18" Square Setup - Rotatable

[daveishi]

Originally Posted by EGbeater

I have a dream...

My dream is arriving Thursday- the 18x11 GT4 wheels. Let's hope they fit the GTS as a few have reported!

[markw10702]

Originally Posted by daveishi

My dream is arriving Thursday- the 18x11 GT4 wheels. Let's hope they fit the GTS as a few have reported!

Any updates / pictures?

[daveishi]

Originally Posted by markw10702

Any updates / pictures?

Fit no problem, just a 3mm spacer up front!

[ninekrpm]

finally have the setup squared away...had to wait quite a bit for the MSI GT4 length studs.

Setup: running 25mm front and 12mm rear spacers on 285/30/18 hoosiers, 5" front spring...

Also, must say...I am really loving these APEX wheels.
















Ready for Track next weekend...

[E92inSG]

Originally Posted by ninekrpm

finally have the setup squared away...had to wait quite a bit for the MSI GT4 length studs.

Setup: running 25mm front and 12mm rear spacers on 285/30/18 hoosiers, 5" front spring...

Also, must say...I am really loving these APEX wheels.


Ready for Track next weekend...

Your car is beautiful man! so much good info in this thread.

[ninekrpm]

If anyone is interested...have posted a set of my Apex wheels FS.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post28987181

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

In case it's relevant for anyone:

Tomorrow will be my forth track day with the square AR-1 set-up (295/30). Overall I am pleased. They are a bit faster than NT-01’s and only give up a little pace as the session drags on. The absence of tread blocks means there is good stability under heavy braking (no squirm). There is audible feedback at the limit which I find helpful. The CR-1, and other super 200TW tires, are definitely superior for a few hero laps but they quickly get sloppy with too much heat. These are a nice combo of pace vs. consistency. I managed to match a PR that I achieved on A052s but I think that was just stars aligning.

Wear: I will likely retire these after my 4th track day tomorrow. I rotated crosswise after each track day and adjusted camber between road and track settings. They wore evenly but I think they are almost toast. In this respect the NT01 is superior.

Next I will be experimenting with Toyo RR's. I should have them laced up for LRP 7/5 and WGI 7/11-7/12. They are suspiciously inexpensive. $1,150! Yes, for 4 tires.

[daveishi]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

In case it's relevant for anyone:

Tomorrow will be my forth track day with the square AR-1 set-up (295/30). Overall I am pleased. They are a bit faster than NT-01's and only give up a little pace as the session drags on. The absence of tread blocks means there is good stability under heavy braking (no squirm). There is audible feedback at the limit which I find helpful. The CR-1, and other super 200TW tires, are definitely superior for a few hero laps but they quickly get sloppy with too much heat. These are a nice combo of pace vs. consistency. I managed to match a PR that I achieved on A052s but I think that was just stars aligning.

Wear: I will likely retire these after my 4th track day tomorrow. I rotated crosswise after each track day and adjusted camber between road and track settings. They wore evenly but I think they are almost toast. In this respect the NT01 is superior.

Next I will be experimenting with Toyo RR's. I should have them laced up for LRP 7/5 and WGI 7/11-7/12. They are suspiciously inexpensive. $1,150! Yes, for 4 tires.

I agree with you on the AR1's, I went through quite a few sets of 275's on my e46m and loved them. The CR1's and other 200's were definitely faster, I've run them on the f82 and was happy but for the summer I actually swapped to RR's to see how they were as, like you, I was intrigued by the price.

After 3 days on them I have a strong feeling you will not be disappointed, especially for the price. I'm running 295's on 18x11 however I don't like the 30 profile and will be looking for another tire that offers 295/35 or just go to 305, undecided as of yet. Interested to hear your thoughts on the RR's

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by daveishi

I agree with you on the AR1's, I went through quite a few sets of 275's on my e46m and loved them. The CR1's and other 200's were definitely faster, I've run them on the f82 and was happy but for the summer I actually swapped to RR's to see how they were as, like you, I was intrigued by the price.

After 3 days on them I have a strong feeling you will not be disappointed, especially for the price. I'm running 295's on 18x11 however I don't like the 30 profile and will be looking for another tire that offers 295/35 or just go to 305, undecided as of yet. Interested to hear your thoughts on the RR's

I believe the lore has been that the RR is essentially a shaved NT01

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by daveishi

I agree with you on the AR1's, I went through quite a few sets of 275's on my e46m and loved them. The CR1's and other 200's were definitely faster, I've run them on the f82 and was happy but for the summer I actually swapped to RR's to see how they were as, like you, I was intrigued by the price.

After 3 days on them I have a strong feeling you will not be disappointed, especially for the price. I'm running 295's on 18x11 however I don't like the 30 profile and will be looking for another tire that offers 295/35 or just go to 305, undecided as of yet. Interested to hear your thoughts on the RR's

More sidewall would be great. Unfortunately, 295/35 options are limited...there appears to be Yoko A052 in that size but not much else that is track worthy.

What offset is your 18x11 wheel? Do you have that special BW kit to make it fit?

