I weighed my 2015 M4 and 2017 M4 ZCP at the same time

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Then your E92 was really heavy ... or did it come with moonroof?
German sport auto had weighed E92 M3 ZCP with DCT several times ... they all were in the range 1630 - 1640kg (3590 - 3612 lbs)
Measurement was with full tank and cars were with leather and high audio options...

Comparably the F8x weight was about 20-30kgs lighter than E92, but each time with the CCB.
Without CCB F8x and E9x M seem quite similar...

My E92 had the CF roof, but was pretty much loaded in terms of options.

Note that the CCB on the F8X reduce the static weight by about 8kg.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by Rocklobster

Maybe i'm just weird but these days i can feel 100lbs as if it was 100hp. My M4s both felt/feel significantly faster when the tank is near empty vs full.

um yea, 100+tq added will tend to make it feel that way lol

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by SROC5

sometimes I think we're all talking to ourselves when we claim the M4 lighter weight is significant compared to a E92 M3. Ultimately, we're only talking about around 100 pounds.

+100 on engines between S65 vs. S55. S65 was a masterpiece.

While I am all for weight reduction, I tend to agree with you. I never felt like my E92 was a bloated pig like so many claim. It had much better handling than my E46 did despite the ~135 additional lbs and a much more powerful engine that easily overcame the added weight. One thing they had in common was the soul of their engines, the S54 and S65 both felt very special.

My F82 is an even better car than my E92 was. It is a more comfortable daily driver and a much better track car. The chassis is vastly improved and the engine makes more power more of the time. One thing I find lacking in my M4 though, is the soul of the engine. While it makes great power, the S55 does not make me tingle as the S54 and S65 did.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

While I am all for weight reduction, I tend to agree with you. I never felt like my E92 was a bloated pig like so many claim. It had much better handling than my E46 did despite the ~135 additional lbs and a much more powerful engine that easily overcame the added weight. One thing they had in common was the soul of their engines, the S54 and S65 both felt very special.

My F82 is an even better car than my E92 was. It is a more comfortable daily driver and a much better track car. The chassis is vastly improved and the engine makes more power more of the time. One thing I find lacking in my M4 though, is the soul of the engine. While it makes great power, the S55 does not make me tingle as the S54 and S65 did.

yes, for me revving out the NA engines just had a soul stirring satisfaction to it that these turbo engines do not have no matter how much hp/tq you add.

[redpriest]

Kind of crazy to me. With Akra exhaust + AP Racing BBK being my only significant weight reduction in my E92 DCT, it came in at 3545 lbs without me in it, and 1/2 tank of fuel. This was with full interior.

[badbimmer]

Originally Posted by Draper

No disagreement there - the E90 sounds much better than the F80. Period.

For me personally, living at altitude (6k with regular trips to 11k), I found the E90 heavy and underpowered. The F80 is light years better.

I'll take FI over displacement any day of the week.

NA and Displacement > FI. With FI there is turbo lag.

There is certainly turbo lag in these cars.

F9x was a Symphony of sounds. The S65 is a real masterpiece.

F8x very dissapointing in this area.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by badbimmer

Displacement always > FI. With FI there is turbo lag.

There is certainly turbo lag in these cars.

F9x was a Symphony of sounds. The S65 is a real masterpiece.

F8x very dissapointing in this area.

Displacement will never be able to overcome altitude, but FI can...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Kind of crazy to me. With Akra exhaust + AP Racing BBK being my only significant weight reduction in my E92 DCT, it came in at 3545 lbs without me in it, and 1/2 tank of fuel. This was with full interior.

That puts it right at 3600lb with a full tank. Still relatively light compared to mine.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

While I am all for weight reduction, I tend to agree with you. I never felt like my E92 was a bloated pig like so many claim. It had much better handling than my E46 did despite the ~135 additional lbs and a much more powerful engine that easily overcame the added weight. One thing they had in common was the soul of their engines, the S54 and S65 both felt very special.

