Carbon Ceramic Brakes - Leaning to yes, your opinion?

[captainaudio]

Does anyone have any test results that show the difference in stopping distance between carbon ceramic and steel brakes? Without those numbers everything posted here is just speculation and opinion.

I am not talking about track use as there is no denying that carbon brakes are more fade resistant when hot.

I am never going to drive my car on the road to the point where the brakes start to fade so my question is are the CCB brakes better in a panic stop or are the tires and anti-lock system the limiting factor?

I originally was going to go for the CCBs but changed my mind after a test drive (I did not like the way they felt when cold) and discussions with a few friends who are professional racers.

It's too late to turn back now and I am not unhappy with the steel brakes but I am curious about whether I made the right decision.

[Tempe Mendoan]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Does anyone have any test results that show the difference in stopping distance between carbon ceramic and steel brakes? Without those numbers everything posted here is just speculation and opinion.

I am not talking about track use as there is no denying that carbon brakes are more fade resistant when hot.

I am never going to drive my car on the road to the point where the brakes start to fade so my question is are the CCB brakes better in a panic stop or are the tires and anti-lock system the limiting factor?

I originally was going to go for the CCBs but changed my mind after a test drive (I did not like the way they felt when cold) and discussions with a few friends who are professional racers.

It's too late to turn back now and I am not unhappy with the steel brakes but I am curious about whether I made the right decision.

in that case, you've made a right decision.

[MWcoupe]

I will not get another performance car without CCB period. I love mine!

[JTmarlin]

Thanks for all the replies, quite passionate bunch here. Money unfortunately always has a way of causing an argument, what one person views as a good deal, another views as a waste of money. It makes the world go round, and in the end it is all relative. My condo HOA is ridic, but i get the pleasure out of it on a daily basis, does this make it a waste of $? No....so again, i appreciate the input and need to really drive the car with CCB before making a decision, BUT the below post has me very concerned. The car will NEVER see the track, and only canyon driving on the weekends, etc. I am more concerned with the appearance of the car, and do not by any means want to have an issue with the 19" wheels getting damaged. Can anyone shed light on this issue, i suppose i need to research/search this topic more?

Originally Posted by j997tt

A lot is passion on both sides about MCCB on this board. I listened, drove cars with both types of systems and bought MCCB. I had PCCB on a Porsche some years ago and it was a good experience. Not much track time though. I like my MCCB a lot. Easy to modulate, powerful when you get heat into them. Like the small weight savings. Like the absence of dust!

What I don't like is the stone damage on the fronts - stones getting caught in between the caliper and wheel barrel. It is well documented here. I have some damage on both my front wheels and it does not look like BMW is interested in dealing with it. I don't want bigger rims so I am stuck with this. If you have MCCB and 19 OE wheels chances are you will experience wheel damage at some point. That's the only downside that I can see aside from the price of entry.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by MWcoupe

I will not get another performance car without CCB period. I love mine!

I'd still like to see some stopping distance specs.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by 2strokeMe

If I had known that I'd have ordered them. The non CBBs are dog shit as soon as you wick it up.

I agree. The brake dust on my M5 is unrelenting. $8k is pretty steep though.

[Neil McRae]

yes get them they look awesome!

[FTS]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I'd still like to see some stopping distance specs.

As you have stated, on the street there is little difference if any, you can find some info on braking distances here under brake section.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by FTS

As you have stated, on the street there is little difference if any, you can find some info on braking distances here under brake section.

Thanks,

I feel that I made the right decision and that CCBs would offer no particular benefit to me given my use of the car.

[CanAutM3]

My take on this:

Comparing stock for stock, cold braking distances are likely very similar between CCB and the base irons as they both are tire limited. CCB will likely offer better resistance to fade and offer a slightly improved pedal feel when warmed up (at least based on my test drive with a CCB car). Another advantage of the CCB is the ability to go directly from street to track without needing to swap the pads.

Street use will likely never be able to exploit any braking superiority the CCB may have to offer. However, the same can be said for the M3/4 as a whole. It is simply not possible (within a sane margin) to legally fully exploit the performance envelop offered by the F8X on the street. Yet many people do shed the money to get an M3/4 for street only use. To some, it is just re-assuring to know that the performance is there; others just want to have the very best there is; to others it is just worth it for the prestige/looks and for some it is for the convenience on occasional track days. Nothing wrong with any of the above. Your money, you do what you want. Heck, I spent $2000 just for the looks of the LED headlights.

For moderate to heavy track use, cost becomes a more important factor to consider. So far, there aren't many track junkies that opted for the CCB except for FTS (it will be interesting to find out how his brakes hold up in the long run), so there isn't much track data available out there for the MCCB. I really wanted the CCB, but the available feedback from other makes did tend to indicate that it would be cost prohibitive for my budget to opt for CCB at the rate at which I track my cars (16~20 days per season). Further, the CCBs are quite more fragile than the irons, so there is more risk of damaging them when swapping wheels in the less than ideal environment of a track paddock. Another point to consider is that CCB force you to run 19" track tires, which are more expensive than 18"s. And finally, the stock irons with good track pads have proven to be plenty sufficient for my track use. They offer plenty of stopping power and I never suffered any fade even when using R-compound tires. For the cost, I am willing to live with swapping pads and/or squeaky brakes one the street .

In conclusion, there is no right or wrong answer. If you fancy them and can afford them, get them .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I'd still like to see some stopping distance specs.

