Seat Harness?

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by adc

Or wait for Scroth belts for the F8x cars. I'm not holding my breath as the F8x market is probably minuscule,

That would be super helpful, yea.

it is too bad we can't get just hit up an OEM motorsports catalog for bolt in half cage, fixed back seats, compatible HANS and 6pt harness

[larryn]

Originally Posted by te37

You know if someone made plastic inserts for the belts that go in the seat after you cut the slots this is a great idea!

There are options like that, but I'm not sure what it would do the the structural rigidity of the headrest. If there's a metal frame under the leather, I think it might be okay.

There are options, like these:




Really, just google "Seat Harness Passthrough" or "Seat Harness Inserts".

I've looked into this, but I would have a pro do it for me ONLY after determining that I'm not cutting through structural or electrical components, by taking the leather cover off and seeing what's underneath.

[te37]

Originally Posted by larryn

There are options like that, but I'm not sure what it would do the the structural rigidity of the headrest. If there's a metal frame under the leather, I think it might be okay.

There are options, like these:




Really, just google "Seat Harness Passthrough" or "Seat Harness Inserts".

I've looked into this, but I would have a pro do it for me ONLY after determining that I'm not cutting through structural or electrical components, by taking the leather cover off and seeing what's underneath.

Need to get a wrecked car and cut the seat open. Obviously if its just leather your cutting through it would be okay. They did it for a stunt car so I would assume that it would have to be safe. I would think they wouldn't cut through metal just to get a belt through there.

[adc]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

That would be super helpful, yea.

it is too bad we can't get just hit up an OEM motorsports catalog for bolt in half cage, fixed back seats, compatible HANS and 6pt harness

Don't see why BMW couldn't make a removable harness bar. Mounting brackets could stay integrated into the pillars, and the bar could be bolted in when you go to the track.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by te37

Need to get a wrecked car and cut the seat open. Obviously if its just leather your cutting through it would be okay. They did it for a stunt car so I would assume that it would have to be safe. I would think they wouldn't cut through metal just to get a belt through there.

Looking at this, I'm not sure how they routed those belts... However, the top "hoop" looks like it leaves room for a passthrough on the seat "wings" or between the hoop's upright, which is where I assume they routed the belts in that picture.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by adc

Yes.

For the E90 I had bought the Mini R56 quick fit harness, because I tired of waiting for Scroth of ever releasing an E90-specific version.

This is to 2x confirm - I just installed the MINI R56 harness, and it fits perfectly. Wish I had heard of this earlier this year!

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Seems like there is a big submarining risk with that setup, since the shoulder harnesses could easily slide off the seatback.

I would draw the opposite conclusion - should the shoulder belts come off for any reason, your upper body would be free to move (similar to 3-point setup), and make submarining prospect even that much less likely.

Schroth claims their ASM is effective at preventing submarining in case of a crash (see video earlier in the thread).
Through 15+ years of using Schroth ASM 4-point belts, I never had to find out. But I obviously both believe them, as well find that the upside of proper attachment to the seat of greater value vs. the fear of rolling and submarining.

To each his own.

Originally Posted by nicknaz

for what it is worth, the link i posted had instructions and diagrams from Takata about installing their 4 and 6 pt harnesses and the very first diagram shows your shoulder harness strap setup with a red x. My interpetation of that was they dont think its a good idea.

I like to understand the reasoning, not just blindly follow instructions.
Here is Takata argument against installing shoulder belts w/out head-rest pass-through: "The seatbelts will not function properly in these types of seats as shoulder belts will tend to slip off the shoulders."
http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/06/...xpert-answers/

I fully share the above concern, as does HMS (Schroth re-seller). So much so that they don't advertise of recommend the R56 kit for F80 cars:
www.hmsmotorsport.com

However, if adc says they fit well and don't slip off the shoulders.
I believe him.

I just installed my set, and under tension (fully tightened), the possibility of these belts sliding off the shoulders is virtually non-existent.