My F82 is an even better car than my E92 was. It is a more comfortable daily driver and a much better track car. The chassis is vastly improved and the engine makes more power more of the time. One thing I find lacking in my M4 though, is the soul of the engine. While it makes great power, the S55 does not make me tingle as the S54 and S65 did.

This is the definitive summary of the F8x, putting it in context with other M3s. Most capable M3 ever, no soul.

[Rocklobster]

Originally Posted by SROC5

um yea, 100+tq added will tend to make it feel that way lol

Are you mixing up weight and torque? I'm not talking at all about torque although with all this talk about "turbo lag" it could be pointed out that the area under the curve increase with a turbocharger (or 2) overcomes the instant response of an N/A motor by a factor of at least 3 in just about any test measuring performance.

I was simply saying that in my book weight reduction has a much more significant impact on performance than most people think. Every time i fill up my M4 it feels like it's lost power to my butt dyno.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

This is the definitive summary of the F8x, putting it in context with other M3s. Most capable M3 ever, no soul.

I feel like mine has plenty of soul. I guess we all define "soul" differently. Of all of my previous M3's, the only other one that I enjoyed as much was my '05 Interlagos Blue ZCP M3. Something about that car just made me smile so much. No other M3 other than my current/previous M4 made me smile as much. I never miss my E9X M3's at all.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Rocklobster

I was simply saying that in my book weight reduction has a much more significant impact on performance than most people think. Every time i fill up my M4 it feels like it's lost power to my butt dyno.

In terms of straight line acceleration, 100lb on the F8X is equivalent to ~12hp.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I feel like mine has plenty of soul. I guess we all define "soul" differently. Of all of my previous M3's, the only other one that I enjoyed as much was my '05 Interlagos Blue ZCP M3. Something about that car just made me smile so much. No other M3 other than my current/previous M4 made me smile as much. I never miss my E9X M3's at all.

yeah, it's interesting that way ... even my wife who doesn't sport drive said the E9x had a distinct personality and didn't like life below 50 MPH - the personality was tangible in the E9x. She loves the F8x and thinks it's "cute" and "mellow".

The F8x deserves its "clinical" and "digital" labels to me. It's great, but it's a great robot, and it also has this weird thing where it's a bland commuter car up to pretty high levels of performance and then suddenly it's an alive crazed animal, but only at the highest end of performance - at least for my driving skill. That's versus the E9x which was always alive feeling, but never got truly crazy.

The F8x is like living with an alcoholic girlfriend: she's either passed out or scaring the shit out of you.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

yeah, it's interesting that way ... even my wife who doesn't sport drive said the E9x had a distinct personality and didn't like life below 50 MPH - the personality was tangible in the E9x. She loves the F8x and thinks it's "cute" and "mellow".

The F8x deserves its "clinical" and "digital" labels to me. It's great, but it's a great robot, and it also has this weird thing where it's a bland commuter car up to pretty high levels of performance and then suddenly it's an alive crazed animal, but only at the highest end of performance - at least for my driving skill. That's versus the E9x which was always alive feeling, but never got truly crazy.

The F8x is like living with an alcoholic girlfriend: she's either passed out or scaring the shit out of you.

Completely agree - when you are putting around town you can get astonishing speed pretty quickly but it doesn't feel like you're working hard to do it. If you did that in the E92 you would know immediately (as long as you weren't short shifting and winded it out like you should).

Only on the track can you experience how tremendously capable the car is out of the box.

[badbimmer]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Displacement will never be able to overcome altitude, but FI can...

I dont live in the Rockies Lol. Doesnt make it better...

[Rocklobster]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

In terms of straight line acceleration, 100lb on the F8X is equivalent to ~12hp.

Thanks. I was just offering my own personal qualitative experience.

