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      12-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #133
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I still think YMB is a horrendous colour.

This car is awesome!
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      12-12-2013, 12:19 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savory View Post
No doubt the N54s and N55s had massive power potential. The difference here being this engine has a full factory warranty and has upgraded internals and cooling designed for 430+ hp (430 is likely conservative too). Those engines also were not known for their high rpm power delivery. They sort of die around 6000 RPM. We don't know the characteristics of the S55 just yet, but with a claimed 7600 rpm redline, I'm hoping M wouldn't let it limp it's way up there.
No worries. BPM and others will fix that.

I bet that before it's over the tuners will be able to get 530-550 crank out of it.

I'm leaning more on the sedan at this point but who knows. It will be a game time decision as to which quarterback I will go with and I'll likely wait until they start coming off lease till I get one.
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      12-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Nice to see some additional specs and media.

This car is going to offer a drivers race against a Porsche 911S (latest 991 variant) at least in a straight line and at do so for at least $25k less. I've been saying that all along and it will. It will be well below 3.9s 0-60 as well. The flip side is nice (and I think that means quite a lot coming from me...) new American cars like the Mustang are really stepping up their game (various higher end and yet to be officially announced versions) and will hang with or best the M4 for about the same amount of spend less! There will be many more solid competitors as well. First world problem we have for sure...

I should post some updated simulation results but they really have not changed much since this effort.

That's the good, here is some of the bad.

I'm disappointed that this engine appears to have much in common with the N54/N55. If it is not the exact parts it sure is the heart of the design and dimensions. Although I have not seen it confirmed nor denied yet, I strongly suspect it will also share the key bore spacing value with these older engines. Thus alas, we will not have the bespoke M engine we thought we might get with the S55. Call it what you like but this is an evolved N54 (recall that the N54 has both valvetronic, direct injection and twin turbos).

The car is stated to have 50% unique components compared to a standard 4 series. That is down MASSIVELY from the 80% number quoted for the prior E92 M3. As I've stated elsewhere the cars are becoming less special and cost is driving standardization.

Some other comments/observations on the OP:



I'd rather know the max permissible torque value over the maximum speed, much more relevant. Tell us how much more torque capacity it has over a similar steel unit (I know, that's a pipe dream type of request).




Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...



Cd and Area is provided in inline document from BMW. Cd is up quite a bit from 0.31 in the E92 to 0.34 in the M4.
True it will likely be close in a straight but def not on the track and not in terms of overall performance or as a drivers car. 991 is THE bar and by tw time the m3/4 is out the facelift 991 will be out packing even more benchmarking peformance and handling than it has although the two are not competitors. I'd be getting a 991 if it weren't for my fiancé and I having a baby and we already have 3 cars and my e92 m3 replacement is going to be an m3 or Macan turbo but likely m3 since we already have one SUV.

Same could be said that a mustang or ctvs or c7 could also be competitor or beat the m3 for 25-30k less. Price is not a good way to compare seeing as porsche makes a premium product over bmw just as bmw makes a product with premium over ford/Chevy/caddy.

I still don't believe the weight until a car mag actually weighs it with all options and tech.
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      12-12-2013, 12:35 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
True it will likely be close in a straight but def not on the track and not in terms of overall performance or as a drivers car. 991 is THE bar and by tw time the m3/4 is out the facelift 991 will be out packing even more benchmarking peformance and handling than it has although the two are not competitors. I'd be getting a 991 if it weren't for my fiancé and I having a baby and we already have 3 cars and my e92 m3 replacement is going to be an m3 or Macan turbo but likely m3 since we already have one SUV.

Same could be said that a mustang or ctvs or c7 could also be competitor or beat the m3 for 25-30k less. Price is not a good way to compare seeing as porsche makes a premium product over bmw just as bmw makes a product with premium over ford/Chevy/caddy.

I still don't believe the weight until a car mag actually weighs it with all options and tech.

