Dinan DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner Stage 1 for BMW F80, F82, F83 M3/M4

[Roadkiller]

No doubt warranty is a big player here. Got my dinan stage 2 installed by BMW dealer so any way you look at it, I'm dropping the car off there for issues. They can fight over cost to repair. Having said that, I've had it for 2.5 yrs and never had any problems at all...and I beat the crap out this car (knocking on wood at the moment). Yep, I drive it like it's the ultimate driving machine

[M4TW]

Can you please expand on the effect your tune might have on the longevity of the engine/turbos, i.e., beyond the warranty period? What have you done to minimize potential harm? How strong are the stock components to be able to withstand the extra demands? I completely agree that it's not just about raw power gains as may seem to be the case for the YOLO crowd.

[gmd2003]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Sorry for the delayed response. Been a hectic day with this release. So many questions and I will do my best to answer what I can...

1.) We use a Dynapack chassis dyno and a DTS engine dyno for all of our testing. Like most OE's, we publish our crank numbers, not wheel horsepower numbers, simply to keep things as accurate as possible. Dinan test multiple cars with multiple runs and averages them so no one chassis dyno test would be representative. When we compare our engine Dyno Data to our chassis dyno data we find that most if not all chassis dyno including ours overstates the lower RPM torque values. Our chassis dyno does not do a coast down for inertia and friction corrections. If we are using the chassis dyno once we have performed multiple Chassis dyno runs and averaged them we apply different correction factors to each RPM to correct for these inflated Torque numbers. All this is done to ensure the most accurate reporting to our customers. We list both Stock and Dinan numbers using the same corrections to ensure the comparison is fair. If we are using the Engine Dyno the data is just averaged over multiple runs to get a fair average performance. With both the engine dyno and chassis dyno we ensure the room is as close to standard weather conditions as possible and all dyno runs are performed in the same weather window to ensure comparisons are fair. In most cases Dinan Dyno numbers will be lower than those you will get at low RPM because of the inaccuracy at low RPM previously mentioned. Also in most cases Dinan's numbers will be higher at hi RPM because of the work we do to ensure proper heat exchanging that we find almost no one does. A few years ago, we put together a really in-depth article on our dyno process and how even slight variables can affect the outcome of any test.

http://dinancars.com/dinan-university/ - (Dynamometer Testing and The Modern BMW Engine)

It's a long article, but it gives you a really detailed looks at the process with a conclusion that has a good breakdown of what we covered. The most accurate thing we can say is that we've observed over 36 years of tuning, with most models we've tested, that the drivetrain loss is between 6.5 and about 12 percent. Its not as simple as a percentage, as it varies on car, transmission, RPM, vehicle speed and a myriad of other variables.

3.) After 6500 RPM there is a slight tapering until redline just like you would see on any dynojet or other dyno. It just was not illustrated so that the bulk of the curve and the peak numbers / gains were clearly defined on the chart. There is nothing hidden to redline as some may seem to think.

4.) BMW's as of recent are definitely under rated. There is no denying this and there is nothing to be gained from reporting a false gain and inflating numbers. It would ultimately come back and lead to problems including a tarnished reputation. This is why we list the factory rating as well as supply a graph with what we actually measured at stock compared to the tune. In the past such a distinction was not needed with naturally aspirated engines as these numbers for the most part were in line with the factory ratings. It should be noted however that the M3/M4 is by far the most underrated BMW we have come across. The M cars in general seem to be drastically underrated where the non-M cars are much closer in line to what they are factory rated (still underrated, but typically by a trivial amount in comparison).

5.) For the question on different maps and what not. We are in development on a iapp/android that will enable the end user to control different maps via bluetooth. Outside of the normal stages of tune we are also planning on offering multiple other pre-programmed maps including something akin to a race gas map which would be optimized for 100 octane fuel. For example here is a comparison on the M235i and various stages that we put out a couple weeks ago for rough comparison's sake. Please note all emissions standards are maintained for all stages.