[MRV99]

I have found myself driving the F80 completely different than my E90. I agree the s65 was a great motor and was amazing when you wind it up. I found myself always staying in a lower gear and shifting around 5k constantly. On the track it was marvelous winding it up to 8xxx and keeping it in the sweet range of the RPM's.

Now that I have spent a few months in the F80 the torque is just amazing. The motor winds up so effortlessly and it just feels like a rocket ship. I have no problem loafing around 2k because I know if I just put some throttle into it it will just take off. I have yet to be on track yet but even driving in a slightly spirited style the car feels very predictable. I can immediately feel when it wants to step out and feel like I can find that limit a bit quicker and more predictable. I am getting more excited that I will soon be able to ditch my winters and put some summer wheels to enjoy it even more.

I think these cars are similar but different and that what makes them so special. The evolution is what I enjoy.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

yeah, it's interesting that way ... even my wife who doesn't sport drive said the E9x had a distinct personality and didn't like life below 50 MPH - the personality was tangible in the E9x. She loves the F8x and thinks it's "cute" and "mellow".

The F8x deserves its "clinical" and "digital" labels to me. It's great, but it's a great robot, and it also has this weird thing where it's a bland commuter car up to pretty high levels of performance and then suddenly it's an alive crazed animal, but only at the highest end of performance - at least for my driving skill. That's versus the E9x which was always alive feeling, but never got truly crazy.

The F8x is like living with an alcoholic girlfriend: she's either passed out or scaring the shit out of you.

Originally Posted by redpriest

Completely agree - when you are putting around town you can get astonishing speed pretty quickly but it doesn't feel like you're working hard to do it. If you did that in the E92 you would know immediately (as long as you weren't short shifting and winded it out like you should).

Only on the track can you experience how tremendously capable the car is out of the box.

Well...we are all individuals, so your perspectives have merit. I just am not as romantic about my E9X's as you guys are. I loved all 3 of them, but they just weren't memorable to me.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

This is the definitive summary of the F8x, putting it in context with other M3s. Most capable M3 ever, no soul.

I'm going to disagree here. While the E9x and S65 engine had soul in spades - to say the F8x has none is completely opposite of my own experience. Excluding sound, the way the F8x accelerates, corners flat, slams through the gears, can powerslide much more at will, etc. makes it feel like it has more "soul" in those respects vs. the E9x.

Seems to me that people often define "soul" as 90% sound, with all other factors combined representing the remaining 10%. First, the "civic" M3/M4 with the version 58.3 software update makes the sound vastly improved. Excluding sound, again - the F8x is far more exciting to drive - and there is no way I'd go back to the E9x over the F8x even if both cars kept their stock exhaust sounds.

Either way - glad I had a chance to experience both generations!

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

While the E9x and S65 engine had soul in spades ... the way the F8x accelerates, corners flat, slams through the gears, can powerslide much more at will, etc. makes it feel like it has more "soul" in those respects vs. the E9x.

Interesting that you didn't say who the F8x was and/or what it feels like, but rather what it can do.

Example:

"So tell me about your wife"
"well, she can clean way faster than my previous girlfriend and she's better in the sack too"

Just an observation as there's no right answer here.

It's like asking which headphones are the best - everyone hears different stuff. That said, the right answer is the Bowers & Wilkens P7 wireless.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Interesting that you didn't say who the F8x was and/or what it feels like, but rather what it can do.

Example:

"So tell me about your wife"
"well, she can clean way faster than my previous girlfriend and she's better in the sack too"

Just an observation as there's no right answer here.

It's like asking which headphones are the best - everyone hears different stuff. That said, the right answer is the Bowers & Wilkens P7 wireless.

Fair enough. The E9x is a very attractive woman - 8/10 in looks department with a great singing voice. The F8x is an even more attractive woman (9+/10) who is even better in the sack than the E9x, but whose voice doesn't sound quite as good...

[The Choosey begger]

I like the S55 better than the S65, much much better cooling system and low end torque.
Better fuel mileage, I like how it sounds too, i've owned both engines.