just took the substantial loss and sold it without having ever tested this theory. I still have the f30 IBS though if you ever want to test this idea out. Good luck my friend!

[eddie1681]

Any Updates for the battery install? I am looking for a battery for my 2015 M4

Thanks

[chetrickerman]

I will be trying this with a IBS negative battery cable from a M2 and a 6 pound Braille Lithium battery.