I would still prefer to pass them through the inside of headrest posts, but given that that's not an option on F8x cars, I'll settle for the above solution and use my hands for steering, instead of holding on for dear life.

YMMV,
a

[JMon]

I have the defender HANS system and it has little wings that help keep the belts in place. May aid with any belt slippage concern. I've had to do an emergency "fire exit" (Porsche) with it on and I can tell you, the belts don't slip off so easily even when loose.

On that stunt car, don't the hole cut throughs look rather low?

[JMon]

http://www.bryke.com/NecksGen1.html

Look at the bottom left picture carefully and you will see the wings.

[Candide13]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

4 point quikfits are ok at all BMW and PCA HDPEs

Not due to their kindness, but because the Quikfits are road legal

Thanks, good to hear! :thumbs:

What I am trying to achieve is a significant increase in comfort for HPDEs with no reduction in safety compared to the OEM 3-belts, all under the constraint that it's our family car, so no cages, harness bars etc.

Sounds like the Schroth Qukfit fits the bill.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Candide13

Thanks, good to hear! :thumbs:

What I am trying to achieve is a significant increase in comfort for HPDEs with no reduction in safety compared to the OEM 3-belts, all under the constraint that it's our family car, so no cages, harness bars etc.

Sounds like the Schroth Qukfit fits the bill.

Just to clarify, they're accepted then the belt is made for the car and the oem seat.

You may get away with other combinations, but you've been warned!

[JMon]

afadeev,
Is this the one you say works well? FOR 2007+ MINI
Is there any reason why you say this one over the one for the BMW E82/E90/E92

I like the fact that it has a buckle in the center point to make sure the straps stay close together behind you and don't slip down. Also like the fact that it is HANS strap width compatible.
https://www.schrothracing.com/tuning...it-pro/qfp-bmw
Also see video in the link above... Now it does have detachable headrest.

[JMon]

What about using the Schroth Quick Connect with a retainer strap made out of seat belt material on the front side of the seat, but behind your head? I would think that would eliminate any possibilities of "slippage" possibilities.

[FrenchBoy]

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation why BMW decided to ship a car, which is undoubtedly used at a significant rate at track days, without 4/5-point harness pass-throughs? The US-spec M4 GTS doesn't even come with them, which is hard to believe.

Even the Cadillac ATS-V has a seat designed to accommodate a harness, so clearly regulations allow for them.

That's honestly what's holding me back from upgrading my E90 M3.

Thanks

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation why BMW decided to ship a car, which is undoubtedly used at a significant rate at track days, without 4/5-point harness pass-throughs? The US-spec M4 GTS doesn't even come with them, which is hard to believe.

Even the Cadillac ATS-V has a seat designed to accommodate a harness, so clearly regulations allow for them.

That's honestly what's holding me back from upgrading my E90 M3.

Thanks

We do not know what seats officially are coming on the M4 GTS for North America but believe we are getting a Hybrid seat with side airbags with proper a pass-through to accommodate a harness that will use the standard roll bar as the mounting point.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

We do not know what seats officially are coming on the M4 GTS for North America but believe we are getting a Hybrid seat with side airbags with proper a pass-through to accommodate a harness that will use the standard roll bar as the mounting point.

That remains to be seen, because the picture presently released of the GTS US seats do not seem to accommodate a 5/6 point harness.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That remains to be seen, because the picture presently released of the GTS US seats do not seem to accommodate a 5/6 point harness.

Hmm!I was told otherwise but I guess we will have to wait & see what will be coming in this car.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by tchiers

3-point belts allow a fair amount of torso movement by design. 4-, 5-, and 6- point systems hold you rigidly upright - also by design. The concern is that if you don't have a cage or at least a roll bar to provide rollover protection the roof of the car can crush down while the harness holds you upright, causing head, neck, and spine injuries. The 3-point is better in this scenario because it allows your torso to move out of the way.