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Checkout how wide the RR is compared with the Nankang AR1. Both 295/30

[jfritz27]

Yeah, that AR-1 is a bit of a skinny minny....

Anyone try a 295 square RT660 setup? Their 295 is a 40 profile, which sounds kinda nice, but fitment a potential issue...

[daveishi]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

More sidewall would be great. Unfortunately, 295/35 options are limited...there appears to be Yoko A052 in that size but not much else that is track worthy.

What offset is your 18x11 wheel? Do you have that special BW kit to make it fit?

They are +33, the GT4 wheel. No BW kit but I have a GTS so I believe it's probably the GTS knuckles that allow them to fit.

[EGbeater]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yup. Strom made a billet E9X knuckle/kingpin and it's also really expensive

In any case, BimmerWorld has already launched their GTMore suspension that allows 11-305 comfortably on all four corners. Some say 11.5 fits square, we shall see

Originally Posted by EGbeater

Well sh*t, this is the first I've heard about this... I'm currently working on installing MCS 1WNRs to accommodate 19x11 305/30-19 and 18x11 315/30-18 square. I spent considerably less than $10.5k though (understood that starting price is for two-way dampers, not one-way; and the package includes a bunch of parts I didn't get):

BimmerWorld GTMore front tie rod ends (manufactured for us by SPL)
BimmerWorld GTMore front upper thrust arms (manufactured for us by SPL)
BimmerWorld GTMore front lower wishbones (manufactured for us by SPL)
BimmerWorld GTMore front sway bar links (manufactured for us by SPL)
BimmerWorld steering rack limiters

https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...F8X-M3-M4.html

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

11" front and rear sounds wonderful!

I've been slacking on reporting back that I have tested my new 315/30-18 on 18" x 11" square wheel/tire package, done one track day and an autox with them, and there are no unexpected issues. Other than, it's definitely harder to put down power at corner exit with the shorter 315/30 tires vs the 305/30-19s I was running previously. The turn-in with the meaty 315s and +12 offset up front is pretty dramatic... need to get used to the faster response for autocross.

I am running +44 offset 18x11s F&R, the rear obviously fits fine with no spacers; up front, I use 32mm of spacer to get to a effective +12 to adequately clear the damper body of my MCS 1WNR coilovers. The wheels are Apex (EC-7 and ARC-8); the tires are BFG Rival S 1.5 (yes, the RT660s is likely a slightly faster 200TW tire for track duty and autox, but I was unsure how extra cheaty-wide it would be versus the old-school Rival S).

The clearance is about 3/16" or 4.76mm, as measured by being able to stick a 3/16" thick piece of steel flat material between the wheel lip/tire shoulder and the MCS. I'm sure a +13 or +14 offset would be good too, but I wouldn't want to go much tighter than that.

Obviously for this fitment to work, you need a short front coilover spring to get the perch/jam nut above the shoulder of the tire. I run a super short 120mm-long (4.72") 60mm ID Eibach spring with no helper (just Swift torsion release "bearings", a stainless steel ring + a delrin slip ring). This is a shorter-than-absolutely-necessary spring length for 315/30-18s (tire height: 25.4") but it IS necessary for my other aggressive square tire/wheel fitment, which is 305/30-19s (tire height: 26.2") on 19" x 11" wheels square.

The Eibaach spring I used are PN 120-60-0140, which are rated for 14.28kg/mm or 800#/in. You need to run a pretty high spring rate with a short spring, or you run the risk of coil-binding under load (I installed custom-made bump stops to preclude getting into coil bind even if there was ever enough load to compress the damper assembly enough). My negative camber is currently set fairly high, 4.3 degrees, but you definitely don't need that much to get this 18" x 11" front fitment to work... what I can't tell you is the minimum negative camber required to have enough fender clearance under load. The answer will depend on your spring rate, ride height, and tire grip too anyway.

There will also be reshaping of the front fender liners (heat gun required) to gain additional clearance for the big tires when turning (they'll still rub if you try to turn the wheel more than about 2/3 of the way to max lock), and maybe some dremeling/shaving down of the connection point between the "point" of the metal front fender and the plastic bumper cover. I don't know if the shaving is actually necessary for the 315/30-18s on +12 because I'd already done it for the 305/30-19s with my OEM dampers (it would rub there even over pavement heaves driving straight, on the street, before I tested it on the track).

[Jeff80]

Thank you for all the above info!

jeff

[heyyouduh]

been going back and forth awhile now, currently running 18x10 et25 275/35 but finally bit the bullet and placed an order for 18x10.5 et37 after reading this and other threads re 10.5 squared. it will be awhile before they arrive, hope the front will fit with a 12-15mm spacer and MCS w/ 6" spring w/ helpers.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by D_SheerDrivingPleasure

Checkout how wide the RR is compared with the Nankang AR1. Both 295/30

Gang - I've done 3 track days in my new Toyo RR's and I have to say that I'm very pleased. It's surprising more people aren't using these, especially since a set costs about $1,100. Maybe it's because they aren't arrive and drive tires despite being DOT legal?