I think only the Mustang will be $25-30k less. I think the regular Mustang will still be notches down to the F80, and when you get to the future specialty models like the Boss(which will likely approach $50k) and the Shelby($60k) the cost differential is largely eroded. The CTS-V will be big money as the CTS-VSport is $60k and more sized like the M5. So that will leave the ATS-V which if they are smart will start at $55-57k, undercutting the M3 by about $5-7k. A bit of conjecture on my part, but we'll see.
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      12-12-2013, 01:15 PM   #137
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Mitsubishi Turbos

I find it insulting that a car of this caliber has Japanese engine components.
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      12-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Cabrio View Post
I find it insulting that a car of this caliber has Japanese engine components.
I guess you won't be buying the BMW Toyota supercar then.
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      12-12-2013, 01:21 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3V8Cabrio View Post
I find it insulting that a car of this caliber has Japanese engine components.
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?

edit: For the sake of noobs who do not know much about turbos...

When you want pizza, you go to a pizza place, when you want steak you go to a steak house. Turbos, there are only a few well established manufacturers. When you want a reliable turbo from an specific manufacturer, Mitsubishi is a great place to go.

IHI=Japanese, very common on a variety of cars including the Ferrari F40
Mitsubishi=Japanese, again very common, on a variety of cars including my old Saab Viggen-a Swedish car
Garret=US company, even some Nisans+ Saabs had them even some GM cars like the McLaren Pontiac Grand Prix which had a T25

There are others, such as Holset which are more common on big Diesel products.

Point is, you go for the component that is specialized by a manufacturer. This stupidity about the country of origin for the turbo of your German car is not a place to have a concern about origin. Go find some German turbos for your German cars...see how that works out for you.
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Last edited by Jamesons Viggen; 12-12-2013 at 01:43 PM..
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      12-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?
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      12-12-2013, 01:38 PM   #141
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Looking very good.

This car is not going to disappoint.
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      12-12-2013, 01:42 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?

edit: For the sake of noobs who do not know much about turbos...

When you want pizza, you go to a pizza place, when you want streak you go to a steak house. Turbos, there are only a few well established manufacturers.

IHI=Japanese, very common on a variety of cars including the Ferrari F40
Mitsubishi=Japanese, again very common, on a variety of cars including my old Saab Viggen-a Swedish car
Garret=US company, even some Nisans+ Saabs had them even some GM cars like the McLaren Pontiac Grand Prix which had a T25

There are others, such as Holset which are more common on big Diesel products.

Point is, you go for the component that is specialized by a manufacturer.
EXACTLY! I am truly amazed how ignorant people are these days. "I'm not buyin' that shit.......it wasn't made in (insert country) and I am a got dang patriot!"
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      12-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?

edit: For the sake of noobs who do not know much about turbos...

When you want pizza, you go to a pizza place, when you want steak you go to a steak house. Turbos, there are only a few well established manufacturers. When you want a reliable turbo from an specific manufacturer, Mitsubishi is a great place to go.

IHI=Japanese, very common on a variety of cars including the Ferrari F40
Mitsubishi=Japanese, again very common, on a variety of cars including my old Saab Viggen-a Swedish car
Garret=US company, even some Nisans+ Saabs had them even some GM cars like the McLaren Pontiac Grand Prix which had a T25

There are others, such as Holset which are more common on big Diesel products.

Point is, you go for the component that is specialized by a manufacturer. This stupidity about the country of origin for the turbo of your German car is not a place to have a concern about origin. Go find some German turbos for your German cars...see how that works out for you.
I wouldn't even bother talking to these clowns man. Bunch of snobs that know absolutely nothing about cars. Just how to show up to a dealership and sign papers.
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      12-12-2013, 01:49 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I wouldn't even bother talking to these clowns man. Bunch of snobs that know absolutely nothing about cars. Just how to show up to a dealership and sign papers.
True, I just have hopes that 1 out of 100 uneducated doofs reads such a thing and goes forth into the world and thinks again before saying stupid things.

These people go to car meets and get-togethers, BMW owners have a bad enough rap as it is. I can be an asshole, but at least I know where good turbo-chargers come from
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      12-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #145
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So ... how does the M4 compare? Can we do a side by side of these cars?



.
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      12-12-2013, 02:17 PM   #146
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Can't get enough of these cars. wasted so much time today just looking through everything
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      12-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?

edit: For the sake of noobs who do not know much about turbos...