Schroth Quick Fit PRO version has ASM technology and works with the female receptacles of the stock system.

In an accident, the stock systems discharge and pull the lap belts inward, while the inside shoulder strap of the quickfit pro (by way of ASM technology), loosens and releases, thereby acting like an OEM 3 point. This way, your torso bends forward, instead of your ass sliding under the lap belt.

You can wear a Hans device, be planted, but also have a DOT approved system.

I think it's a great alternative and is middle ground until at least a half cage and seats are installed.

[M3 Number 86]

There is also this if you want to stay locked in with your oem 3 point. The only thing I was concerned with this route was if it the belt was pretensioned, in an accident does the shoulder strap loosen up? If it doesn't then my neck would have snapped - I guess it is ok if you are close to the airbag but I wanted more neck snapping protection and went with an alternative that allowed me a Hans device.

[M3 Number 86]

delete - duplicate post.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by JMon

afadeev,
Is this the one you say works well? FOR 2007+ MINI
Is there any reason why you say this one over the one for the BMW E82/E90/E92

This is the set I ordered:
https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/produc...kfit-harnesses

From the drop-down menus, pick MINI / R566 / other choices are up to you.
Evidently, R56 MINIs share the exact same male/female seat belt buckles as E9x and F8x cars, making the belt system interchangeable.

To install, you first need to anchor two additional seat belt snap-in anchors. E90 DIY video is here:

Adjust the size of rear belts such that the cross rests right behind the front seat's head rest, and the shoulder belts have nowhere to go but stay securely on your shoulders under tension.

Do this at your own risk (don't try this at home, don't inhale, blah, blah).

Originally Posted by JMon

I like the fact that it has a buckle in the center point to make sure the straps stay close together behind you and don't slip down. Also like the fact that it is HANS strap width compatible.
https://www.schrothracing.com/tuning...it-pro/qfp-bmw
Also see video in the link above... Now it does have detachable headrest.

The belt with the buckle in your link should work just as well.
The one I got has permanently attached shoulder belts, and only the sides of the lap belt snap buckle together.

I would prefer the detachable head-rest, and routing shoulder belts inside the headrest posts (or better yet - in seat holes like those built into C63 and ATS-V seats), but that's sadly not an option on F8x cars.

YMMV,
More disclaimers here: http://www.jedihawk.com/jokes/misc/disclaimer.html

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by afadeev

This is the set I ordered:
https://www.hmsmotorsport.com/produc...kfit-harnesses

From the drop-down menus, pick MINI / R566 / other choices are up to you.
Evidently, R56 MINIs share the exact same male/female seat belt buckles as E9x and F8x cars, making the belt system interchangeable.

To install, you first need to anchor two additional seat belt snap-in anchors. E90 DIY video is here:

Adjust the size of rear belts such that the cross rests right behind the front seat's head rest, and the shoulder belts have nowhere to go but stay securely on your shoulders under tension.

Do this at your own risk (don't try this at home, don't inhale, blah, blah).




The belt with the buckle in your link should work just as well.
The one I got has permanently attached shoulder belts, and only the sides of the lap belt snap buckle together.

I would prefer the detachable head-rest, and routing shoulder belts inside the headrest posts (or better yet - in seat holes like those built into C63 and ATS-V seats), but that's sadly not an option on F8x cars.

YMMV,
More disclaimers here: http://www.jedihawk.com/jokes/misc/disclaimer.html

the install is the same for pro and non pro versions but the actual product being used is the one JMon is talking about.

Pro version you can use Hans since the shoulder straps merge to the middle.

And I agree, sucks about the seats. Looks like the only option is the swap them out.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

That remains to be seen, because the picture presently released of the GTS US seats do not seem to accommodate a 5/6 point harness.

It looks like you were right on the seats.I just spoke to my track safety supply guy and thinks this can be made to work properly by crisscrossing the belts as is required in most pro series.The worst thing is that I buy race seats so I can do a proper harness & hans setup.