Attachment 1091945
Attachment 1091946
Attachment 1091947

6.) Bottom line with Dinan is we offer a factory matching warranty which no other North American tuner does. We stand behind our product and back it by giving said warranty. We feel we also give the most polished product out there that maintains the drivability you expect from Bavaria's finest. To safely deliver smooth usable power across the power band so you can enjoy this additional 'oomph' throughout the life of the vehicle (whether you are daily driving or tracking the car) is our number one goal. We pride ourselves on drivability. Unfortunately this is not quantifiable by a number like horsepower or torque. The only way to accurately gauge this variable is by the butt dyno and the smile that comes across your face when driving. The beauty of Dinan is that we have dealers across the country and a fair amount of them have demo cars so that you can feel the Dinan difference first hand. For those that are interested in this tune or for those that are skeptical on Dinan in general I would encourage you to go to an authorized dealer and have a test drive (chances are it won't be an M3/M4, sorry) just so you can experience for yourself this difference.

And no, you won't scare us away with questions / comments. We are here to stay. The whole point of the forums for us is to deliver news and answer questions the best we can. Hopefully, along the way, educate a few people. But, that said, everyone has their opinion and is entitled to it. Hopefully it is delivered in a tasteful form, but that may be wishful thinking. =)

So is this graph from the engine dyno ?

[M4LAKA]

Originally Posted by MKE_M3

Definitely a stupid question.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=14

Oops and thank you!

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by Roadkiller

No doubt warranty is a big player here. Got my dinan stage 2 installed by BMW dealer so any way you look at it, I'm dropping the car off there for issues. They can fight over cost to repair. Having said that, I've had it for 2.5 yrs and never had any problems at all...and I beat the crap out this car (knocking on wood at the moment). Yep, I drive it like it's the ultimate driving machine

Same here... but a stage 3. Pretty sure I'm in first thing next year after the snow melts and a possible taking advantage of an online Dinan sale if one is to be had. Please guys!

[Money2536]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

Please let us know what you think. In the end, user reviews are what are important. We are sure you will be pleased with what our tuning solution offers.

Will do. I'm excited to test it out!

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by M4TW

Can you please expand on the effect your tune might have on the longevity of the engine/turbos, i.e., beyond the warranty period? What have you done to minimize potential harm? How strong are the stock components to be able to withstand the extra demands? I completely agree that it's not just about raw power gains as may seem to be the case for the YOLO crowd.

It was mentioned some time ago in an article from Bimmer Mag (specifically on the S55), that BMW had specified/engineered the internals with in mind that customers would be adding power and modifying the motors (they follow the forums). I'll try to find the article. The over built internals, nor the M5 based transmission are a factor. Once you go beyond the boost threshold, does the fueling and stock turbos begin to become the limitations.

Crack the DME, change the fuel system, swap the turbos and then we'll discover the motor torrance.

[BQTuning]

Dinan is playing a nasty game of number manipulation knowing damn well the factory claim 425 hp is actually the rough estimate of 425 whp making the M3/M4 drastically under rated, there are plenty of dynos done on this car available online. There is a 15%-20% drivetrain loss of power before the wheels. So the estimated REAL stock HP power to the crank is roughly 500 HP. So looking at Dinan MAX HP numbers only gives you about roughly 20 HP in gains and Im being generous here, not being technical with the numbers.

If you pay $2500 for 20 hp in gains you need your head examined.

HP is not WHP, please dont get confused by Dinan's numbers. HP is crank power, not the power to the wheels

[MasterC17]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Dinan is playing a nasty game of number manipulation knowing damn well the factory claim 425 hp is actually the rough estimate of 425 whp making the M3/M4 drastically under rated, there are plenty of dynos done on this car available online. There is a 15%-20% drivetrain loss of power before the wheels. So the estimated REAL stock HP power to the crank is roughly 500 HP. So looking at Dinan MAX HP numbers only gives you about roughly 20 HP in gains and Im being generous here, not being technical with the numbers.

If you pay $2500 for 20 hp in gains you need your head examined.