Two of my track days were 90 and sunny yet they maintained their pace during 30 minute sessions. Yes, the super 200TW tires are faster but you can't beat these for their sustained pace, wear characteristics and price. I'm still getting used the feel of not having any tread blocks. I find there is less communication in that sense although audible feedback is good at the limit.

If you try these tires make sure you follow the mounting instructions and only rotate Kris Kross (jump jump?).

[shaddy]

Originally Posted by heyyouduh

been going back and forth awhile now, currently running 18x10 et25 275/35 but finally bit the bullet and placed an order for 18x10.5 et37 after reading this and other threads re 10.5 squared. it will be awhile before they arrive, hope the front will fit with a 12-15mm spacer and MCS w/ 6" spring w/ helpers.

It'll fit! My 6" w/ helper setup fit with my 18x10.5 +24 square setup up front without a spacer. I run a 275/35 RS4. I did add a 12mm spacer for some better fitment and there's plenty of clearance inside and out. May try 285/35 or 295/30 next after these wear!

I originally almost went 285/35 but was worried about the taller tire and rubbing the fender liners. But all this talk of taller tires (295/35 and 295/40 ) makes me think the 285/35 would fit fine.

[Driver407]

Originally Posted by shaddy

It'll fit! My 6" w/ helper setup fit with my 18x10.5 +24 square setup up front without a spacer. I run a 275/35 RS4. I did add a 12mm spacer for some better fitment and there's plenty of clearance inside and out. May try 285/35 or 295/30 next after these wear!

I originally almost went 285/35 but was worried about the taller tire and rubbing the fender liners. But all this talk of taller tires (295/35 and 295/40 ) makes me think the 285/35 would fit fine.

How do you like the RS4 on F80 tracking? Work well near end of 20min~ sessions?

Ive mainly run 275/305 NT01 on my F80. Bought a E46 M3 a few months ago and got 18/275/25et squared set and have RS4's on them. With the idea of using the E46 setup as backup on the F80. Curious if the extra weight/power of F80 detracts much from performance.

Running Laguna in October and was debating trying the RS4 setup for that event. Really like them on my E46 so far.

[shaddy]

Originally Posted by irokdayellup

How do you like the RS4 on F80 tracking? Work well near end of 20min~ sessions?

Ive mainly run 275/305 NT01 on my F80. Bought a E46 M3 a few months ago and got 18/275/25et squared set and have RS4's on them. With the idea of using the E46 setup as backup on the F80. Curious if the extra weight/power of F80 detracts much from performance.

Running Laguna in October and was debating trying the RS4 setup for that event. Really like them on my E46 so far.

I really enjoy them as a seat time/HPDE tire! They're definitely not going to be as fast as a super 200TW like A052/CR-S/RT660, but they wear like iron and even on a heavy car like the F80 they're really consistent for a 20-30 minute session. I see a max spread of about 1.5 seconds in my data as the session gets longer given good traffic.

IMO RS4 gives me the consistency to practice something new turn by turn and see how it reflects in the data. Communicate really well also. I'm not at the point in my driving where I need the fastest tire and RS4 lets me balance fun and seat time/$

Also this review from Grassroots Motorsports shows lap time compared to RT660, not too far off and lasts longer:


That all said I may look to something faster for next season to start doing time attack!

[Driver407]

Originally Posted by shaddy

I really enjoy them as a seat time/HPDE tire! They're definitely not going to be as fast as a super 200TW like A052/CR-S/RT660, but they wear like iron and even on a heavy car like the F80 they're really consistent for a 20-30 minute session. I see a max spread of about 1.5 seconds in my data as the session gets longer given good traffic.

IMO RS4 gives me the consistency to practice something new turn by turn and see how it reflects in the data. Communicate really well also. I'm not at the point in my driving where I need the fastest tire and RS4 lets me balance fun and seat time/$

Also this review from Grassroots Motorsports shows lap time compared to RT660, not too far off and lasts longer:


That all said I may look to something faster for next season to start doing time attack!

Yeah, that is the same reason I got the RS4. Most seat time to rubber ratio I can find. With decent lap times thrown in.

RS4 also work great for daily tires. Is nice to just get in the car and go. No tire and brake swapping. Only other tire I was considering was that new continental extremecontact force but that is 500$ pricier. Thanks for the info.

[melanthius]

I'm about to pull the trigger on some kind of 18x11" setup and thinking I'd like to run Toyo RR's in 315/30/18.

I have the MCS 2WR and currently 6" spring + helper. My understanding is basically this should fit if I go to a 5" spring and maybe need a small spacer. I also have GC camber plates and currently running around -3.5 camber in the front.

Thoughts? Concerns? Considerations?


Looking at either VS-5RS because they are just... beautiful. And light. 18x11 +25 and 18x11 +44 rear

Or Bimmerworld TE:AL TA16 18x11 +36 all around.

It's hard to beat rotatable setup, but... Apex are just way better looking... and just a bit lighter. I'm being silly aren't I?