I haven't seen an actual comparison of the ///M CCB, but below is an interesting C&D article that compares the PCCB with the base irons.

www.caranddriver.com/features/the-power-to-stop

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I haven't seen an actual comparison of the ///M CCB, but below is an interesting C&D article that compares the PCCB with the base irons.

www.caranddriver.com/features/the-power-to-stop

Interesting conclusion:

The conclusion: PCCB buyers enjoy a 37-pound weight savings but not necessarily more robust brakes.

But if brake fade is a consideration there is no denying the CCBs superior fade resistance.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by JTmarlin

The car will NEVER see the track, and only canyon driving on the weekends, etc. I am more concerned with the appearance of the car

In that case, it is like shopping for $$$ wheels and body kit. If you think it looks Boss then you should go for it

[FTS]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I haven't seen an actual comparison of the ///M CCB, but below is an interesting C&D article that compares the PCCB with the base irons.

www.caranddriver.com/features/the-power-to-stop

This is certainly valid test for Porsche brakes, but please keep in mind that the Porsche iron and CCB setups both use 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers with nearly the same pad surface areas (for that test, which was based on V2 PCCBs if I remember right). Subsequent Porsche 911 GT vehicles, except GTS, all used the same size calipers and rotor sizes until 991 GT3RS, which now have 10 mm diameter difference. This is not the case between ///M iron vs CCB setup obviously, so that test's results are misleading.

Until someone does a similar comparo for ////M brakes, we won't know and we have to collect our own data, until then buy it if you can Just for the calipers IMHO.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

But if brake fade is a consideration there is no denying the CCBs superior fade resistance.

According to the C&D test results, the PCCB don't seem to offer any advantage in fade (see chart below from the C&D article). But as FTS pointed out, that is not a comparison of the F8X two brake systems, so no final conclusion can be drawn just yet.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FTS

This is certainly valid test for Porsche brakes, but please keep in mind that the Porsche iron and CCB setups both use 6-piston front and 4-piston rear calipers with nearly the same pad surface areas (for that test, which was based on V2 PCCBs if I remember right). Subsequent Porsche 911 GT vehicles, except GTS, all used the same size calipers and rotor sizes until 991 GT3RS, which now have 10 mm diameter difference. This is not the case between ///M iron vs CCB setup obviously, so that test's results are misleading.

Until someone does a similar comparo for ////M brakes, we won't know and we have to collect our own data, until then buy it if you can Just for the calipers IMHO.

If the iron setup with good track pads is able to consistently perform without fade at the track and given that both systems are limited by the tires, I just don't see how the CCB can outperform the iron with track pads .

However, stock for stock, I agree, the CCB is the superior system.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

In that case, it is like shopping for $$$ wheels and body kit. If you think it looks Boss then you should go for it

^ This

[j997tt]

There are several threads on this forum outling the wheel damage issue. Search and you will find them. Good luck with your decision.

Originally Posted by JTmarlin

Thanks for all the replies, quite passionate bunch here. Money unfortunately always has a way of causing an argument, what one person views as a good deal, another views as a waste of money. It makes the world go round, and in the end it is all relative. My condo HOA is ridic, but i get the pleasure out of it on a daily basis, does this make it a waste of $? No....so again, i appreciate the input and need to really drive the car with CCB before making a decision, BUT the below post has me very concerned. The car will NEVER see the track, and only canyon driving on the weekends, etc. I am more concerned with the appearance of the car, and do not by any means want to have an issue with the 19" wheels getting damaged. Can anyone shed light on this issue, i suppose i need to research/search this topic more?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

^ This

Btw. I think you missed the memo. As per Amazing this data and stuff is not relevant. You don't have the ccb and are therefore a "h8t3r" looking for an excuse to bash those who are cooler/baller/lovin life with the ccb

[04RC51]

I love how so many people with no intention of buying CCBs, no experience in a car with them and nothing other than "I've heard" comments spend so much time in a thread about CCBs? If I don't like the color of an individual paint that someone paid $5000 for, I wouldn't spend countless posts in a thread about it? This place gets all kinds of weirdos I guess.

[FTS]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

If the iron setup with good track pads is able to consistently perform without fade at the track and given that both systems are limited by the tires, I just don't see how the CCB can outperform the iron with track pads .

However, stock for stock, I agree, the CCB is the superior system.

I have not argued one is better than the other from the rotors perspective, I only mentioned that the C&D test is misleading as they cannot be compared to the ///M setup differences. Btw, I don't think the tires are the the limiting factor; yes some tires will give more performance as you very well know, but I haven't seen any data that the F8x braking performance is limited by the tires. If so, at what point tires out perform the brake system, which tires, etc.? Or to put it in another way: at what level the kinetic energy to heat conversion becomes insufficient for stock and CC brakes? I don't have absolute data to be able to argue.

I am not going to get involved into this discussion about which is better, you have already eloquently put it in your response, I stated my opinion, and that's it; as long as some component performs to owner's satisfaction, all are valid choices

[MatthewDavid]

I debated the CCBs A LOT, but took the "risk" and got them. I have been very happy thus far.

Yeah, they squeak and groan sometimes. There are two things that fix this for me: 1) some high speed stops in a row (kind of like a mini re-bedding) and 2) a light pressure wash when I clean the car, which I do once a week with distilled water.

I have not been bothered by the squeak or even the groan. I did expect occasional comments from people about the squeak, but so far only compliments... a lot of them. The feedback at the peddle is always great and the stopping power has yet to let me down.

Every time I look at my car they're the first things I see.

The only thing I regret about the CCBs is having to read through all this silly debate and conjecture in countless threads to get to the end so I can finally leave a comment as one of the few with actual personal experience.

EDIT: Drove in very heavy rain this morning. Brakes gave zero fucks.