When you want pizza, you go to a pizza place, when you want steak you go to a steak house. Turbos, there are only a few well established manufacturers. When you want a reliable turbo from an specific manufacturer, Mitsubishi is a great place to go.

IHI=Japanese, very common on a variety of cars including the Ferrari F40
Mitsubishi=Japanese, again very common, on a variety of cars including my old Saab Viggen-a Swedish car
Garret=US company, even some Nisans+ Saabs had them even some GM cars like the McLaren Pontiac Grand Prix which had a T25

There are others, such as Holset which are more common on big Diesel products.

Point is, you go for the component that is specialized by a manufacturer. This stupidity about the country of origin for the turbo of your German car is not a place to have a concern about origin. Go find some German turbos for your German cars...see how that works out for you.
Lighten up Francis, I think he was joking and be sarcastic. I got a chuckle out of it.
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      12-12-2013, 02:29 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
If this has not already been posted, I ran the simple calc.

Manual M4 = 1,497 kg/317 kW = 4.72 kg/kW
DCT M4 = X/317 = 4.84 kg/kW
Solving for X, 4.84 x 317 = 1,534 kg

So, DCT is 37 kg or 81.6 lb heavier than manual tranny. Sounds about right.

I think that sounds about right also.....given the info we have at the moment. The performance advantage of the DCT is getting smaller and smaller. A couple of things are interesting to me: First there is rumor that there will be a light weight M3 version come out and that they will use the 6 speed manual only where they used the DCT in the E92 GTS/CRT. A flip in philosophy? Second they are putting some type of paddle shift trans in the new M235 race car. That would be a game changer if they can develop a DCT that can handle racing.
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      12-12-2013, 02:32 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
Lighten up Francis, I think he was joking and be sarcastic. I got a chuckle out of it.
If you read this whole thread, you would see people have said similar things and were not kidding.
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      12-12-2013, 03:07 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
True, I just have hopes that 1 out of 100 uneducated doofs reads such a thing and goes forth into the world and thinks again before saying stupid things.

These people go to car meets and get-togethers, BMW owners have a bad enough rap as it is. I can be an asshole, but at least I know where good turbo-chargers come from
This. And thank you. Keep us educated. I am also sick of people stating info as facts when they are wrong. I cannot stand these people in real life they exude a massive sense of insecurity and immaturity by making blanket statements and putting words in peoples mouths.

Classic annoying idiots. I do not salute them
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      12-12-2013, 03:11 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 325rider View Post
This. And thank you. Keep us educated. I am also sick of people stating info as facts when they are wrong. I cannot stand these people in real life they exude a massive sense of insecurity and immaturity by making blanket statements and putting words in peoples mouths.

Classic annoying idiots. I do not salute them
Jeesus how true is that statement? I know people like this but they are not good friends because of it.
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      12-12-2013, 03:28 PM   #152
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Does this seem dubious to anyone else?

Quote:
Front seats visually inspired by bucket seats, with illuminated M logo on seat backrests.

Cheers.
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      12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Again, statements like this show a lack of understanding in how cars are produced.

You think the Ferrari F40 has Italian turbos?

edit: For the sake of noobs who do not know much about turbos...

When you want pizza, you go to a pizza place, when you want steak you go to a steak house. Turbos, there are only a few well established manufacturers. When you want a reliable turbo from an specific manufacturer, Mitsubishi is a great place to go.

IHI=Japanese, very common on a variety of cars including the Ferrari F40
Mitsubishi=Japanese, again very common, on a variety of cars including my old Saab Viggen-a Swedish car
Garret=US company, even some Nisans+ Saabs had them even some GM cars like the McLaren Pontiac Grand Prix which had a T25

There are others, such as Holset which are more common on big Diesel products.

Point is, you go for the component that is specialized by a manufacturer. This stupidity about the country of origin for the turbo of your German car is not a place to have a concern about origin. Go find some German turbos for your German cars...see how that works out for you.
ouch truth hurts doesn't it?
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      12-12-2013, 03:42 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Saves 11 lb over what exactly? The current M3 has a full aluminum front suspension (and subframe). More BMW marketing BS...
I'm pretty sure they mean the F80/F82's aluminum front suspension is 11lbs lighter than the standard F30/F32.

11lbs lighter than the E90/E92 M3 would be amazing.
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