100% agreed!

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Dinan is playing a nasty game of number manipulation knowing damn well the factory claim 425 hp is actually the rough estimate of 425 whp making the M3/M4 drastically under rated, there are plenty of dynos done on this car available online. There is a 15%-20% drivetrain loss of power before the wheels. So the estimated REAL stock HP power to the crank is roughly 500 HP. So looking at Dinan MAX HP numbers only gives you about roughly 20 HP in gains and Im being generous here, not being technical with the numbers.

If you pay $2500 for 20 hp in gains you need your head examined.

HP is not WHP, please dont get confused by Dinan's numbers. HP is crank power, not the power to the wheels

Uhm.. they show exactly what the car dyno stock in the graph? Its 484 Flywheel. The 425 Flywheel on the post clearly says 'factory rating'. Then they show exactly what it put down stock in the graph with a header of 'stock'.

[ASAP]

Dinan showed 484 hp crank, I don't think that you can get more honest than that when showing gains.

[m3less]

Dinan already stated that bmw underrated the S55 engine.. I don't feel Dinan is playing games.. Their OP was clear and concise stating the ENGINE HP as opposed to WHP. They then clarified (in updated post) that they measured the performance of the S55 using both engine and chassis dyno... I don't feel tricked or confused about what Dinan has stated.

[Black Gold]

All that ^^^^^^^

I don't think this is a compelling product, but I definitely think dinan has been very honest

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Uhm.. they show exactly what the car dyno stock in the graph? Its 484 Flywheel. The 425 Flywheel on the post clearly says 'factory rating'. Then they show exactly what it put down stock in the graph with a header of 'stock'.

Originally Posted by ASAP

Dinan showed 484 hp crank, I don't think that you can get more honest than that when showing gains.

I am going by dyno consensus. What Dinan shows is considered LOW rated numbers vs the dyno consensus on this car.

If you guys are that ambitious to believe Dinan as the supreme source and authority without even cross referencing their claims then go right ahead and dish out those dollars.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by AutoPG

Ordered today. I'll report with my butt dyno.

Please do and I hope Im proven wrong......

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

I am going by dyno consensus. What Dinan shows is considered LOW rated numbers vs the dyno consensus on this car.

How are these numbers LOW vs. what has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum?

[solstice]

Consensus on crank hp?
Where have you been reading?

500 hp is not even within the wide range of opinions...
484 hp is not below what most people believed until Dinan provided engine dyno data, if that's what this is.

[RingMeister01]

Good Gawd my head

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

I am going by dyno consensus. What Dinan shows is considered LOW rated numbers vs the dyno consensus on this car.

Which fantasy dyno consensus is this?

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by gmcconn535

How are these numbers LOW vs. what has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum?

They are low compared to the dyno numbers I have seen accross the RPM band. You just cant go by peak HP power at 6000 RPMs and run off with it.

If that power was present in mid range much earlier then that would have been impressive.

Originally Posted by solstice

Consensus on crank hp?
Where have you been reading?

500 hp is not even within the wide range of opinions...
484 hp is not below what most people believed until Dinan provided engine dyno data.

Interesting, I did qoute the math involved to get an estimated rough HP didnt I ? Whats so hard in "comprehending" the factors ? So where is Dinan's WHP data ? Oh we dont need it cause we can calculate the factors to figure out the WHP ? .....the irony......


The only thing to do is just wait and see what the end users results......

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Interesting, I did qoute the math involved to get an estimated rough HP didnt I ? Whats so hard in "comprehending" the factors ? So where is Dinan's WHP data ? Oh we dont need it cause we can calculate the factors to figure out the WHP ? .....the irony......

Well, the only math you showed is how to do multiplication.

Where are your dyno graphs and calculations to show how you came to your drivetrain loss figures?

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Which fantasy dyno consensus is this?

Google is your best friend ? Do you know how to get a consensus ? People dont have to know each other to get a consensus.

Consensus, example: the new M3/M4 is underated. Did you need Dinan to confirm this ?